The Combine's Here, Bitch!

[planetdoc]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Alex Carrington, Ropati Pitoitua, Frostee Rucker, Red Bryant, etc. All pros who can be plugged into our 3-4 at 5-tech and I guarantee you they will all perform better than Hageman in 2014.

probably. Rookie defensive players as a whole have "growing pains" compared to vets.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Donald gives us what you can't find without trading for Geno Atkins or Henry Melton.

4-3 players. The chiefs dont run that system. It sounds like you are advocating switching to that, and chiefs brass (dorsey) has recently gone on record stating that they are staying with the 3-4.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

I don't know how many times I have to say this but we need a dominant interior penetrator

I thought that is what Poe was supposed to be. He did get 4.5 sacks this yr from the NT position which is pretty good.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

far more than we need a fat run stuffer like you are advocating for.

that is not what I am advocating. I am advocating for a 3 down player. Hagemon can pass rush, defend the run, and block passing lanes.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

We often got 0 pressure up the middle without sending Berry or Johnson, that really needs to change and

agree.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Donald can immediately provide that.

doubt in a 3-4, or only as a situational pass rusher. Chiefs already have to many of those type players. They need someone who can play every down.

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

4-3 players. The chiefs dont run that system. It sounds like you are advocating switching to that, and chiefs brass (dorsey) has recently gone on record stating that they are staying with the 3-4.
In today's NFL, the base 3-4 is becoming all but obselete. It's a passing league, your 5-techs are situational players, not your nickel and dime pass rusher. Tell me this, what defense did we mainly line up in against the Broncos?


I thought that is what Poe was supposed to be. He did get 4.5 sacks this yr from the NT position which is pretty good.

Sure, he flashed the ability at times, but he was hardly consistent. There were too many times when just 1 blocker was enough to stop him. When Poe was neutralized by 2 blockers, the other interior pass rusher couldn't ever win his 1 on 1 matchup. Hali and Houston would take wide lanes and get washed out of the play, there was almost always a pocket for the QB to step up into. I don't see how you could think that Donald wouldn't solve that problem. Plug him in and everyone's sack totals would increase.


that is not what I am advocating. I am advocating for a 3 down player. Hagemon can pass rush, defend the run, and block passing lanes.
Sure, he has the potential to do it. But he disappears far too often for me to consider with our only top 75 pick. Donald absolutely guarantees that you will get improved pass rush production from the interior. He doesn't win with just his speed, he uses strength and exceptional technique as well. His motor and work ethic is second to none whereas Hageman is average in his effort.

Hageman career numbers: 91 tackles, 24 TFL, 10 sacks, 2 FF, 10 PDF.

Donald in 2013: 59 tackles, 28.5 TFL, 11 sacks, 4 FF, 3 PDF.

That's one season vs Hageman's entire 4 year career.


doubt in a 3-4, or only as a situational pass rusher. Chiefs already have to many of those type players. They need someone who can play every down.

We don't have anything close to Donald. None of our backup DL players can even run close to what Donald was able to run. None of them have his combination of technique, power, and speed. If they did, you can bet that Sutton would actually play them. And again, we barely even line up in our supposed base 3-4.

Donald, just like Atkins, plays far bigger than his listed height/size.

[planetdoc]

Originally Posted by OldSchool

In today's NFL, the base 3-4 is becoming all but obselete.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article...7-7a807cd84f07

REID: “Yeah I like the thirty-four. I like some of the things that it gives you. In particular, once you drop the nose and fire yourself into a nickel situation you use those guys as rush and drop guys. It allows you to be a little creative with some of your blitz packages.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

That's one season vs Hageman's entire 4 year career.

They didnt exactly play the same positions. Although hageman played all over, most of his snaps were at nose.

Originally Posted by OldSchool

We don't have anything close to Donald.

The chiefs already use Bailey and Catapano as situational pass rushers .They are about the same weight as Donald. Maybe Howard, Bailey, or Catapano can become an everydown DE....I dont know. I dont think they are there yet.

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article...7-7a807cd84f07

REID: “Yeah I like the thirty-four. I like some of the things that it gives you. In particular, once you drop the nose and fire yourself into a nickel situation you use those guys as rush and drop guys. It allows you to be a little creative with some of your blitz packages.
Again, the sub packages are what we run most of the time. I don't know how many times I have to tell you that. It's like talking to a brick wall.


They didnt exactly play the same positions. Although hageman played all over, most of his snaps were at nose.
Hageman was counted on to provide pressure and disruption on run plays just as much as Donald was. Pretty poor excuse for his lack of production.


The chiefs already use Bailey and Catapano as situational pass rushers .They are about the same weight as Donald. Maybe Howard, Bailey, or Catapano can become an everydown DE....I dont know. I dont think they are there yet.

Sure, they use Bailey and Catapano in those roles, but they are mostly ineffective pass rushers and are too easily neutralized. That's like saying we don't need to draft a Free Safety, we already have Kendrick Lewis; or, we don't need a WR, we already have Donnie Avery/Jenkins/Wessler.

Yeah, we don't need this, not at all.



Look when Florida State tries to double team Donald, he's just too quick for them.




This won't help our run defense at all, no way. He has to hold up blockers and wait for our LBs to make the play, not disrupt the play himself by demolishing the double team of two much bigger players. Btw, that's what you call being a play making DT and not just a space eater. Before you ask, yes he can hold his own ground when he actually does get blocked as well and is pretty strong at the point of attack, especially for a guy his size.



Keep in mind, these aren't flashes, he does this kind of thing on a routine basis. He's more polished than Geno Atkins was coming out of college in part because he studied Atkins' game in the NFL and applied it to his own, which allowed him to increase his production even more as a senior despite facing better competition and more double teams than before. Every offensive coordinators knows to look out for Donald and game plans against him but no one was able to shut him out.

Now, use your imagination for a second, though you don't seem to have one, and think about how good our pass rush can be once you have this lineup (nickel and dime packages to be exact, which take up about 60% of our defensive snaps):

Hali - - - Poe - - Donald - - - Houston.

At least one of these guys will be guaranteed a 1 on 1 battle and maybe as many as 3 of them if the offense doesn't keep in an extra blocker.

Poe will take the attention of the LG and C, leaving Donald alone vs a typically less mobile/athletic RG. Houston will be facing the RT with possibly a TE chipping him, or it will be Hali facing a chip block/double team.

This would be Poe getting double teamed, Hali and Houston locked up on the outside, and Donald facing a 1 on 1.



If you draft Aaron Donald, this type of pressure in the middle is all but guaranteed, especially with the success of smaller guys like Atkins and Melton (recent), Randle, Sapp, etc. in the history of the league. Donald's combination of athleticism, quickness, power, and technique is too good to not translate to NFL success. He checks off everything in the box except for one thing, his height. His arm length of 32 5/8" is actually fine for an interior DL player and fringe for a 5-tech.

[Sorter]

Originally Posted by planetdoc

4-3 players. The chiefs dont run that system. It sounds like you are advocating switching to that, and chiefs brass (dorsey) has recently gone on record stating that they are staying with the 3-4.

Holy ****ing surprise Batman, more idiocy! We don't align in an odd front exclusively even with our 3-4. Nobody does, not even Romeo. Because of that, we typically do have one of our defensive tackles aligning in a 3 in base personnel grouping (3-4). Which is the exact same position that those players Sir Robert mentioned play quite extensively.

Additionally, KC almost always uses a 1 and 3 tech from our sub package. Since the NFL is so geared towards passing, this 3 technique gets quite a few snaps. Crazy, I know!