Chiefs Looking to Houston

OldSchool · 08:40 AM

Now that Smith has been extended, we can move on to Justin Houston. With JJ Watt reportedly getting paid $100 mil for 6 years as one of the league's most dominant 3-4 DEs, how does that affect Justin Houston's outlook?

Watt is getting paid as a disruptor, for his ability to get to the QB and stop plays in the backfield. Justin Houston will get paid for a similar reason and is likely also looking at Mario Williams' deal as a barometer for his big pay day.

So the question is, if this is true and Houston is asking for something in the neighborhood of a 5-year $80 mil deal, would you give it to him or tell him to take a hike? What is the most that you would be willing to shell out to keep Houston on the roster? Would you rather just franchise him for 2 years straight while looking for a capable replacement through the draft?

Perhaps the real question we should be asking is: Would you rather pay for one "dominant" pass rusher (who has yet to crack into the 15 sack territory in his career) or have money to spend on a couple of good DBs while rolling with good to very good pass rushers in place of that one dominant guy (basically think what the Seahawks have with their pass rush by committee).

Saccopoo · 09-02-2014, 01:10 AM

Didn't we just draft a capable replacement for Houston?

OldSchool · 09-02-2014, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Didn't we just draft a capable replacement for Houston?

Who knows what Ford will turn out to be? Things might look a lot better if he and Josh Martin suddenly start to look like quality starters, but the chances of that are very low this year.

If Ford could give you Houston's production in sacks within the next couple of years and Martin becomes very similar to Hali, do you still pay Houston? (However, that's an incredibly optimistic view.)

CallMeSquidwad · 09-02-2014, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Who knows what Ford will turn out to be? Things might look a lot better if he and Josh Martin suddenly start to look like quality starters, but the chances of that are very low this year.

If Ford could give you Houston's production in sacks within the next couple of years and Martin becomes very similar to Hali, do you still pay Houston? (However, that's an incredibly optimistic view.)

Couldn't disagree anymore if I tried, are Byron Maxwell and Jeremy Lane household names? Had you heard of Clinton Mcdonald or Toby Mcdaniel before? If you have a good unit then it makes the worst man in the room exponentially better than average due to the standard being set in the room ala the Seahawks or Niners. I believe either way we will be fine; Josh Martin won't fill Justin's shoes day 1, but he ain't no Studebaker. Martin also works with Tamba in the offseason so I see him as only getting better, and I do potentially see him becoming an Ahmad Brooks level of OLB(which is ****ing beast).

**BigMeatballDave** · 09-02-2014, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Didn't we just draft a capable replacement for Houston?

Who knows?

If that pick is a replacement, it's Hali's replacement. Houston is far too young to think about replacing now. Pay him.

OldSchool · 09-02-2014, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMeatballDave

Who knows?

If that pick is a replacement, it's Hali's replacement. Houston is far too young to think about replacing now. Pay him.

How much would you be willing to pay him though? Upwards of $80 mil?

kcchiefsus · 09-02-2014, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

How much would you be willing to pay him though? Upwards of $80 mil?

Why not? I think he's proven he's a top notch talent in this league. I don't want the Chiefs to be known as a cheap ass team that won't pony up for talent. We already know we're too cheap to pay any decent free agents, we sure as hell better not be too cheap to retain our own players that were drafted by this team. We sure as hell don't draft well enough to just let a Houston type player walk.

Saccopoo · 09-02-2014, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

How much would you be willing to pay him though? Upwards of $80 mil?

Twenty years ago? Yes.

In today's NFL? No.

Even though a top flight pass rusher is perceived as one of the most important cogs on a team, I think it's more important in today's NFL to build a more even talent level across the board versus pay what used to be the cornerstone positions such as OLB/Rush End and Left Offensive Tackle.

The one position that remains constant is the QB, though even Seattle showed that you don't necessarily have to have a top five statistical performer at the QB position to win the Super Bowl. (However, I believe that they are more the anomaly, the outlier to the norm.)

It's no longer the "I" formation, run/run/pass league it once was. Teams are all over the place offensively and defensively, switching players to either side, running amazingly varied offensive sets with regularity, etc. Having the one dedicated high-end pass rusher isn't as key as it was a couple of decades ago due to the continued use of spread offensive alignments, and it's my contention that, in fact, a stronger, more talented build through the middle is now more important to a teams defensive success than the older philosophy of building on the outside for the rush.

As an example, look at Carolina, Seattle, San Francisco, etc. Extremely strong through the middle (ILB/S positions) gives these teams the capability to defend against the multiple receiver sets, particularly the slot position which is becoming more and more utilized as well as the crossing rub plays that are en vogue.

Now, a player such as Luke Kuechly or Bobby Wagner is more important to modern NFL defensive success than a dedicated pass rusher.

Fritz88 · 09-02-2014, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Didn't we just draft a capable replacement for Houston?

I wouldn't be surprised if this regime let him walk.
Posted via Mobile Device

**TimBone** · 09-02-2014, 01:11 AM

Honestly? I'd like to see how Houston plays this year. Let him play balls out on a contract year. If he lights it up...you pay the man top dollar. If he disappoints, well....you've got leverage going into negotiations this off season.

John Dope · 09-02-2014, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimBone

Honestly? I'd like to see how Houston plays this year. Let him play balls out on a contract year. If he lights it up...you pay the man top dollar. If he disappoints, well....you've got leverage going into negotiations this off season.

Yep, that's what I think they'll do. He still has some things to prove imo.

Sandy Vagina · 09-02-2014, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimBone

Honestly? I'd like to see how Houston plays this year. Let him play balls out on a contract year. If he lights it up...you pay the man top dollar. If he disappoints, well....you've got leverage going into negotiations this off season.

Agree fully with this. Also gives them some time to assess how well Ford is developing. If he can impress to the point where they feel they can move on instead of paying Houston... then that obviously saves them a bunch of cap.

If they can finagle the cap and pay him now? Hey, that wouldn't trouble me either. It's not like I want him off the team.

Chiefnj2 · 09-02-2014, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

Agree fully with this. Also gives them some time to assess how well Ford is developing. If he can impress to the point where they feel they can move on instead of paying Houston... then that obviously saves them a bunch of cap.

If they can finagle the cap and pay him now? Hey, that wouldn't trouble me either. It's not like I want him off the team.

Why do people feel it should be Ford or Houston? Ridiculous. The goal should be Houston AND Ford. The team doesn't get any better personnel wise letting an All Pro talent walk and trying to replace him. The goal should be keeping your young talent and adding to it, not a bizarre revolving door.

Sandy Vagina · 09-02-2014, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Why do people feel it should be Ford or Houston? Ridiculous. The goal should be Houston AND Ford. The team doesn't get any better personnel wise letting an All Pro talent walk and trying to replace him. The goal should be keeping your young talent and adding to it, not a bizarre revolving door.

I sure don't disagree with you, really. I wasn't thinking much about Hali.. but he will either have to take a pay-cut or be cut loose. So if they can find a way, sure.. pay Houston. If not, tag him next year. There are a few scenarios at play... all of them not ideal.

1. Go through 2014 as is.. then Hali takes a pay-cut or is cut loose in 2015.

If cut loose, that's 8 million right there that can go to Houston's new contract.

Will Houston want to remain a Chief and not test the market? Doesn't matter... can TAG. Then, KC roles with Houston and Ford... probably drafts a mid-rd OLB.

2. Find a way to manage the cap where they can extend Houston now. Keeps his 2014 cap hit reasonable, but gets some of that bonus prorated.

Same situation for Hali... cut in pay or cut loose. then they either have their trio back, or Hali is gone and then replaced by a draft pick.. fairly high.

3. Same deal for Hali.. cut loose or pay-cut... but this time, KC chooses to let Houston walk. Maybe Ford is looking good?

So KC saves a bunch of cap room... has only Ford, maybe paycut Hali... and then has to put a real urgency on finding a new pass rush LB via draft or FA.

**SAUTO** · 09-02-2014, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

Agree fully with this. Also gives them some time to assess how well Ford is developing. If he can impress to the point where they feel they can move on instead of paying Houston... then that obviously saves them a bunch of cap.

If they can finagle the cap and pay him now? Hey, that wouldn't trouble me either. It's not like I want him off the team.

no one gives a **** what you want.

09-02-2014, 01:04 AM	Topic Starter
OldSchool MVP Join Date: Sep 2013 Casino cash: $10035212	Looking to Houston Now that Smith has been extended, we can move on to Justin Houston. With JJ Watt reportedly getting paid $100 mil for 6 years as one of the league's most dominant 3-4 DEs, how does that affect Justin Houston's outlook? Watt is getting paid as a disruptor, for his ability to get to the QB and stop plays in the backfield. Justin Houston will get paid for a similar reason and is likely also looking at Mario Williams' deal as a barometer for his big pay day. So the question is, if this is true and Houston is asking for something in the neighborhood of a 5-year $80 mil deal, would you give it to him or tell him to take a hike? What is the most that you would be willing to shell out to keep Houston on the roster? Would you rather just franchise him for 2 years straight while looking for a capable replacement through the draft? Perhaps the real question we should be asking is: Would you rather pay for one "dominant" pass rusher (who has yet to crack into the 15 sack territory in his career) or have money to spend on a couple of good DBs while rolling with good to very good pass rushers in place of that one dominant guy (basically think what the Seahawks have with their pass rush by committee). Last edited by OldSchool; 09-02-2014 at 08:40 AM..
Posts: 12,727

09-02-2014, 01:10 AM	#2
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	Didn't we just draft a capable replacement for Houston?
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09-02-2014, 01:11 AM	#10
TimBone Mostly Ignored Join Date: Jul 2013 Casino cash: $8499985	Honestly? I'd like to see how Houston plays this year. Let him play balls out on a contract year. If he lights it up...you pay the man top dollar. If he disappoints, well....you've got leverage going into negotiations this off season.
Posts: 18,096