*** Official Youth, High School, College and International Wrestling Thread ***

[rico]

I can't be the only wrestling fan on this site. In fact, I know I that's not the case. The almighty king of n00bs, Sorter, is a wrestling fan. I figure there could be more.....????

Discuss anything wrestling related:

Youth wrestling: Heck, wrestling in Iowa has a rabid Youth wrestling scene...I lived through it, my younger brother lived through it and my brothers who are 15 and 13 are living through it, well the 13 year old is anyway...he's in high school. The 13 year old is a 7th grader who has been wrestling since he was 5 years old and has accumulated 4 state championships since his second grade year...a total badass. Believe it or not, Iowa has a youth wrestling forum that is hopping...even during the summer. Iowans take this stuff seriously. I'm assuming other states have rabid youth followings, for when I watch my bros at National tourneys, we are constantly running into kids and super clubs from other states that are amazing. Ironically, one of the biggest youth tourneys our club hits annually is the Park Hill Individual and Dual tournament...which to my knowledge is in Kansas City (I've never attended that one). Do any of you have kids who are wrestling? If so, how are they doing?

High School Wrestling: High school and college wrestling in Iowa is big... we are known for it, ask AC Slater. State tournament is a big, televised event at the Wells Fargo dome...you will see probably 10 times more spectators at state wrestling in Iowa then any other high school sporting event in Iowa. With some of the crazy talent I have seen/wrestled against at Fargo Nationals, I am assuming that it's either on the rise or just as big in other states as well... What are your thoughts on some of the high school wrestlers and/or teams out there?

College Wrestling: Hell, you Missourians semi-recently had those Askren brothers. I've never met Max, but have met Ben. He was the celebrity guest at Iowa Grade School State one year...he signed autographs and handed the medals and wall charts to all of the kids on the podium that year, which was cool because my youngest brother won it that year and was able to get his championship singlet signed by him. I was with my brother when he approached him....Askren struck me as a funny, goofy type of dude. I don't know Max, but someone posted his blog on an Iowa wrestling message board and the dude seems like a character. I know there are some Oklahomans' who post on this board. Anyone see Okie State defeat Iowa this past weekend? Iowa's first dual loss of the year. Anyone have any thoughts on college wrestling?

International Wrestling: Any of you have any thoughts on the international wrestling scene? Future Olympians, future Olympic champs, future World champs, Greco, Freestyle, etc.?

Wrestling Memories/General Discussion: Any of you have any memories you'd like to share from your personal experience(s) of wrestling when you were in youth, high school or college? Any opinions on females wrestling with males. Last year, a girl named Megan Black made history in Iowa by placing at state. Do you believe females should be able to wrestle with males at that age? Any thoughts on weight cutting? What are some of the most memorable matches to you? Who are your favorite wrestlers? One match that always sticks out to me is this:



Crazy match.

My favorite wrestler (besides my bros and former teammates) of all time is ironically not an Iowan. I don't really have a favorite team in wrestling...I root for individuals. It's a dude from Ohio that I initially hated because I didn't like the way he conducted himself after a match vs. my brother in the national duals when he and my brother were Seniors in High School, in which he defeated my brother. Kid was cocky. He and my brother both went on to wrestle D1, so I followed him since I knew who he was. I ended up becoming a huge fan of the kid's style...the kid could hit cradles from ANY position. He went on to win 2 National titles for Ohio State...and did so both years as an underdog, for he'd lose quite a few silly matches during the season, presumably due to his risky, but dangerous style that worked well for him at NCAA Nationals. It's a dude named Jeff Jaggers. First vid is what really put his name on the map as a high school wrestler. 2nd vid is his 1st NCAA championship as a Junior, in a match where he was a huge underdog, broke his ankle during the match and gutted it out and won. My favorite wrestlers tend to be the ones who are risk takers or brawlers...not afraid to be aggressive or take chances. I can't stand stallish wrestlers who are successful as hell simply because they don't open up and therefore don't give up points and score their own points by capitalizing on the other wrestler's aggression. Boring.






So what ya got?

Note: I have been posting on wrestling message boards for 12 years and I (and I'm sure everyone else involved with the sport) have heard every wrestling joke (rolling around with men, etc.) imaginable, but if ya want to clown on the sport, shoot... it was inevitable to happen anyways on CP, so have at it!

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Brianfo

Riding time is a skill that should be awarded. I agree that with some it's a stall tactic, but if you can't get out from underneath, you don't deserve to win. End of argument. If you get rode like a mule you lose!

Why do you think 90% of wrestlers choose down??

They need the point if they can get it...

I'm not lost on the point, but it's boring and keeps people from liking the sport, and it flies in the face of "action".

And at a minimum they need to make the standing ride a call for neutral. Keep the disadvantaged wrestler down and I can agree that you have to have been a wrestler to understand it. But if you let the guy get up and all you are, essentially, is a zit on his ass, well I have HUGE issues with that.

And back to the holding on to an ankle while you get dragged, and that's worse...

And last, you get one chance to have the circle's edge save you, after that it's fleeing... I get the tactic, I used it, but it's wrong and not a good thing.. Reward the guy who stay in the middle and invites a match, and penalize the guy who's willing to run out of bounds to save his ass..

[Brianfo]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

They need the point if they can get it...

I'm not lost on the point, but it's boring and keeps people from liking the sport, and it flies in the face of "action".

And at a minimum they need to make the standing ride a call for neutral. Keep the disadvantaged wrestler down and I can agree that you have to have been a wrestler to understand it. But if you let the guy get up and all you are, essentially, is a zit on his ass, well I have HUGE issues with that.

And back to the holding on to an ankle while you get dragged, and that's worse...

And last, you get one chance to have the circle's edge save you, after that it's fleeing... I get the tactic, I used it, but it's wrong and not a good thing.. Reward the guy who stay in the middle and invites a match, and penalize the guy who's willing to run out of bounds to save his ass..

Agree 100%. Holding onto the ankle and being drug around is stalling. No ifs ands or buts. There are some wrestlers out there that are tough riders and a hammer on top. Always looking to score. It's a slippery slope. As a former wrestler I want to see our sport survive and thrive.

Good commentary GloryDaze.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Brianfo

Agree 100%. Holding onto the ankle and being drug around is stalling. No ifs ands or buts. There are some wrestlers out there that are tough riders and a hammer on top. Always looking to score. It's a slippery slope. As a former wrestler I want to see our sport survive and thrive.

Good commentary GloryDaze.

The sport's survival is all I care about. and if it really leaves the Olympics, it'll be one of the worst man-made disasters EVER!

[rico]

Originally Posted by Brianfo

Ryan Morningstar is an assistant coach. Need I say more. That's where the problem starts. He's never been aggressive ever. He has my respect as he was a multiple all-American but boring as hell to watch. I'm with you Rico. Push the action. That's how I'm coaching my boys.

Ryan Morningstar was a highly anticipated wrestler from Lisbon coming in to high school...I think he won 5-6 AAU state titles as a youth wrestler. That along with the fact that his father was well-known for his accolades made him a pretty big freakin' deal coming in to high school.

Guess who he wrestled in his FIRST EVER wrestling match in high school? My brother...and it was at Lisbon High School.

Guess who won??? My brother. I was banging my chest and hootin' and hollerin' like a freaking caveman during that match. I probably looked like a fool. I think my brother won something like 6-3 or 6-4... it was somewhat of a barn-burner. Granted, my brother was the upperclassmen...and was a Junior who had been a runner-up at state as a Freshman and Sophomore (so close to winning it both years...ugh)...and was also the eventual 2A state champion that year... It was still a big win for him. Lisbon people mention it to me to this day. My brother and M* met up like 6 times over the years and M* won only 1 match...which was the last time they ever wrestled each other when my brother was a Senior. He beat him by 1 point with a last second crotch lift at Freestyle State that year...Justin was pretty pissed.

I am not sure when Morningstar became as defensive as he ultimately ended up building a reputation for being in college. He wasn't real offensive and/or stallish in high school or youth. He was definitely difficult to score points on, but he did have an offense that he went to and did well with it... I just think when the competition got stiffer at the D1 level for him, that's basically when he went into full-fledged defensive mode. He went from being one of Iowa's most highly touted and respected high school wrestlers to a wrestler who had some success for the Hawkeyes, but as most of us know, became mostly known as defensive/stallish.

[rico]

Originally Posted by Brianfo

Riding time is a skill that should be awarded. I agree that with some it's a stall tactic, but if you can't get out from underneath, you don't deserve to win. End of argument. If you get rode like a mule you lose!

Why do you think 90% of wrestlers choose down??

Man...remember when Jay Borschel won his national title his Senior season by riding the hell out of everyone? That kid was amazing. Won 4 state titles, his first one being at 103 lbs and his 4th one being all the way up at 171...unbelievable.

[rico]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

They need the point if they can get it...

I'm not lost on the point, but it's boring and keeps people from liking the sport, and it flies in the face of "action".

And at a minimum they need to make the standing ride a call for neutral. Keep the disadvantaged wrestler down and I can agree that you have to have been a wrestler to understand it. But if you let the guy get up and all you are, essentially, is a zit on his ass, well I have HUGE issues with that.

And back to the holding on to an ankle while you get dragged, and that's worse...

And last, you get one chance to have the circle's edge save you, after that it's fleeing... I get the tactic, I used it, but it's wrong and not a good thing.. Reward the guy who stay in the middle and invites a match, and penalize the guy who's willing to run out of bounds to save his ass..

Nice post, dude.

The fleeing just seems to gradually get worse and worse every year. Something needs to be done about it. Heck, I've seen successful youth wrestlers who have succeeded in using this tactic...kids as young as 4th grade. 4th graders are fleeing the mat and are being coached to do so. It's ridonkulous.

Gable commentated the semis and finals at the high school state tournament this year. It was obvious that he had to bite his tongue a few times during some of the matches when he observed this sort of thing going on. It was most noticeable when a kid named Kaz Onoo from Mason City was wrestling.

My 8th grade bro wrestled this kid at AAU state this year who backed up and backed up and backed up and backed up and backed up on his feet. I just told my bro to stalk the kid by continuously moving slowly towards him and the moment the kid neared the edge of the mat, to bull-rush him to push him out of bounds while simultaneously keeping his hands in front and staying on his toes. We did this to him 3 times in the first minute. After the 3rd time he did this, the ref warned the kid for stalling and the kid's corner and father (who was standing behind me) got PISSED. They heard me yelling at Brennan, "PUSH HIM OUT" right when the kid would get near the edge of the mat....they thought I was advising him to be dirty. In reality, all I wanted was to force that freaking kid to open up and basically force him to wrestle OUR match, not his... my brother is the epitome of aggressive/offensive...sometimes gets himself in trouble by being TOO aggressive. However, in scramble situations initiated by offensive wrestling, the kid is money and just puts kids away... As soon as this kid was forced to open up against us, that is when we racked the score up and ultimately ended up winning by like 11 points. This was vs. the kid who ended up placing 4th.

[rico]

On a sidenote, I don't know if I've ever posted this video on here or not, but I post it from time to time on wrestling forums because it is pretty comical, yet self-deprecating.

In the consol-semis at state in 2001, I took the mat against a kid from Creston named Cody Downing. If I won, I'd be going for 3rd and 4th, if I lost I'd be going for 5th and 6th.

I was real confused because the night before, after I lost my semifinal match vs. the eventual 3X state champ and future Hawkeye, Cole Pape, I walked over to the mat where Downing was wrestling the guy I beat handily 1st round. I was winning like 12-2 when I pinned the kid in the 2nd period my first match. Anyways, that kid (my first match) was beating Downing pretty badly going into the 3rd period. It was to the point where I thought it was a done deal...that I was going to have a rematch of my first round match, so I just walked off and pouted in the Vets basement over losing my Semis match vs. Pape.

With that said, I was really, really confused when I took the mat and saw this Creston kid, Downing walk on the mat. I stood there and thought, "what in the world is going on? Was there an injury late in this guy's match in the 3rd period that I didn't know about?" To that point, I had been preparing for a rematch of my 1st round match...I had no idea what had happened...turned out, Downing hit a left-sided sag headlock late in the match for the pin...I had no idea...I was too busy pouting when it took place.

Check out what happened when I wrestled Downing. I am the guy in the black and Downing is the guy in the red:



I...GOT...CAUGHT...IN...THE...WORST...HEADLOCK...EVER... Against a kid who I was wayyy better than. I mean, it was ridiculous. As you can see, there was no set-up...nothing...just a slow, deliberate headlock...I was MORTIFIED. I remember thinking to myself in the first minute or two of the match, "oh man, I got this in the bag. I'll be pissed if I don't pin this kid." Then boom...I was caught and pinned in a headlock....and I FREAKING DESERVED IT for failing to counter such a telegraphed move... I shit you not, from 1st grade until that point, I had NEVER been hit in a headlock...whether it be in a live match OR practice. I was NEVER susceptible to a headlock...and to think I got hit with such deliberate one with NO SET-UP in an important match at state is just.... it still just boggles my mind. I have no clue what happened or what kind of brain-lapse I had there.

I'm able to laugh it off today... so feel free to have some laughs at my expense.

Downing ended up doing pretty well at the D3 level...He was a national qualifier and may have come close to being a D3 All-American...probably a bunch of left-sided sag headlocks.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by rico

On a sidenote, I don't know if I've ever posted this video on here or not, but I post it from time to time on wrestling forums because it is pretty comical, yet self-deprecating.

In the consol-semis at state in 2001, I took the mat against a kid from Creston named Cody Downing. If I won, I'd be going for 3rd and 4th, if I lost I'd be going for 5th and 6th.

I was real confused because the night before, after I lost my semifinal match vs. the eventual 3X state champ and future Hawkeye, Cole Pape, I walked over to the mat where Downing was wrestling the guy I beat handily 1st round. I was winning like 12-2 when I pinned the kid in the 2nd period my first match. Anyways, that kid (my first match) was beating Downing pretty badly going into the 3rd period. It was to the point where I thought it was a done deal...that I was going to have a rematch of my first round match, so I just walked off and pouted in the Vets basement over losing my Semis match vs. Pape.

With that said, I was really, really confused when I took the mat and saw this Creston kid, Downing walk on the mat. I stood there and thought, "what in the world is going on? Was there an injury late in this guy's match in the 3rd period that I didn't know about?" To that point, I had been preparing for a rematch of my 1st round match...I had no idea what had happened...turned out, Downing hit a left-sided sag headlock late in the match for the pin...I had no idea...I was too busy pouting when it took place.

Check out what happened when I wrestled Downing. I am the guy in the black and Downing is the guy in the red:



I...GOT...CAUGHT...IN...THE...WORST...HEADLOCK...EVER... Against a kid who I was wayyy better than. I mean, it was ridiculous. As you can see, there was no set-up...nothing...just a slow, deliberate headlock...I was MORTIFIED. I remember thinking to myself in the first minute or two of the match, "oh man, I got this in the bag. I'll be pissed if I don't pin this kid." Then boom...I was caught and pinned in a headlock....and I FREAKING DESERVED IT for failing to counter such a telegraphed move... I shit you not, from 1st grade until that point, I had NEVER been hit in a headlock...whether it be in a live match OR practice. I was NEVER susceptible to a headlock...and to think I got hit with such deliberate one with NO SET-UP in an important match at state is just.... it still just boggles my mind. I have no clue what happened or what kind of brain-lapse I had there.

I'm able to laugh it off today... so feel free to have some laughs at my expense.

Downing ended up doing pretty well at the D3 level...He was a national qualifier and may have come close to being a D3 All-American...probably a bunch of left-sided sag headlocks.

LOL, don't worry about "self-deprecating" - I wrestled before camcorders, and the 8mm tapes would be cracked by now! Oh, and I wrestled heavyweight! Yeah, everybody (including the cheerleaders) went to get a hot dog when we got to the mat!

I wrestled in high school because the all-state defensive tackle on the football team was an awesome friend and wanted somebody to spar with because he was a perennial all-state wrestler too! He was obviously a MUCH better DT than me, and he was pretty much that much better at wrestling too. So I loved it, I really did, but my job was to make him better and test the value of over-the-counter pain relievers!

[rico]

Anyone at Fargo or keeping up with it? There are some kids who bare really coming out of the woodwork this year.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Originally Posted by rico

Anyone at Fargo or keeping up with it? There are some kids who bare really coming out of the woodwork this year.

Like most years, been keeping up with it a bit over the week. Texas had a few kids do well. They continue to improve as a state. Still miles behind the elites.

JR FS predictions:

Miranda CA
Vega AZ
Mueller TX
Russell GA
Tucker MA/NJ
Hayes MO
Zacherl PA
White IL
Manville VA/NJ
Massa MI
Rogers WA/OK
Martin NJ
Benick MN
Harrington IA
Jones IL

I was happy to see Iowa recruit Burke Paddock lose. It's not a big event for incoming college freshman as it is and the dude is almost 20 years old. Stay home. He will underwhelm like his brothers.

[rico]

Originally Posted by Rudy lost the toss

Like most years, been keeping up with it a bit over the week. Texas had a few kids do well. They continue to improve as a state. Still miles behind the elites.

JR FS predictions:

Miranda CA
Vega AZ
Mueller TX
Russell GA
Tucker MA/NJ
Hayes MO
Zacherl PA
White IL
Manville VA/NJ
Massa MI
Rogers WA/OK
Martin NJ
Benick MN
Harrington IA
Jones IL

I was happy to see Iowa recruit Burke Paddock lose. It's not a big event for incoming college freshman as it is and the dude is almost 20 years old. Stay home. He will underwhelm like his brothers.

Looks like you were 8/15. Not bad... would have been better if you didn't have that 5 match skid starting at 120 after predicting the first 3 correctly. It appears that there were some dynamite matches.

Being an Iowan, it may be surprising to hear me say that I was a bit happy to see Iowa's Freddy Stroker get beaten out. His dad is a poster on the Iowa high school wrestling message board that I post on and he is total moron. I mean, you can't say something even slightly negative about Freddy without him logging on and going on a long-winded tangent in which he really lays in to the person in obnoxious fashion. For example, hypothetically speaking, someone makes a comment about how Freddy has looked better in a certain match than he did in another...It is a sure bet that Stroker's dad logs on and call you a bunch of names, make a bunch of excuses for Freddy (when he doesn't even need to) and go on and on and on about how much of an asshole you are for basically not talking about Freddy as if he is flawless. It's ****ing ridiculous. Freddy is probably a nice kid, so it is unfair to judge him according to how his dad acts... However, I just can't help it... the guy is just THAT arrogant.

Wish my brothers decided to wrestle in this opposed to showing their horses at the fair... I would have loved to have caught some of these matches.

[New World Order]

Serious question here:

Did you guys actually enjoy the sport of wrestling in high school? I can't imagine the weight cutting or grabbing another man in spandex would be fun.

How many of you were forced into it?

[rico]

Originally Posted by New World Order

Serious question here:

Did you guys actually enjoy the sport of wrestling in high school? I can't imagine the weight cutting or grabbing another man in spandex would be fun.

How many of you were forced into it?

Weight cutting in excess is awful and I think many wrestlers (myself included) have put too much emphasis on it in terms of it being necessary to be successful.

Yeah, the spandex stuff... Have heard it a billion times from a billion different non-wrestlers. I've never met a wrestler who has had an issue wrestling in their singlet. It's not a big deal.

Story of how I started wrestling: My wrestling-crazy dad took me to a local tournament when I was 6 years old. I was just there with him to watch and had no idea why he took me there to begin with. I was bored out of my mind the entire day. At the conclusion of the tournament, my dad asked, "did you have fun watching the tournament?" I replied, "no." He asked, "that's because you want to wrestle yourself, right? Do you want to do this?" I replied, "no." My dad responded with, "well tough shit. I registered you in the Central Lee wrestling tournament. That is next week. Your first practice will be in our living room when we get home." I had 5-6 two hour practices in my living room...just my dad and I. I wrestled in the Central Lee tournament and walked through it... 2 pins and a tech. From that point on, my dad was a full-fledged crazy wrestling parent. He started the youth wrestling program at my school (which still exists today) and I was in wrestling practice for 8-10 hours per week.

Did I like it? No, not really... the pressure from my dad along with the pressure I put on myself to succeed was unbearable. The weight cutting was horrific. It prompted a LOT of performance anxiety. Hell, the worst trouble I would get into in my life was when I would lose a wrestling match. However, when you do something for a long time and become pretty good at it in rather quick fashion, you naturally develop a passion for it. I loved winning. Hated losing to the point where I was straight up scared of it. I can't imagine my life had I not wrestled...it's just been that prominent of a part of my life. And I think I am a better person now because I did wrestle...sometimes I wonder what I would be like today had I not wrestled. It is embedded in my mind as being pretty bittersweet. I can't honestly tell you that I liked it. I love watching it now... I love following my brothers and some of the other kids I have coached. My high school really has something good going right now.

[Rudy tossed tigger's salad]

Originally Posted by rico

Looks like you were 8/15. Not bad... would have been better if you didn't have that 5 match skid starting at 120 after predicting the first 3 correctly. It appears that there were some dynamite matches.

Being an Iowan, it may be surprising to hear me say that I was a bit happy to see Iowa's Freddy Stroker get beaten out. His dad is a poster on the Iowa high school wrestling message board that I post on and he is total moron. I mean, you can't say something even slightly negative about Freddy without him logging on and going on a long-winded tangent in which he really lays in to the person in obnoxious fashion. For example, hypothetically speaking, someone makes a comment about how Freddy has looked better in a certain match than he did in another...It is a sure bet that Stroker's dad logs on and call you a bunch of names, make a bunch of excuses for Freddy (when he doesn't even need to) and go on and on and on about how much of an asshole you are for basically not talking about Freddy as if he is flawless. It's ****ing ridiculous. Freddy is probably a nice kid, so it is unfair to judge him according to how his dad acts... However, I just can't help it... the guy is just THAT arrogant.

Wish my brothers decided to wrestle in this opposed to showing their horses at the fair... I would have loved to have caught some of these matches.

My finals predictions were terrible considering there were 4 or 5 gimmes.

Stroker definitely did not impress this tournament. I don't know if it's the jump in weight, but as a Cael fanboy I wouldn't be disappointed if he backed off recruiting him. But I remember thinking Brandon Sorensen, another Iowa wrestler, had leveled off and he has been really impressive in his redshirt year.

[rico]

Originally Posted by Rudy lost the toss

My finals predictions were terrible considering there were 4 or 5 gimmes.

Stroker definitely did not impress this tournament. I don't know if it's the jump in weight, but as a Cael fanboy I wouldn't be disappointed if he backed off recruiting him. But I remember thinking Brandon Sorensen, another Iowa wrestler, had leveled off and he has been really impressive in his redshirt year.

If Stroker' dad were a planeteer...he'd be on here ripping you a new one.

Speaking of Sorensen, I saw that Jake Marlin, fellow 2013 4X state champ and Sorensen's roommate left Iowa to wrestle at a community college or something.