Chiefs Mellinger: It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley

**Tribal Warfare** · 01-03-2011, 01:39 AM

It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley
By SAM MELLINGER
The Kansas City Star

The spin is coming, it’s been coming, all sorts of neatly packaged reasons that Charlie Weis is quitting as Chiefs offensive coordinator to take the same job at the University of Florida.

Weis will stay with the Chiefs through the playoffs, but after that, he wants to be closer to his son. He wants to have his whole family in one place. Or he wants to get away from the grind of the NFL and back on campus, where he wants another try at being a head coach someday. He’s had some health scares recently, and his priorities have shifted away from pro football.

On and on and on the reasons go. You can listen to them all day, and there’s probably a little truth in most of them.

But logic-centered people can clearly see the Chiefs now have a potentially big problem on their hands, bigger than concerns over an entirely uninspired 31-10 blowout loss to the Raiders on Sunday.

Today, even as he’s a legitimate candidate for NFL coach of the year, Todd Haley looks like an impossible man to work for, ego and insecurity driving two veteran offensive coordinators away in a 16-month span.

The Chiefs and Haley will strongly deny all of this, of course, but there is too much circumstantial evidence stacking up, too much behind-the-scenes posturing, too much pettiness to believe anything else.

Weis and Haley never got along, not completely, not in the way that two men need to get along to work the long hours and high stakes of the NFL. Nobody is surprised by this, the young and fiery head coach not becoming BFFs with the older and just-as-fiery assistant who used to be his boss.

It was a shotgun marriage of convenience and personal gain for both sides. Haley got a capable and credible coordinator who allowed him to spend less time in the grueling details and more time in the big-picture duties of a head coach. Weis got a chance to build success after a miserable ending in Notre Dame and do it working with people he’s familiar with.

In the beginning, everyone said all the right things, particularly Weis, who right away even called Haley “the boss.”

But at some point, the conflicts began to bubble. A lot of it became exaggerated gossip built mostly on speculation and secondhand he-said/she-said, but the basic narrative is that both sides understood this would be a short-term deal.

The Chiefs’ offense blossomed this year, particularly with the quarterback Weis said he came to “fix,” and then came a scramble for who would get the credit. Naturally, a lot of it went to Weis, and some within the Chiefs began to talk up the contributions of Haley and assistant Nick Sirianni.

An important dichotomy began to emerge between the preaching about unity and the private efforts to divide credit. The irony is that a clear effort to control the message has now opened room for people to use varying degrees of informed speculation to assess what is now a national story.

The easy thing is to blame egos, and there are some considerable ones at work here, on all sides. But this is also an awful lot of insecurity. Both qualities often help drive ambitious and successful people in all walks of life, but like anything, it’s best in moderation.

Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli declined to discuss anything beyond what Haley said in his postgame news conference, which included the public company talking points about appreciating Weis’ contributions, respecting his decision and denying any conflicts.

The last time Weis took a college job before his NFL season was over, he stayed on to help the Patriots win the Super Bowl, so the Chiefs insist they won’t suffer from split attention.

This is a successful season for the Chiefs, no matter the ugliness of Sunday or what happens in the playoff game next Sunday. Matt Cassel proved a lot of people wrong, and, yes, I’m near the top of the list. Jamaal Charles is one of the league’s best running backs, Dwayne Bowe is now a legitimate star, and the defense is showing vast improvement.

None of that disappears now just because Weis is making a parallel move from the Chiefs to college.

But aren’t you starting to wonder whether the underlying issues that kept Weis from sticking around will keep Haley and the Chiefs from reaching this “ultimate goal” they’re always talking about?

Hammock Parties · 01-03-2011, 01:45 AM

Wow, this is the first time I've posted this:

Mellinger nailed it.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 01-03-2011, 01:48 AM

I never liked Weis anyway. How much good can you do running around in a wheelchair

DBOSHO · 01-03-2011, 01:50 AM

Bring on McChild.

Fritz88 · 01-03-2011, 01:54 AM

Haley isnt much without Romeo and Weis.
Posted via Mobile Device

01-03-2011, 01:56 AM

Weis' heart may be in Florida but he left his gall bladder in Kansas City.

**pr_capone** · 01-03-2011, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phobia

Weis' heart may be in Florida but he left his gall bladder in Kansas City.

**kysirsoze** · 01-03-2011, 02:11 AM

So basically Weis doesn't want to work for him so he's impossible to work for. What a ****ing stupid article. And he didn't "drive off" Gailey. He ****ing fired him.

CoMoChief · 01-03-2011, 05:16 AM

I don't know why a lot of people didn't expect this or see this coming.

One thing about highly touted coord, is that everyone wants them.

You don't win Superbowls in the NFL and then coach what may be the most prestigious HC job in all of football (Notre Dame), only to come back to the NFL to the rebuilding Chiefs to be a coord again working for your former subordinate. Sorry, as much as I love KC, that's just not a permanent landing spot for a coach with those kinda credentials/resume.

With Weis' success in this sport, comes with a huge ego. He wants to be a HC coach again I'm sure, and mostly with a huge ego comes with wanting a lot of control. Well, you can have that in the NCAA and with recruiting etc, you're dealing with student athletes as opposed to overpaid pre-madonna's in the NFL where there's ownership, GM, CEO's, boards of directors and all this other bullshit that's up and above the HC's authority.

We all knew that KC was a pit stop for Weis. However I didn't think it would be just after one season in the NFL. I thought maybe 3 years at the most then he would get another HC gig somewhere. But he's won 3 Superbowls....he's coached at the highest level in college. His credentials are too much to stay OC for the Chiefs. His ego is too big for this job. It would be like if Coach K actually took the Lakers job from a few years back when it was offered to him, then failing, going back to college after he got fired from the Lakers and working as an asst coach to Bob Knight at Texas Tech.

jidar · 01-03-2011, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

I don't know why a lot of people didn't expect this or see this coming.

One thing about highly touted coord, is that everyone wants them.

You don't win Superbowls in the NFL and then coach what may be the most prestigious HC job in all of football (Notre Dame), only to come back to the NFL to the rebuilding Chiefs to be a coord again working for your former subordinate. Sorry, as much as I love KC, that's just not a permanent landing spot for a coach with those kinda credentials/resume.

With Weis' success in this sport, comes with a huge ego. He wants to be a HC coach again I'm sure, and mostly with a huge ego comes with wanting a lot of control. Well, you can have that in the NCAA and with recruiting etc, you're dealing with student athletes as opposed to overpaid pre-madonna's in the NFL where there's ownership, GM, CEO's, boards of directors and all this other bullshit that's up and above the HC's authority.

We all knew that KC was a pit stop for Weis. However I didn't think it would be just after one season in the NFL. I thought maybe 3 years at the most then he would get another HC gig somewhere. But he's won 3 Superbowls....he's coached at the highest level in college. His credentials are too much to stay OC for the Chiefs. His ego is too big for this job. It would be like if Coach K actually took the Lakers job from a few years back when it was offered to him, then failing, going back to college after he got fired from the Lakers and working as an asst coach to Bob Knight at Texas Tech.

All of that might make sense except:

1: Weiss's time at Notre Dame is widely regarded as a failure, so that's not a bright spot on his resume.

2: Going from OC of any NFL to OC of any college team is a lateral move AT BEST, and honestly it's more of a step down in prestige.

**ChiefGator** · 01-03-2011, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jidar

All of that might make sense except:

1: Weiss's time at Notre Dame is widely regarded as a failure, so that's not a bright spot on his resume.

2: Going from OC of any NFL to OC of any college team is a lateral move AT BEST, and honestly it's more of a step down in prestige.

I wouldn't say #2 is necessarily true. Would you rather be the OC for the abysmal NFL teams like Lions or Bills, or top ten, top five collegiate programs like Florida, Texas, USC. I think that may be a wash.

And would you rather live in Detroit or Buffalo; or Florida, Southern California, Texas.

InChiefsHeaven · 01-03-2011, 06:47 AM

Why does it have to be Haley who is the problem? This article is nothing but supposition with flimsy evidence...they talk about how Chan Gailey was run out of town, but they also forget that Chan was NOT a Haley hire. As far as why Weiss is leaving, at the end of the day nobody knows, but I guess it's fun to assume that there is something evil and nefarious going on...

milkshock · 01-03-2011, 07:07 AM

my take - the hire of weis and crennel in the first place was actually a vote of no confidence in haley - this latest debacle has done nothing to improve his standing.

InChiefsHeaven · 01-03-2011, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkshock

my take - the hire of weis and crennel in the first place was actually a vote of no confidence in haley - this latest debacle has done nothing to improve his standing.

What the...? Hiring really great coordinators means you don't think the Head Coach is any good...

...that might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Marcellus · 01-03-2011, 07:20 AM

I am beginning to think we have the dumbest fanbase and writers in the NFL.

Please provide some type of evidence that there is an issue rather than just saying there is an issue.

There are no facts, quotes, or information in this story to back up the opinion. Nothing.

People within Weis's circle did state to ESPN that it wasn't a personality conflict with Haley.

From Weis's lips.
Weis said his relationship with head coach Todd Haley has not deteriorated as has been speculated.

“I almost get offended when people say that,” Weis said. “People always want to look for a different angle for why you’re doing this. Scott (Pioli), Todd (Haley), Clark (Hunt), they brought me in to Kansas City when I was sitting at home in South Bend. I’ll be forever grateful for the opportunity I had to come here as the offensive coordinator and I’ll always wish them well.

“But this decision had absolutely zero to do with relationships in Kansas City.”

They way the offense has splayed at times I don't know that it is a real loss anyway.

01-03-2011, 01:39 AM
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $622813	Mellinger: It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley It appears KC not big enough for both Weis and Haley By SAM MELLINGER The Kansas City Star The spin is coming, it’s been coming, all sorts of neatly packaged reasons that Charlie Weis is quitting as Chiefs offensive coordinator to take the same job at the University of Florida. Weis will stay with the Chiefs through the playoffs, but after that, he wants to be closer to his son. He wants to have his whole family in one place. Or he wants to get away from the grind of the NFL and back on campus, where he wants another try at being a head coach someday. He’s had some health scares recently, and his priorities have shifted away from pro football. On and on and on the reasons go. You can listen to them all day, and there’s probably a little truth in most of them. But logic-centered people can clearly see the Chiefs now have a potentially big problem on their hands, bigger than concerns over an entirely uninspired 31-10 blowout loss to the Raiders on Sunday. Today, even as he’s a legitimate candidate for NFL coach of the year, Todd Haley looks like an impossible man to work for, ego and insecurity driving two veteran offensive coordinators away in a 16-month span. The Chiefs and Haley will strongly deny all of this, of course, but there is too much circumstantial evidence stacking up, too much behind-the-scenes posturing, too much pettiness to believe anything else. Weis and Haley never got along, not completely, not in the way that two men need to get along to work the long hours and high stakes of the NFL. Nobody is surprised by this, the young and fiery head coach not becoming BFFs with the older and just-as-fiery assistant who used to be his boss. It was a shotgun marriage of convenience and personal gain for both sides. Haley got a capable and credible coordinator who allowed him to spend less time in the grueling details and more time in the big-picture duties of a head coach. Weis got a chance to build success after a miserable ending in Notre Dame and do it working with people he’s familiar with. In the beginning, everyone said all the right things, particularly Weis, who right away even called Haley “the boss.” But at some point, the conflicts began to bubble. A lot of it became exaggerated gossip built mostly on speculation and secondhand he-said/she-said, but the basic narrative is that both sides understood this would be a short-term deal. The Chiefs’ offense blossomed this year, particularly with the quarterback Weis said he came to “fix,” and then came a scramble for who would get the credit. Naturally, a lot of it went to Weis, and some within the Chiefs began to talk up the contributions of Haley and assistant Nick Sirianni. An important dichotomy began to emerge between the preaching about unity and the private efforts to divide credit. The irony is that a clear effort to control the message has now opened room for people to use varying degrees of informed speculation to assess what is now a national story. The easy thing is to blame egos, and there are some considerable ones at work here, on all sides. But this is also an awful lot of insecurity. Both qualities often help drive ambitious and successful people in all walks of life, but like anything, it’s best in moderation. Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli declined to discuss anything beyond what Haley said in his postgame news conference, which included the public company talking points about appreciating Weis’ contributions, respecting his decision and denying any conflicts. The last time Weis took a college job before his NFL season was over, he stayed on to help the Patriots win the Super Bowl, so the Chiefs insist they won’t suffer from split attention. This is a successful season for the Chiefs, no matter the ugliness of Sunday or what happens in the playoff game next Sunday. Matt Cassel proved a lot of people wrong, and, yes, I’m near the top of the list. Jamaal Charles is one of the league’s best running backs, Dwayne Bowe is now a legitimate star, and the defense is showing vast improvement. None of that disappears now just because Weis is making a parallel move from the Chiefs to college. But aren’t you starting to wonder whether the underlying issues that kept Weis from sticking around will keep Haley and the Chiefs from reaching this “ultimate goal” they’re always talking about?
Posts: 42,157

01-03-2011, 01:45 AM	#2
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4420478	Wow, this is the first time I've posted this: Mellinger nailed it. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 278,726

01-03-2011, 01:48 AM	#3
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1430477	I never liked Weis anyway. How much good can you do running around in a wheelchair
Posts: 40,399

01-03-2011, 01:50 AM	#4
DBOSHO trap champ Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	Bring on McChild. __________________ Orginator of the group repost
Posts: 5,445

01-03-2011, 01:54 AM	#5
Fritz88 Custom User Title Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $8835943	Haley isnt much without Romeo and Weis. Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 12,706

01-03-2011, 01:56 AM	#6
Phobia Guest Casino cash: $	Weis' heart may be in Florida but he left his gall bladder in Kansas City.
Posts: n/a

01-03-2011, 02:11 AM	#8
kysirsoze SNAP THE ****ING BALL!!! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $3466946	So basically Weis doesn't want to work for him so he's impossible to work for. What a **ing stupid article. And he didn't "drive off" Gailey. He **ing fired him.
Posts: 11,336

01-03-2011, 05:16 AM	#9
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $8032254	I don't know why a lot of people didn't expect this or see this coming. One thing about highly touted coord, is that everyone wants them. You don't win Superbowls in the NFL and then coach what may be the most prestigious HC job in all of football (Notre Dame), only to come back to the NFL to the rebuilding Chiefs to be a coord again working for your former subordinate. Sorry, as much as I love KC, that's just not a permanent landing spot for a coach with those kinda credentials/resume. With Weis' success in this sport, comes with a huge ego. He wants to be a HC coach again I'm sure, and mostly with a huge ego comes with wanting a lot of control. Well, you can have that in the NCAA and with recruiting etc, you're dealing with student athletes as opposed to overpaid pre-madonna's in the NFL where there's ownership, GM, CEO's, boards of directors and all this other bullshit that's up and above the HC's authority. We all knew that KC was a pit stop for Weis. However I didn't think it would be just after one season in the NFL. I thought maybe 3 years at the most then he would get another HC gig somewhere. But he's won 3 Superbowls....he's coached at the highest level in college. His credentials are too much to stay OC for the Chiefs. His ego is too big for this job. It would be like if Coach K actually took the Lakers job from a few years back when it was offered to him, then failing, going back to college after he got fired from the Lakers and working as an asst coach to Bob Knight at Texas Tech.
Posts: 39,164

01-03-2011, 06:47 AM	#12
InChiefsHeaven Rockin' yer FACE OFF! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Casino cash: $3614937	Why does it have to be Haley who is the problem? This article is nothing but supposition with flimsy evidence...they talk about how Chan Gailey was run out of town, but they also forget that Chan was NOT a Haley hire. As far as why Weiss is leaving, at the end of the day nobody knows, but I guess it's fun to assume that there is something evil and nefarious going on... __________________ We have a million reasons for failure, but not one excuse... Die Donks, DIE!! Holy Crap fellas!!! We did it!!! THREE TIMES!!!
Posts: 25,812

01-03-2011, 07:07 AM	#13
milkshock Journeyman Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: London Casino cash: $2165150	my take - the hire of weis and crennel in the first place was actually a vote of no confidence in haley - this latest debacle has done nothing to improve his standing.
Posts: 3,066

01-03-2011, 07:20 AM	#15
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $2822662	I am beginning to think we have the dumbest fanbase and writers in the NFL. Please provide some type of evidence that there is an issue rather than just saying there is an issue. There are no facts, quotes, or information in this story to back up the opinion. Nothing. People within Weis's circle did state to ESPN that it wasn't a personality conflict with Haley. From Weis's lips. Weis said his relationship with head coach Todd Haley has not deteriorated as has been speculated. “I almost get offended when people say that,” Weis said. “People always want to look for a different angle for why you’re doing this. Scott (Pioli), Todd (Haley), Clark (Hunt), they brought me in to Kansas City when I was sitting at home in South Bend. I’ll be forever grateful for the opportunity I had to come here as the offensive coordinator and I’ll always wish them well. “But this decision had absolutely zero to do with relationships in Kansas City.” They way the offense has splayed at times I don't know that it is a real loss anyway.
Posts: 69,469