Royals Just how bad has Dayton Moore been? The numbers.

FringeNC · 07-25-2014, 07:34 AM

In a statistical analysis at 538 of how great Billy Beane has been, we can see just how bad Dayton Moore (and to a lessor extent, Allard Baird) has been. Look at the last graphic at this link:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...r-billy-beane/

While it would have cost a team $1.4 extra billion to get the number of wins Billy Beane has generated since 2000, the Royals should have been able to generate the same number of wins we've had for $800 million less than what we have paid. Worst in all of baseball.

TomBarndtsTwin · 07-25-2014, 07:39 AM

To a lessor extent, Allard Baird??

Look, I'm no huge fan of DM, but Allard Baird is literally one of the worst GM's in the history of organized sport. His ineptitude can never be approached by DM.

Allard Baird makes DM look like Billy Beane.

FringeNC · 07-25-2014, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

To a lessor extent, Allard Baird??

Look, I'm no huge fan of DM, but Allard Baird is literally one of the worst GM's in the history of organized sport. His ineptitude can never be approached by DM.

Allard Baird makes DM look like Billy Beane.

I say to a lessor extent Baird because these values are relative to payroll, so I'm guessing if you broke down the numbers, Moore is going to be much worse because Baird isn't going to get penalized as much for his performance given the tiny payrolls he had.

Three7s · 07-25-2014, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

I say to a lessor extent Baird because these values are relative to payroll, so I'm guessing if you broke down the numbers, Moore is going to be much worse because Baird isn't going to get penalized as much for his performance given the tiny payrolls he had.

He had a decent sized payroll in 2004 and signed hacks like Juan Gonzalez and Benito Santiago. Both he and GMDM have not been good with what resources they've been provided.

TomBarndtsTwin · 07-25-2014, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

I say to a lessor extent Baird because these values are relative to payroll, so I'm guessing if you broke down the numbers, Moore is going to be much worse because Baird isn't going to get penalized as much for his performance given the tiny payrolls he had.

Fair enough.

Nothing DM has done can approach the idiocy of the Dye and Beltran trades, and the failed negotiations with Beltrans agent that led to the aforementioned trade.

FringeNC · 07-25-2014, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Fair enough.

Nothing DM has done can approach the idiocy of the Dye and Beltran trades, and the failed negotiations with Beltrans agent that led to the aforementioned trade.

I think we can all agree that Baird and Moore suck. Moore has been around longer and has a bigger payroll. In my opinion, these numbers emphatically show that David Glass has not directly been the problem, but those running the organization have been. (Now sure, he employs these clowns.)

WhawhaWhat · 07-25-2014, 07:56 AM

The blame should go to the top first and foremost. The ownership of the team has been much more responsible for the team being a failure than any GM or Manager.

FringeNC · 07-25-2014, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat

The blame should go to the top first and foremost. The ownership of the team has been much more responsible for the team being a failure than any GM or Manager.

IMO, that is exactly what the numbers demonstrate is not the problem. Glass's problem is not his cheapness, but his inability (or bad luck) at making GM hires. His GMs have let him down.

WhawhaWhat · 07-25-2014, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

IMO, that is exactly what the numbers demonstrate is not the problem. Glass's problem is not his cheapness, but his inability (or bad luck) at making GM hires. His GMs have let him down.

Nice try Dan Glass.

FringeNC · 07-25-2014, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat

Nice try Dan Glass.

Whatever. Read the article and tell me the flaw in the statistical analysis. You know, the numbers are relative to payroll.

WhawhaWhat · 07-25-2014, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Whatever. Read the article and tell me the flaw in the statistical analysis. You know, the numbers are relative to payroll.

Does it take into account the state of our minor leagues while AB was the GM and that DM had to rebuild? or the fact that the Royals had no presence in Latin America while AB was the GM and that GM had to build from scratch? What about are the draft pick that were taken due to signability vs talent? Colt Griffin and Chris Lubanski and all the others.

Those issues are directly related to funding from ownership of an alleged MLB team, especially one that cannot compete for high quality major league level talent. Scouting and development are vital to a small market team and the Royals were severely underfunded in both categories.

TomBarndtsTwin · 07-25-2014, 08:23 AM

Let's be honest here; Glass didn't really give a shit about the Royals until he hired GMDM. That's when they changed the organizational philosophy, started investing in the draft and International signings, attempting to lock up young talented players on club friendly contracts. Now, obviously, all of the decisions DM has made have not worked out. That's why we are where we are at now.

Glass gets the blame for the Royals ineptitude up until he hired GMDM. After that, it's mostly on Dayton. However, DM is still light years better (as sad as that it) as a GM than Baird ever was, even recognizing the fact that Baird was limited by Glass.

Ebolapox · 07-25-2014, 08:37 AM

was colt griffin a signability pick? seems to me that he was pretty damned in demand as a high schooler with 100 mph heat (and nothing else, it seems now)

Prison Bitch · 07-25-2014, 09:30 AM

Great article about the premier management talent in all of sports, pro or college. I've often said the same thing, that the GM is worth infinitely more than any player (outside a few elites maybe like Trout)....so why aren't they paid any more than Tim Collins????

Ebolapox · 07-25-2014, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Great article about the premier management talent in all of sports, pro or college. I've often said the same thing, that the GM is worth infinitely more than any player (outside a few elites maybe like Trout)....so why aren't they paid any more than Tim Collins????

pretty much... I don't agree with you very often, but I don't understand why teams like the yankees and dodgers never backed up the brinks truck for a guy like beane or epstein. it's obvious the effect these guys have on their organization (they're, honestly, by FAR the reason that these teams have succeeded), pay them as such

07-25-2014, 07:34 AM	Topic Starter
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $1306014	Just how bad has Dayton Moore been? The numbers. In a statistical analysis at 538 of how great Billy Beane has been, we can see just how bad Dayton Moore (and to a lessor extent, Allard Baird) has been. Look at the last graphic at this link: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...r-billy-beane/ While it would have cost a team $1.4 extra billion to get the number of wins Billy Beane has generated since 2000, the Royals should have been able to generate the same number of wins we've had for $800 million less than what we have paid. Worst in all of baseball.
Posts: 10,174

07-25-2014, 07:39 AM	#2
TomBarndtsTwin MVP Join Date: Mar 2013 Casino cash: $4819883	To a lessor extent, Allard Baird?? Look, I'm no huge fan of DM, but Allard Baird is literally one of the worst GM's in the history of organized sport. His ineptitude can never be approached by DM. Allard Baird makes DM look like Billy Beane.
Posts: 8,913

07-25-2014, 07:56 AM	#7
WhawhaWhat MVP Join Date: Feb 2013 Casino cash: $1021116	The blame should go to the top first and foremost. The ownership of the team has been much more responsible for the team being a failure than any GM or Manager.
Posts: 17,494

07-25-2014, 08:23 AM	#12
TomBarndtsTwin MVP Join Date: Mar 2013 Casino cash: $4819883	Let's be honest here; Glass didn't really give a shit about the Royals until he hired GMDM. That's when they changed the organizational philosophy, started investing in the draft and International signings, attempting to lock up young talented players on club friendly contracts. Now, obviously, all of the decisions DM has made have not worked out. That's why we are where we are at now. Glass gets the blame for the Royals ineptitude up until he hired GMDM. After that, it's mostly on Dayton. However, DM is still light years better (as sad as that it) as a GM than Baird ever was, even recognizing the fact that Baird was limited by Glass.
Posts: 8,913

07-25-2014, 08:37 AM	#13
Ebolapox remember, remember Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: como Casino cash: $1529903	was colt griffin a signability pick? seems to me that he was pretty damned in demand as a high schooler with 100 mph heat (and nothing else, it seems now)
Posts: 26,440

07-25-2014, 09:30 AM	#14
Prison Bitch Rabbi Goldmann Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $5450159	Great article about the premier management talent in all of sports, pro or college. I've often said the same thing, that the GM is worth infinitely more than any player (outside a few elites maybe like Trout)....so why aren't they paid any more than Tim Collins????
Posts: 87,025