Football Should the NFL overtime rules be changed? - Page 13

Deberg_1990 · 09-21-2014, 08:30 PM

Forehead did not seem pleased.....

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawk...post22xml.html

The winner of a classic football game should never be determined by pure, dumb luck.
Unlike the Super Bowl, the only difference Sunday between the Broncos and Seattle was a flip of the coin. “We felt like we were the better team,” Broncos defensive tackle Terrance Knighton said.

Not to take anything away from the Seahawks’ 26-20 overtime victory against Denver, but if there’s anything we’ve learned from the NFL of late, it’s this: What’s fair got to do with anything in this league? And the more the rules change, the less we trust that justice is truly being served.

After Denver rallied from a 14-point deficit in the fourth quarter on the road in the NFL’s rowdiest stadium, the silence of stunned Seahawks fans was deafening as quarterback Peyton Manning represented the Broncos on the coin flip to determine which team would get the football to begin overtime.
Manning called tails.
The Seahawks won.
NFL overtime rules are stupid.

“It puts a premium on the coin toss,” Manning said. “I called tails at the beginning of the game, and went with it again in overtime. It was heads, and it proved to be a significant call. But that’s the way it is. And you’d like to not leave it to that, leave it to get to that situation.”
Manning was forced to stand and watch as Seattle marched 80 yards for a touchdown on the opening possession of overtime. No doubt, Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson was fantastic on the game-winning drive. When a fierce 6-yard run by Marshawn Lynch gave sudden death to Denver’s remarkable comeback, Broncos linebacker Nate Irving and his defensive teammates were so emotionally stunned their feet no longer seemed to work. They stood near the goal line, nobody wanting to go home.
Did this qualify as a moral victory after the 43-8 blowout in the Super Bowl? Knighton certainly didn’t want a juice box and a condescending pat on the head. “You either win or you lose ... We’re not saying, ‘At least the score is better than the Super Bowl’ or anything like that,” Knighton insisted.

Manning has become known in Denver, thanks to imaginative T-shirt makers and excitable fans, as PFM. Maybe I’ve finally figured out what those three letters mean: Pray for miracles.
In the hands of Manning, miracles happen.
While the NFL’s most beautiful mind was stumped by the Seahawks for the vast majority of four quarters and Denver’s offensive game plan appeared so simplistic you might have wondered if it had been written in crayon, Manning willed the Broncos 80 yards in the final 59 seconds of the fourth quarter to tie the game, despite the hindrance of no timeouts to stop the clock.

Manning hit a wide-open Jacob Tamme with a 26-yard pass for the touchdown, then found Demaryius Thomas against Seattle cornerback Richard Sherman to convert the essential two points after the TD.
Prayer answered.

“That’s what makes him Peyton Manning,” said Wilson, with obvious respect for one of the NFL’s elder statesmen. “That’s what makes him one of the best quarterbacks ever to play the game.”

Then, however, Manning was forced to sit and watch overtime. Maybe NFL commissioner Roger Goodell should have bought Manning a pretzel and beer. In 2012, the league amended its overtime rules to allow each team to possess the ball at least once in the extra period, unless a touchdown is scored on the opening drive by the lucky bums who win the coin flip.
That’s stupid. Let’s simplify the rules: If the teams have fought into an overtime, haven’t both teams earned the right to touch the football at least once?

Yes, Tim Tebow gave Denver fans one of the biggest playoff thrills in franchise history by beating Pittsburgh in overtime on an 80-yard bolt from the blue.
But has Hollywood ever required Denzel Washington or Harrison Ford to sit out the last reel when things got dicey and the audience prayed for a miracle from the movie’s hero?
“We’re not going to change the rules,” said Broncos cornerback Chris Harris Jr. “But I would’ve liked our chances if we got our ‘O’ back out there.”
Fade to black.

**alnorth** · 09-22-2014, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Except that a TD+1 doesn't end the game, you're ignoring that. I think that more or less balances out removing the FG-FG scenario.

It does not.

Opening-drive TD's are not nearly as common as opening-drive FG.

Even if they were, the difference between automatic win for TD vs almost-automatic win for TD isn't much of a difference. The difference between being able to match FG for FG and now having to beat the FG is very large.

Your system would crown the winner of the coin flip a lot more often than the current system.

Mennonite · 09-22-2014, 05:15 PM

Play one extra quarter. If they are still tied after that, it comes down to a sudden death QB forehead girth measurement contest.

/Broncos fan

suzzer99 · 09-22-2014, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth

It does not.

Opening-drive TD's are not nearly as common as opening-drive FG.

Even if they were, the difference between automatic win for TD vs almost-automatic win for TD isn't much of a difference. The difference between being able to match FG for FG and now having to beat the FG is very large.

Your system would crown the winner of the coin flip a lot more often than the current system.

Do you have any data to back that up? I'm on plane right now, I can look up probabilities later.

Also weren't you just arguing the coin flip should mean something? Even assuming this adds to the meaning of the coin flip why is the current system the perfect amount of coin flip impact?

From the POV of the fans, the perceived impact of the coin flip would certainly be less under my plan, because at least their team gets a chance on offense.

GoChargers · 09-22-2014, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Do you have any data to back that up?

Well, out of 41 overtimes played under the current rules, only 7 opening-drive TD's have been scored by the team that gets the ball first. That's a 17% success rate. Under the previous overtime rules, I don't have the exact stat, but IIRC approximately 22% of overtimes were won on an opening-drive field goal. I know for a fact it was in the 20's. So yes, FG's are more common.

GoChargers · 09-22-2014, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mennonite

Award Fivehead's team the win if it's tied after regulation.

/Broncos fans and media

fify

Mennonite · 09-22-2014, 05:23 PM

The coin flip is where the "unfairness" seems to come from.

What if instead of an overtime period that begins with a coin flip, you just continue the game from where it was when the fourth quarter ended?

If it's the end of the fourth quarter and Team A is on the opponents 10 yard line, let the over time period begin with the same situation. Or if Team A just scored a td to tie the game as time expired, let the OT period begin with them kicking off to Team B. Sudden death.

Nobody gets screwed by a random coin flip. And the game isn't altered like in college football.

ThaVirus · 09-22-2014, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I didn't watch it, but I'm assuming they meant any other team than the Seahawks, not any other team than the Broncos.

By the way, there were 90 roughing the passer penalties in 2013. Not a single one was called for a hit on Manning, so it's not like they are more likely to call it for Denver.

Yeah, they were basically saying that the league allows the Seahawks defense to get away with extra physical contact.

**alnorth** · 09-22-2014, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Do you have any data to back that up? I'm on plane right now, I can look up probabilities later.

Also weren't you just arguing the coin flip should mean something? Even assuming this adds to the meaning of the coin flip why is the current system the perfect amount of coin flip impact?

From the POV of the fans, the perceived impact of the coin flip would certainly be less under my plan, because at least their team gets a chance on offense.

Even if they were equally likely, that doesn't matter. The difference between automatically winning for a TD vs almost automatically winning for a TD is very small. The difference between matching FG for FG and not being allowed to do that is huge.

If you forbid the 2nd team from matching the first FG, you are going to give a tremendous advantage to winning the coin flip, a lot more than the current system. You just are.

A better version of your idea would have had this rule: only 1 extra point can be scored in overtime.

**alnorth** · 09-22-2014, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Even assuming this adds to the meaning of the coin flip why is the current system the perfect amount of coin flip impact?

As for what I want, and why I think the current system is perfect, lets get back to first principles.

The #1 priority here is to keep the game at four quarters, or have as little OT as possible, while still producing an outcome we can live with. Not an outcome we are thrilled with, but merely one we won't complain about much.

This takes priority over everything else. The threat of injury is very real, and we don't want to play an unnecessary amount of extra football.

Secondary to this, is that we also don't like it when the coin flip has a heavy impact on the winner. This is kinda related to the first priority in that it can lead to an outcome we won't accept. This desire does not overrule the first priority. Perfectly-fair overtime would mean we play extra quarters until someone wins. They are not equal priorities, either, the first priority is a lot more important.

The first system under the #1 priority is no overtime, and allow ties. We don't like ties. This results in outcomes that we do not accept, even grudgingly. So, we are forced to dip into the dangerous world of OT.

The second system is sudden death. This is the smallest amount of OT we can have. However, winning the toss had a huge impact on the game and the coinflip-FG was so annoying it led to outcomes we were no longer able to accept.

The system we have now is the smallest amount of OT we can have that is still longer than the 2nd system. It is perfect. Your system possibly also leads to a similarly-short OT, but it is inferior to the current system in that it rewards the coin-flip winner more than the current system.

We don't need to make the coin flip meaningless, but as a tiebreaker, the current system beats your idea.

Pasta Little Brioni · 09-22-2014, 05:44 PM

Games rarely end in OT on the first possession. Denver can only blame that God awful defense.

ILChief · 09-22-2014, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsBrandon

31 teams in the league would take that "choker" in a heartbeat.

Not True, the following teams would not take him if it meant replacing their current starter (and due to $$$ it would):

Definitely wouldn't
-----------
Seattle
Indianapolis (hell, they had him and chose Luck)
New England
New Orleans
Green Bay
Atlanta

Probably wouldn't
------------
Atlanta
San Diego
Pittsburgh

Maybe wouldn't
-------------
Baltimore
Philadelphia
San Francisco

Sweet Daddy Hate · 09-22-2014, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsBrandon

31 teams in the league would take that "choker" in a heartbeat.

Until the brightest of lights come on.

Then they'd wanna' swap out for his brother.

crazycoffey · 09-22-2014, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13

Here's an idea, play defense. But we wouldn't want to do that.

How about scoring more points in the first 4 quarters.....

GloryDayz · 09-22-2014, 07:01 PM

Wrong board, the NFL will ask the OrangeMange then decide...

crazycoffey · 09-22-2014, 07:01 PM

If only bronco fans would've saved their petition for this /simms

09-21-2014, 08:30 PM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $3464454	Should the NFL overtime rules be changed? Forehead did not seem pleased..... http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawk...post22xml.html The winner of a classic football game should never be determined by pure, dumb luck. Unlike the Super Bowl, the only difference Sunday between the Broncos and Seattle was a flip of the coin. “We felt like we were the better team,” Broncos defensive tackle Terrance Knighton said. Not to take anything away from the Seahawks’ 26-20 overtime victory against Denver, but if there’s anything we’ve learned from the NFL of late, it’s this: What’s fair got to do with anything in this league? And the more the rules change, the less we trust that justice is truly being served. After Denver rallied from a 14-point deficit in the fourth quarter on the road in the NFL’s rowdiest stadium, the silence of stunned Seahawks fans was deafening as quarterback Peyton Manning represented the Broncos on the coin flip to determine which team would get the football to begin overtime. Manning called tails. The Seahawks won. NFL overtime rules are stupid. “It puts a premium on the coin toss,” Manning said. “I called tails at the beginning of the game, and went with it again in overtime. It was heads, and it proved to be a significant call. But that’s the way it is. And you’d like to not leave it to that, leave it to get to that situation.” Manning was forced to stand and watch as Seattle marched 80 yards for a touchdown on the opening possession of overtime. No doubt, Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson was fantastic on the game-winning drive. When a fierce 6-yard run by Marshawn Lynch gave sudden death to Denver’s remarkable comeback, Broncos linebacker Nate Irving and his defensive teammates were so emotionally stunned their feet no longer seemed to work. They stood near the goal line, nobody wanting to go home. Did this qualify as a moral victory after the 43-8 blowout in the Super Bowl? Knighton certainly didn’t want a juice box and a condescending pat on the head. “You either win or you lose ... We’re not saying, ‘At least the score is better than the Super Bowl’ or anything like that,” Knighton insisted. Manning has become known in Denver, thanks to imaginative T-shirt makers and excitable fans, as PFM. Maybe I’ve finally figured out what those three letters mean: Pray for miracles. In the hands of Manning, miracles happen. While the NFL’s most beautiful mind was stumped by the Seahawks for the vast majority of four quarters and Denver’s offensive game plan appeared so simplistic you might have wondered if it had been written in crayon, Manning willed the Broncos 80 yards in the final 59 seconds of the fourth quarter to tie the game, despite the hindrance of no timeouts to stop the clock. Manning hit a wide-open Jacob Tamme with a 26-yard pass for the touchdown, then found Demaryius Thomas against Seattle cornerback Richard Sherman to convert the essential two points after the TD. Prayer answered. “That’s what makes him Peyton Manning,” said Wilson, with obvious respect for one of the NFL’s elder statesmen. “That’s what makes him one of the best quarterbacks ever to play the game.” Then, however, Manning was forced to sit and watch overtime. Maybe NFL commissioner Roger Goodell should have bought Manning a pretzel and beer. In 2012, the league amended its overtime rules to allow each team to possess the ball at least once in the extra period, unless a touchdown is scored on the opening drive by the lucky bums who win the coin flip. That’s stupid. Let’s simplify the rules: If the teams have fought into an overtime, haven’t both teams earned the right to touch the football at least once? Yes, Tim Tebow gave Denver fans one of the biggest playoff thrills in franchise history by beating Pittsburgh in overtime on an 80-yard bolt from the blue. But has Hollywood ever required Denzel Washington or Harrison Ford to sit out the last reel when things got dicey and the audience prayed for a miracle from the movie’s hero? “We’re not going to change the rules,” said Broncos cornerback Chris Harris Jr. “But I would’ve liked our chances if we got our ‘O’ back out there.” Fade to black.
Posts: 66,914

09-22-2014, 05:15 PM	#182
Mennonite Veteran Join Date: Jun 2014 Casino cash: $10258572	Play one extra quarter. If they are still tied after that, it comes down to a sudden death QB forehead girth measurement contest. /Broncos fan
Posts: 3,378

09-22-2014, 05:23 PM	#186
Mennonite Veteran Join Date: Jun 2014 Casino cash: $10258572	The coin flip is where the "unfairness" seems to come from. What if instead of an overtime period that begins with a coin flip, you just continue the game from where it was when the fourth quarter ended? If it's the end of the fourth quarter and Team A is on the opponents 10 yard line, let the over time period begin with the same situation. Or if Team A just scored a td to tie the game as time expired, let the OT period begin with them kicking off to Team B. Sudden death. Nobody gets screwed by a random coin flip. And the game isn't altered like in college football.
Posts: 3,378

09-22-2014, 05:44 PM	#190
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $3448880	Games rarely end in OT on the first possession. Denver can only blame that God awful defense. __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 69,289

09-22-2014, 07:01 PM	#194
GloryDayz (Sir/Yes Sir/Aye Aye Sir) Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diving Casino cash: $3155380	Wrong board, the NFL will ask the OrangeMange then decide...
Posts: 116,407

09-22-2014, 07:01 PM	#195
crazycoffey .......... Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $5047901	If only bronco fans would've saved their petition for this /simms
Posts: 28,333