Life Crimean War-Wag The Dog

Holladay · 10-05-2015, 09:00 PM

Daughter just started the college. Her Poly Sci class wants to know if the Crimean War is a Wag The Dog and prove one way or the other.

She understands the concept and was asking me for ideas.

I told the daughter that I don't know enough about Russian politics to know.

That is the end point and looking for the CP to come through again

First off, it isn't a "Crimean War", it is Russian aggression, trying to take back lands that were lost when the USSR fell apart. Land Grab. If an independent state wants to maintain its' statehood and gets overrun...not good.

Flip side, US aggression via Desert Storm, Shield, Afgan, Iran, Syria, mid east. If looking from an outsider position, were they a land grab (devils advocate).

But back to point. Is the "Invasion" of Ukraine (or as the Professor stated, the "Crimean War") a wag the dog for Russia?

I told her about the theory of the "Aspirin" factory bombing during the Monica trial, and was possibly a "way the dog". I am sure there are many other instances, but couldn't remember (both Dem/Rep). If we were Germany, would we have thought the bombing was a wag? IE. don't know enough bout US politics to voice an opinion.

Thus, I don't know enough about Russian politics to say if the battle in the Ukraine IS a wag or not.

Argument for a wag: Economy is in shambles, thus a wag. Got nothing past that.

Argument against a wag: Russia REALLY wants those lands, thus not a distraction.

Ideas??

Discuss Thrower · 10-05-2015, 09:03 PM

No, because Crimea has strategic importance to Russia and has a definite Russian ethnic presence among the Ukrainian population. The invasion was a show of force against former Eastern Bloc countries trying to shake off Russian political control, namely Ukraine.

Prison Bitch · 10-05-2015, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

No, because Crimea has strategic importance to Russia and has a definite Russian ethnic presence among the Ukrainian population. The invasion was a show of force against former Eastern Bloc countries trying to shake off Russian political control, namely Ukraine.

A very good summation.

GloucesterChief · 10-05-2015, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

No, because Crimea has strategic importance to Russia and has a definite Russian ethnic presence among the Ukrainian population. The invasion was a show of force against former Eastern Bloc countries trying to shake off Russian political control, namely Ukraine.

Much more complicated than that. Crimea was not historically ethnically Russian. It was populated by Tartars and Greeks. During the Soviet Union as part of the USSRs 'Russofication' of their territories they shipped the Tartars and Greeks out and gave the land to ethnic Russians. Later a Soviet PM made Crimea part of the Ukraine.

Prison Bitch · 10-05-2015, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloucesterChief

Much more complicated than that. Crimea was not historically ethnically Russian. It was populated by Tartars and Greeks. During the Soviet Union as part of the USSRs 'Russofication' of their territories they shipped the Tartars and Greeks out and gave the land to ethnic Russians. Later a Soviet PM made Crimea part of the Ukraine.

I would dispute that account.

Saccopoo · 10-05-2015, 10:11 PM

My senior thesis in history was on the Crimean War. And it kicked ass.

Your daughter can do her own ****ing research.

Oh, you really aren't talking about the real Crimean War.

Nevermind.

**New World Order** · 10-05-2015, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

My senior thesis in history was on the Crimean War. And it kicked ass.

Your daughter can do her own ****ing research.

Oh, you really aren't talking about the real Crimean War.

Nevermind.

Send her your paper.

Saccopoo · 10-05-2015, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New World Order

Send her your paper.

No.

Saccopoo · 10-05-2015, 10:17 PM

I also used the Crimean War as the back drop to a novella that I wrote for my creative writing English degree.

That kicked ass as well.

And she aint getting that one either.

**AustinChief** · 10-05-2015, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

I would dispute that account.

And you'd be dead wrong. These are historical facts.

**AustinChief** · 10-05-2015, 10:32 PM

As Sac points out... we need to know WHICH Crimean War we are talking about.

I honestly can't think of any solid justification to claim that either Crimean War was simply a distraction from some other more important issue.

Let's look at the current Crimean aggression. To make that claim you have to identify what is more important. What does Putin want to distract from? If the intent was to distract from domestic issue than Crimea is a spectacular failure. The taking of Crimea resulted in much much harsher sanctions than would have otherwise occurred if Russia had simply kept supporting the "rebels" in Donbass. And of course if we are looking at the entire Ukraine conflict than Russia was skating by on the Russian Reset with virtually no sanctions at all before they decided to make a land grab in Ukraine.

A more believable proposition would be that Russia's involvement in SYRIA is a "wag the dog" to distract from Ukraine/Crimea and give the Russians leverage to back off there and get sanctions relief. It's not true but it is far more believable.

Any paper that doesn't prove that there was a LARGER issue than Crimea became fails to prove the "wag the dog" point. (or at the very least Russia had to have THOUGHT there was a larger issue than what Crimea became, either by knowing about some huge issue that we don't know about or by misjudging the West's reaction to the taking of Crimea)

Discuss Thrower · 10-05-2015, 10:53 PM

The US media kinda exaggerated likening Clinton's ordering of cruise missile strikes during the Lewinsky scandal IMO to the movie for reasons that should be obvious to intelligent people here.

**New World Order** · 10-05-2015, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I also used the Crimean War as the back drop to a novella that I wrote for my creative writing English degree.

That kicked ass as well.

And she aint getting that one either.

Name your price.

Saccopoo · 10-05-2015, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New World Order

Name your price.

All of my writings are going to the grave with me, which, at this point, is coming sooner rather than later.

I should get to work on some of them actually since I've been given four years max.

Holladay · 10-05-2015, 11:16 PM

[QUOTEMy senior thesis in history was on the Crimean War. And it kicked ass.

Your daughter can do her own ****ing research.

Oh, you really aren't talking about the real Crimean War.

Nevermind.
][/QUOTE]

Sorry to piss on your parade. I was just looking for some help.

Others, nice input. Just got off the phone with the daughter. She was grateful for your insight.

CP comes through again!!!!

10-05-2015, 09:00 PM
Holladay Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $2379480	Crimean War-Wag The Dog Daughter just started the college. Her Poly Sci class wants to know if the Crimean War is a Wag The Dog and prove one way or the other. She understands the concept and was asking me for ideas. I told the daughter that I don't know enough about Russian politics to know. That is the end point and looking for the CP to come through again First off, it isn't a "Crimean War", it is Russian aggression, trying to take back lands that were lost when the USSR fell apart. Land Grab. If an independent state wants to maintain its' statehood and gets overrun...not good. Flip side, US aggression via Desert Storm, Shield, Afgan, Iran, Syria, mid east. If looking from an outsider position, were they a land grab (devils advocate). But back to point. Is the "Invasion" of Ukraine (or as the Professor stated, the "Crimean War") a wag the dog for Russia? I told her about the theory of the "Aspirin" factory bombing during the Monica trial, and was possibly a "way the dog". I am sure there are many other instances, but couldn't remember (both Dem/Rep). If we were Germany, would we have thought the bombing was a wag? IE. don't know enough bout US politics to voice an opinion. Thus, I don't know enough about Russian politics to say if the battle in the Ukraine IS a wag or not. Argument for a wag: Economy is in shambles, thus a wag. Got nothing past that. Argument against a wag: Russia REALLY wants those lands, thus not a distraction. Ideas??
Posts: 3,602

10-05-2015, 09:03 PM	#2
Discuss Thrower "You like to drink?" Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: "I like to drink." Casino cash: $2946869	No, because Crimea has strategic importance to Russia and has a definite Russian ethnic presence among the Ukrainian population. The invasion was a show of force against former Eastern Bloc countries trying to shake off Russian political control, namely Ukraine. __________________ Chiefs 2016 Opponents: Home: JAX, TEN, NO, TB, NYJ. Away: HOU, IND, ATL, CAR, PIT Chiefs 2017 Opponents: Home: BUF, MIA, PHI, WSH, AFC North. Away: NE, NYJ, NYG, DAL, AFC South
Posts: 42,905

10-05-2015, 10:11 PM	#6
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	My senior thesis in history was on the Crimean War. And it kicked ass. Your daughter can do her own ****ing research. Oh, you really aren't talking about the real Crimean War. Nevermind.
Posts: 15,450

10-05-2015, 10:17 PM	#9
Saccopoo Kindness in words... Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zion Casino cash: $10025483	I also used the Crimean War as the back drop to a novella that I wrote for my creative writing English degree. That kicked ass as well. And she aint getting that one either.
Posts: 15,450

10-05-2015, 10:32 PM	#11
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $2359112	As Sac points out... we need to know WHICH Crimean War we are talking about. I honestly can't think of any solid justification to claim that either Crimean War was simply a distraction from some other more important issue. Let's look at the current Crimean aggression. To make that claim you have to identify what is more important. What does Putin want to distract from? If the intent was to distract from domestic issue than Crimea is a spectacular failure. The taking of Crimea resulted in much much harsher sanctions than would have otherwise occurred if Russia had simply kept supporting the "rebels" in Donbass. And of course if we are looking at the entire Ukraine conflict than Russia was skating by on the Russian Reset with virtually no sanctions at all before they decided to make a land grab in Ukraine. A more believable proposition would be that Russia's involvement in SYRIA is a "wag the dog" to distract from Ukraine/Crimea and give the Russians leverage to back off there and get sanctions relief. It's not true but it is far more believable. Any paper that doesn't prove that there was a LARGER issue than Crimea became fails to prove the "wag the dog" point. (or at the very least Russia had to have THOUGHT there was a larger issue than what Crimea became, either by knowing about some huge issue that we don't know about or by misjudging the West's reaction to the taking of Crimea)
Posts: 19,587

10-05-2015, 10:53 PM	#12
Discuss Thrower "You like to drink?" Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: "I like to drink." Casino cash: $2946869	The US media kinda exaggerated likening Clinton's ordering of cruise missile strikes during the Lewinsky scandal IMO to the movie for reasons that should be obvious to intelligent people here. __________________ Chiefs 2016 Opponents: Home: JAX, TEN, NO, TB, NYJ. Away: HOU, IND, ATL, CAR, PIT Chiefs 2017 Opponents: Home: BUF, MIA, PHI, WSH, AFC North. Away: NE, NYJ, NYG, DAL, AFC South
Posts: 42,905

10-05-2015, 11:16 PM	#15
Holladay Veteran Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $2379480	[QUOTEMy senior thesis in history was on the Crimean War. And it kicked ass. Your daughter can do her own ****ing research. Oh, you really aren't talking about the real Crimean War. Nevermind. ][/QUOTE] Sorry to piss on your parade. I was just looking for some help. Others, nice input. Just got off the phone with the daughter. She was grateful for your insight. CP comes through again!!!!
Posts: 3,602