Home and Auto Any Medicaid experts here?

**Rain Man** · 07-23-2018, 10:00 PM

Okay, this is an awkward question, but I'll pose it.

I have an older relative who's got a long history of making bad financial decisions. He's a senior citizen and has basically backed himself into a financial corner. He's making payments on two properties that aren't producing any income for him (and which have very low market value), and he owns another property that's apparently got a lien on it for some significant amount relative to the property's value. I have the impression that each of these properties would sell for less than he owes on them, or are breakeven at best.

So he's basically spending all of his income on these loan payments, and he's not buying things like medicines that he needs. His house is falling down around him because he can't do basic repairs, and he's eating junk food every day because it's cheap. Again, he constantly makes bad financial decisions.

I've suggested that he look into Medicaid to get some help. He alternately claims that he's not eligible because of all of the real estate that he owns, and then also says that he won't apply because they'll "take all of his stuff".

I don't know much about this topic since I've never looked into it. Can someone answer these questions for me?

1. If he owns real estate, but it's worth less than he owes (or if it's got a lien on it), does it count as assets in terms of Medicaid eligibility? It's not really an asset for him in net value, and in fact it's a big liability because he's making payments on properties that are not worth the cost. But does Medicaid consider the debt when determining eligiblity, or just the raw asset?

Obviously, the smart move would be to dump them for whatever value he can get, but again ... he constantly makes bad financial decisions so he refuses to do the smart thing.

2. He claims that Medicaid will "take his stuff". I'm looking up information, and it appears that you have to sign your assets over if you want long-term care (and that's a reasonable thing in my opinion). It appears that basic Medicaid coverage doesn't require signing over your assets, though. Is that correct? It's only for long-term care or assisted living? And does 'signing over your assets' include your home? I know that your home doesn't count as an asset when determining eligibility.

3. If you need long-term care and sign over your assets, does that somehow negate the debts on those assets? Would he still owe payments on the remaining mortgages and the lien on the third property? Or would that go away somehow when they received the assets?

Thanks in advance. If you respond knowledgeably, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.

T-post Tom · 07-23-2018, 11:21 PM

https://www.lawyers.com/medicare-and...uri/law-firms/

**Bugeater** · 07-23-2018, 11:42 PM

Sounds like he needs someone to take over his financial affairs.

**Rain Man** · 07-24-2018, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

https://www.lawyers.com/medicare-and...uri/law-firms/

Hmm. This is a good idea.

**Rain Man** · 07-24-2018, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

Sounds like he needs someone to take over his financial affairs.

Yep. But if you read the opening post again, you'll see that he consistently makes poor financial decisions, so a smart move like this won't work.

kccrow · 07-24-2018, 12:40 AM

Went through this some with my mom..

They can't take your home, at least while you're alive. So long as the home is your principal residence, it's also excluded from eligibility determination. If he's the only occupant, he'd need to be sure he remains occupying the home (not enter a nursing home, etc). As for what would happen to the house if he does become eligible, he would need to will or get a quitclaim deed drawn before he dies, else the house will enter probate and risks going to the state due to OBRA 93 medicaid estate recovery laws.

He also needs to know that there is a 5 year lookback for property transfers for less than market. It's an automatic disqualifier, so he definitely would want to sell at or over market. Then he has the issue of having money and where exactly would he hide it (spend)? It seems, that he could dump pretty much all of it into paying off his debts and making home renovations, so that would be a good thing.

Now on those other properties, if they are used for rental income as "self-support" then they could be excluded. It would depend on his net income from renting and his overall monthly income, which IIRC is maxed at $2000 for eligibility.

Edit: I just did a quick lookup, $2000 is the max cash you can have. State by state for income, but single person in Missouri is like $855 a month income.

**luv** · 07-24-2018, 07:30 AM

Medicaid can be a fickle beast. I would definitely contact an attorney in the state in which your relative lives. I would try to get an attorney as close in location to your relative as you can. I know you have relatives in my neck of the woods. If you need any referrals, I'd be happy to get you a few.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-24-2018, 08:02 AM

How old is your relative and what health conditions does he have?

Msmith · 07-24-2018, 08:21 AM

I thought that medicaid is for 64 or below and 65 or higher is qualified for medicare.

oldman · 07-24-2018, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Msmith

I thought that medicaid is for 64 or below and 65 or higher is qualified for medicare.

That was my thought as well. Medicare still won't help much with meds unless he opts for for that to be included and that additional premium is pretty high.

**luv** · 07-24-2018, 08:52 AM

Medicare is pretty much a guaranteed coverage federal insurance for those age 65+, as well as a few younger people who might qualify. Medicaid is a public assistance program for those of all ages that is dependent on income.

I usually think of Medicare as something that goes along with social security.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 07-24-2018, 09:00 AM

That's why Rainmain needs to qualify what he means when he says senior citizen.

Fat Elvis · 07-24-2018, 10:27 AM

It is hard to give an answer because each state has different rules regarding eligibility and benefits when it comes to Medicaid....based upon what you've said, however, if he is in Kansas, he can pretty much forget about being eligible for Medicaid.

Randallflagg · 07-24-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Okay, this is an awkward question, but I'll pose it.

I have an older relative who's got a long history of making bad financial decisions. He's a senior citizen and has basically backed himself into a financial corner. He's making payments on two properties that aren't producing any income for him (and which have very low market value), and he owns another property that's apparently got a lien on it for some significant amount relative to the property's value. I have the impression that each of these properties would sell for less than he owes on them, or are breakeven at best.

So he's basically spending all of his income on these loan payments, and he's not buying things like medicines that he needs. His house is falling down around him because he can't do basic repairs, and he's eating junk food every day because it's cheap. Again, he constantly makes bad financial decisions.

I've suggested that he look into Medicaid to get some help. He alternately claims that he's not eligible because of all of the real estate that he owns, and then also says that he won't apply because they'll "take all of his stuff".

I don't know much about this topic since I've never looked into it. Can someone answer these questions for me?

1. If he owns real estate, but it's worth less than he owes (or if it's got a lien on it), does it count as assets in terms of Medicaid eligibility? It's not really an asset for him in net value, and in fact it's a big liability because he's making payments on properties that are not worth the cost. But does Medicaid consider the debt when determining eligiblity, or just the raw asset?

Obviously, the smart move would be to dump them for whatever value he can get, but again ... he constantly makes bad financial decisions so he refuses to do the smart thing.

2. He claims that Medicaid will "take his stuff". I'm looking up information, and it appears that you have to sign your assets over if you want long-term care (and that's a reasonable thing in my opinion). It appears that basic Medicaid coverage doesn't require signing over your assets, though. Is that correct? It's only for long-term care or assisted living? And does 'signing over your assets' include your home? I know that your home doesn't count as an asset when determining eligibility.

3. If you need long-term care and sign over your assets, does that somehow negate the debts on those assets? Would he still owe payments on the remaining mortgages and the lien on the third property? Or would that go away somehow when they received the assets?

Thanks in advance. If you respond knowledgeably, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.

How old is this relative? I know that you stated he is a "senior citizen". If so, he SHOULD be on Medicare - NOT Medicaid. Any chance he's on SSDI (disability)?

I'm sorry, I can't answer the other questions. Yes - I, too, am a senior citizen but I really don't know about asset forfeiture if you are on assistance. However, logic would dictate that you might have to turn over "liquid" assets to pay for long term care. I would imagine, however, that you would still be responsible for the payments….(I think)

Randallflagg · 07-24-2018, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Msmith

I thought that medicaid is for 64 or below and 65 or higher is qualified for medicare.

That would be the case.

07-23-2018, 10:00 PM
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $2918491 VARSITY	Any Medicaid experts here? Okay, this is an awkward question, but I'll pose it. I have an older relative who's got a long history of making bad financial decisions. He's a senior citizen and has basically backed himself into a financial corner. He's making payments on two properties that aren't producing any income for him (and which have very low market value), and he owns another property that's apparently got a lien on it for some significant amount relative to the property's value. I have the impression that each of these properties would sell for less than he owes on them, or are breakeven at best. So he's basically spending all of his income on these loan payments, and he's not buying things like medicines that he needs. His house is falling down around him because he can't do basic repairs, and he's eating junk food every day because it's cheap. Again, he constantly makes bad financial decisions. I've suggested that he look into Medicaid to get some help. He alternately claims that he's not eligible because of all of the real estate that he owns, and then also says that he won't apply because they'll "take all of his stuff". I don't know much about this topic since I've never looked into it. Can someone answer these questions for me? 1. If he owns real estate, but it's worth less than he owes (or if it's got a lien on it), does it count as assets in terms of Medicaid eligibility? It's not really an asset for him in net value, and in fact it's a big liability because he's making payments on properties that are not worth the cost. But does Medicaid consider the debt when determining eligiblity, or just the raw asset? Obviously, the smart move would be to dump them for whatever value he can get, but again ... he constantly makes bad financial decisions so he refuses to do the smart thing. 2. He claims that Medicaid will "take his stuff". I'm looking up information, and it appears that you have to sign your assets over if you want long-term care (and that's a reasonable thing in my opinion). It appears that basic Medicaid coverage doesn't require signing over your assets, though. Is that correct? It's only for long-term care or assisted living? And does 'signing over your assets' include your home? I know that your home doesn't count as an asset when determining eligibility. 3. If you need long-term care and sign over your assets, does that somehow negate the debts on those assets? Would he still owe payments on the remaining mortgages and the lien on the third property? Or would that go away somehow when they received the assets? Thanks in advance. If you respond knowledgeably, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.
Posts: 141,804

07-23-2018, 11:21 PM	#2
T-post Tom Threepeat! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Milk/Honey/Gazland Casino cash: $4347293	https://www.lawyers.com/medicare-and...uri/law-firms/ __________________ You seem nice!
Posts: 20,334

07-23-2018, 11:42 PM	#3
Bugeater The Maintenance Guy Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Renovated Bugeater Estate Casino cash: $6232680	Sounds like he needs someone to take over his financial affairs.
Posts: 70,443

07-24-2018, 12:40 AM	#6
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $2927078	Went through this some with my mom.. They can't take your home, at least while you're alive. So long as the home is your principal residence, it's also excluded from eligibility determination. If he's the only occupant, he'd need to be sure he remains occupying the home (not enter a nursing home, etc). As for what would happen to the house if he does become eligible, he would need to will or get a quitclaim deed drawn before he dies, else the house will enter probate and risks going to the state due to OBRA 93 medicaid estate recovery laws. He also needs to know that there is a 5 year lookback for property transfers for less than market. It's an automatic disqualifier, so he definitely would want to sell at or over market. Then he has the issue of having money and where exactly would he hide it (spend)? It seems, that he could dump pretty much all of it into paying off his debts and making home renovations, so that would be a good thing. Now on those other properties, if they are used for rental income as "self-support" then they could be excluded. It would depend on his net income from renting and his overall monthly income, which IIRC is maxed at $2000 for eligibility. Edit: I just did a quick lookup, $2000 is the max cash you can have. State by state for income, but single person in Missouri is like $855 a month income.
Posts: 12,685

07-24-2018, 07:30 AM	#7
luv MY LITTLE #15 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Springfield, MO Casino cash: $6019600	Medicaid can be a fickle beast. I would definitely contact an attorney in the state in which your relative lives. I would try to get an attorney as close in location to your relative as you can. I know you have relatives in my neck of the woods. If you need any referrals, I'd be happy to get you a few.
Posts: 63,452

07-24-2018, 08:02 AM	#8
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7939572	How old is your relative and what health conditions does he have? __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,854

07-24-2018, 08:21 AM	#9
Msmith Veteran Join Date: Jan 2004 Casino cash: $9078035	I thought that medicaid is for 64 or below and 65 or higher is qualified for medicare.
Posts: 1,999

07-24-2018, 08:52 AM	#11
luv MY LITTLE #15 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Springfield, MO Casino cash: $6019600	Medicare is pretty much a guaranteed coverage federal insurance for those age 65+, as well as a few younger people who might qualify. Medicaid is a public assistance program for those of all ages that is dependent on income. I usually think of Medicare as something that goes along with social security.
Posts: 63,452

07-24-2018, 09:00 AM	#12
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7939572	That's why Rainmain needs to qualify what he means when he says senior citizen. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,854

07-24-2018, 10:27 AM	#13
Fat Elvis Sexiest Athlete Join Date: Apr 2001 Casino cash: $1111925	It is hard to give an answer because each state has different rules regarding eligibility and benefits when it comes to Medicaid....based upon what you've said, however, if he is in Kansas, he can pretty much forget about being eligible for Medicaid.
Posts: 12,433