Football Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 01:45 PM

Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress.

Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th.

Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html

NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game.

New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side.

Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached.
And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling.

"Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback.

So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here.

For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat.

There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion.

Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement.

"This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked.

The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place.

First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children.

He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated.

So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players.

So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face.
It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities.

In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other.

When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart.

Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged.

Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance.

Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable.

No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum.

Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers.

The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms.

As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions.

It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious.

That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line.

It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case.

But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter.

The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady.

The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance.

It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word.

The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.

**FRCDFED** · 08-31-2015, 01:52 PM

I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.

**BigRichard** · 08-31-2015, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.

How many times does this need to be repeated in these threads... he wasn't punished for the balls he was punished for his lack of cooperation.

**FRCDFED** · 08-31-2015, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRichard

How many times does this need to be repeated in these threads... he wasn't punished for the balls he was punished for his lack of cooperation.

The same number of times it has to be repeated that he claimed he was told the phone wasn't needed. Therefore, he did cooperate with the investigation.

Chiefnj2 · 08-31-2015, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

The same number of times it has to be repeated that he claimed he was told the phone wasn't needed. Therefore, he did cooperate with the investigation.

The data from the phone was needed.

Only idiots believe the "deflator" was a weight loss term.

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRichard

How many times does this need to be repeated in these threads... he wasn't punished for the balls he was punished for his lack of cooperation.

How many times does this need to be said that you are wrong -- the NFL has NEVER said that. NEVER made it clear that it was lack of cooperation that resulted in his suspension. Indeed, their lawyer said it was BOTH the deflation AND the failure to cooperate.

MagicHef · 08-31-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.

I can. The NFLPA negotiated the current CBA and agreed to give the commissioner the power he has. He used that power, the NFLPA is now trying to argue against the CBA they agreed to.

IMO, he'll throw it out, maintaining Brady's suspension.

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I can. The NFLPA negotiated the current CBA and agreed to give the commissioner the power he has. He used that power, the NFLPA is now trying to argue against the CBA they agreed to.

IMO, he'll throw it out, maintaining Brady's suspension.

He may at that. It will be interesting to see what language he uses. He could uphold the suspension while crucifying the NFL. That would be quite a bit of fun to read, if that's the way it goes down.

**Dave Lane** · 08-31-2015, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I can. The NFLPA negotiated the current CBA and agreed to give the commissioner the power he has. He used that power, the NFLPA is now trying to argue against the CBA they agreed to.

IMO, he'll throw it out, maintaining Brady's suspension.

If there is no proof of any guilt can he just use his power willy nilly?

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 08-31-2015, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef

I can. The NFLPA negotiated the current CBA and agreed to give the commissioner the power he has. He used that power, the NFLPA is now trying to argue against the CBA they agreed to.

IMO, he'll throw it out, maintaining Brady's suspension.

And if he doesn't, the owners should rip up the CBA and negotiate something better suited for them since the players side doesn't feel the need to follow it. Look at Kam Chancellor in Seattle as exhibit B.

**Dave Lane** · 08-31-2015, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

And if he doesn't, the owners should rip up the CBA and negotiate something better suited for them since the players side doesn't feel the need to follow it. Look at Kam Chancellor in Seattle as exhibit B.

You think the commish should be able to suspend anyone for any reason with no evidence? Is that your position?

Red Dawg · 08-31-2015, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

You think the commish should be able to suspend anyone for any reason with no evidence? Is that your position?

No evidence? What a joke. The commish only needs reasonable suspicion and there was more than enough evidence to support that much at least for sure.

Brady is hiding something for sure and he deserves his suspension.

MagicHef · 08-31-2015, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

You think the commish should be able to suspend anyone for any reason with no evidence? Is that your position?

No, the level of proof needed to punish someone by the CBA is a preponderance of evidence. That's what the NFLPA agreed to. The case against Brady reached that level.

Amnorix · 08-31-2015, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.

The problem for Berman, Brady and the NFLPA is that the NFLPA gave the Commish the power to be judge, jury and executioner. It's all rather insane, but arbitration provisions and awards are granted EXTREME deference by the courts. Courts really want to empower arbitrators, not disempower them.

MagicHef · 08-31-2015, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

The problem for Berman, Brady and the NFLPA is that the NFLPA gave the Commish the power to be judge, jury and executioner. It's all rather insane, but arbitration provisions and awards are granted EXTREME deference by the courts. Courts really want to empower arbitrators, not disempower them.

What are you expecting?

08-31-2015, 01:45 PM	Topic Starter
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Brady v. NFL: No Settlement; Judge Berman to Decide Can't find the old thread. Brady and Goodell were back in NYC today for settlement talks. No progress. Judge Berman said he would likely decide "in the next day or two" and definitely before September 4th. Interesting how the narrative among the national writers has evolved. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-g...180816187.html NEW YORK – They arrived surrounded by lawyers, each wearing a blue suit and displeased expression. Here was Roger Goodell and here was Tom Brady back in federal court in a fight over power, ego and legacy, as much as whether the footballs were deflated in January's AFC championship game. New York Giants owner John Mara came in an attempt to soften the face of the league's side a bit. Jay Feely, a long-time NFL kicker and friend of Brady's from back at the University of Michigan, arrived to stand by his side. Once again, nothing worked. A private meeting in front of Judge Richard M. Berman yielded nothing. No one budged. No one backed down. No settlement was reached. And now both sides roll the dice and sit and wait for a ruling. "Tomorrow or the day after," Berman said of when he would likely announce whether to vacate Brady's four-game suspension. He assured it would come before Sept. 4, when both sides requested an answer so the New England Patriots can begin preparing for the season opener with or without their star quarterback. So that's that, all or nothing, all or everything, all eyes on the court docket here. For Brady it's either a quarter of the season lost or a measure of redemption gained. For Goodell it's either a reaffirmation of the totality of his authority or another humiliating public defeat. There may be appeals and requests for stays and thus months still to go, what will be won, what may not be done. None of that minimized the tension and drama inside Berman's 17th-floor courtroom here on Monday, when a case that started as a curiosity on that playoff night boiled toward a milestone, if not a conclusion. Berman clearly knows how he is going to rule and likely has much of the decision already written. He's read and heard it all over the past month. There were no new arguments on Monday. The chief attorneys, Daniel Nash of the NFL and Jeffrey Kessler of the NFL Players Association, both merely stood and praised the efforts of all sides even though, as sometimes happens, they just couldn't reach a settlement. "This is a time Mr. Nash and I are going to agree," Kessler joked. The inability to find common ground is not a surprise. Tom Brady was simply never going to admit he had any role in the tampering of those footballs, or even that the footballs were ever tampered with in the first place. First off, after he said as much under oath and then introduced the transcript into federal court, doing so would risk a perjury charge. More importantly though, it would be a complete reversal, making him a liar and a cheat, crushing his image among not just fans but, most importantly according to those that know him best, his own children. He also very well may be innocent. The NFL never produced much of a case against him, let alone that the footballs were even unnaturally deflated. So the only way a settlement could go down was for Goodell to drop any demands for an admission of guilt. He'd have to settle for Brady merely acknowledging a failure to fully cooperate with the investigation. That, however, would be a serious concession from a commissioner who's built his career on cracking heads among misbehaving players. So there was the irresistible force clashing with the unmovable object, each willing to lose in court as long as he could still save face. It has been, if nothing else, a remarkable showdown of oversized personalities. In court Monday, the two men, rich and famous and atop their chosen professions, refused to even look at each other. When the session was adjourned, both were forced to awkwardly wait for the galley to clear out of media and observers, leaving them within a few feet of each other a couple table rows apart. Brady stood first and wandered over to one wood-paneled wall of the ornate courtroom. He stuffed his hands in his pocket, looking as intense as any tight fourth-quarter drive. Feely stood by his side and the two eventually hugged. Goodell, seated in front, stood slowly and also put his hands in his pocket, looking down and then turning in the opposite direction of Brady, trying to wear a face of nonchalance. Eight months into this scandal, after swings of allegations and misrepresentations, of false media leaks and broadside-legal attacks, the distrust and disgust were clear: Two men known for their ability to smoothly glide through life, with fashion and fabulous hair, looked strangely uncomfortable. No one ever wants to sit in this position, leaving it to another man, federal judge or not, to declare whether he or she is a cheat or a fraud or a bully or a bum. Here these two are though, going down that awkward path together. Their lives are seemingly too charmed for this, yet they were like a couple of rivals on opposite sides of the schoolyard, unwilling to even acknowledge the other's presence in front of onlookers. The stakes seem higher for Goodell, if only because his legal argument here is based on the 1981 Supreme Court decision MLBPA v. Garvey, which essentially prohibits judges from interfering with the decision of arbitrators even if they are horrendously flawed or based on inaccurate facts. Arguing you have the right to be a dictator isn't ideal in public relations terms. As such, Goodell and the NFL could certainly prevail in front of Berman but do so via a ruling full of the same kind of harsh verbiage that the judge used during two prior public sessions. It's clear that no matter which way Berman goes, he looked upon the NFL's judicial system in general, and the league's conduct in this case specifically, as lacking any semblance of fairness or competency. He could unload in the ruling and leave Goodell laid out, even if he's technically victorious. That's the risk Goodell was willing to take. And one Brady is willing to go with, essentially entering the verdict stage with a two-pronged chance at redemption – either total or at least in the court of public opinion. A loss and a four-game suspension would hurt, but he could at least point to an impartial federal judge down in New York agreeing that Goodell is out of line. It's certainly reasonable that the NFL initially erred when it failed to comprehend Ideal Gas Law and thus initially thought any Patriots football that measured below 12.5 pounds per square inch of inflation was a sign of nefarious conduct. It immediately went after a speeding ticket like a homicide case. But by the time the league should've have dialed it back, it had already leaked prejudicial stories and begun building a case against Brady and two Patriots locker room attendants. The NFL never was able to find a smoking gun or much more than suspicions, but that didn't matter. The NFL not only never backed down, it just kept doubling down, believing the full force of the league's power – both in the CBA and in its ability to manipulate national reporters – would overwhelm Brady. The league may be correct and on the verge of a show-of-force victory. It may be wrong and headed for a comeuppance. It's all up to Judge Berman now. Who knows what he thinks and who knows what he'll rule. On Monday he seemed eager to make it known though as he sent the two men in fancy blue suits off into the Manhattan morning, Goodell via a black Escalade, Brady in a Chevy Suburban. Each is left awaiting his word. The QB v. the Commissioner, it's all or everything now.
Posts: 43,125

08-31-2015, 01:52 PM	#2
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $9326297	I can't imagine any scenario where the judge sides with the NFL considering the lack of evidence and the lack of precedent in such a matter. Previous equipment violations (which Brady's involvement hasn't even been proven) only resulted in a $25k fine.
Posts: 3,185