Football Tony G...4th best “receiver” of all time? - Page 3

**BossChief** · 08-07-2018, 08:30 AM

Rice
Moss
Owens

I know Tony was a TE, but he was mostly a receiver.

They are talking about it on Dan Patrick and he brought up Tony, his position and the QBs he had to play with.

Tony above Harrison, Hudson, Fitzgerald and CJ?

Red Dawg · 08-07-2018, 06:00 PM

What the hell is that?

DanT · 08-07-2018, 06:02 PM

Here's a rather simple look at the all-time (as of today) top 25 receivers (by yards) in the NFL. Among these players, I ranked them on three statistics, yards per reception, touchdowns, and fantasy points. I then took the average ranking and used that to order the list from top to bottom. I extracted the data from football-reference.com. Among these receivers, only Tony G. and Jason Witten are tight ends and they have, of course, lower yards per reception than the other receivers. So, the algorithm I'm using is not "fair" to tight ends. On the other hand, when I think about what I want from a receiver, I want big production from the receiver in terms of yards per attempt (which isn't readily available from football-reference.com, but yards per reception is) and in terms of points. So that's why I choose the 3 statistics I did. It seems that there are a couple of names on my simple list that come up ahead of Tony G and that match my own expectations of what I would want. I don't think of Tony G as the 4th-best receiver of all time. I think of him as one of the best tight ends of all-time, who was also one of the best 20 receivers ever.

Code:

rank	name		yards		y/r	td	fantasy	rank_y	rank_yr	rank_td	rank_f	avg_rank
1	jerry rice	"22,895"	14.8	197	3581.8	1	8	1	1	3.3
1	randy moss	"15,292"	15.6	156	2484.4	4	5	2	3	3.3
3	terrell owens	"15,934"	14.8	153	2549.5	2	8	3	2	4.3
4	steve largent	"13,089"	16.0	100	1909.3	18	4	8	12	8.0
5	isaac bruce	"15,208"	14.9	91	2071.9	5	7	10	9	8.7
6	marvin harrison	"14,580"	13.2	128	2226.8	9	18	5	4	9.0
7	tim brown	"14,934"	13.7	100	2087.4	7	14	8	8	10.0
8	cris carter	"13,899"	12.6	130	2167	13	21	4	7	10.7
9	l. fitzgerald	"15,545"	12.6	110	2209.1	3	21	7	5	11.0
10	james lofton	"14,004"	18.3	75	1866.7	12	1	18	15	11.3
11	tony gonzalez	"15,127"	11.4	111	2183.7	6	24	6	6	12.0
11	irving fryar	"12,785"	15.0	84	1794.7	19	6	13	17	12.0
13	andre reed	"13,198"	13.9	87	1874.1	17	13	11	14	12.7
13	steve smith	"14,731"	14.3	81	1982.8	8	11	17	10	12.7
15	reggie wayne	"14,345"	13.4	82	1918.5	10	16	14	11	13.7
16	anquan boldin	"13,779"	12.8	82	1880.6	14	19	14	13	15.3
16	henry ellard	"13,777"	16.9	65	1745.7	15	2	24	20	15.3
18	torry holt	"13,382"	14.5	74	1769.9	16	10	19	18	15.7
19	andre johnson	"14,185"	13.4	70	1834.9	11	16	20	16	17.3
19	charlie joiner	"12,146"	16.2	65	1585.8	24	3	24	25	17.3
21	hines ward	"12,083"	12.1	85	1765.8	25	23	12	19	18.0
22	b. marshall	"12,215"	12.7	82	1712.3	23	20	14	21	18.3
23	art monk	"12,721"	13.5	68	1702.1	20	15	21	22	19.3
23	jimmy smith	"12,287"	14.3	67	1622.6	22	11	23	24	19.3
25	jason witten	"12,448"	10.8	68	1647.5	21	25	21	23	23.0

Red Dawg · 08-07-2018, 06:02 PM

Older guys were tougher. A lot tougher from the QB on down. Hits were really all legal on everyone. Today players are just better though. Faster, stronger by miles and better trained.

Garcia Bronco · 08-07-2018, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Tony G is the best TE of all time and it is not even close. He could have played two or three more years, but decided not to risk his health. Tony could have been number 2 all time but chose not to take all those hits. He also played in some of the worst offenses and shitty QB's in Chiefs history. He was so dominating- refs refused to call holding against defenses against him.

Totally true except for Shannon Sharpe, Kellen Winslow, Ozzie Newsome.

DanT · 08-07-2018, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Totally true except for Shannon Sharpe, Kellen Winslow, Ozzie Newsome.

Here's how the 5 tight ends mentioned either here or in my post would rank on the algorithm I described earlier. Notably, all three of the tight ends that Garcia Bronco mentioned had better yards per reception than Tony G. Tony G. has impressive numbers in the "accumulation" stats, the ones that reflect overall production over the course of a career.

Code:

rank	name		yards	y/r	td	fantasy	rank_y	rank_yr	rank_td	rank_f	avg_rank
1.0	tony gonzalez	15127.0	11.4	111.0	2183.7	1.0	4.0	1.0	1.0	2.0
2.0	shannon sharpe	10060.0	12.3	62.0	1376.9	3.0	2.0	3.0	3.0	2.7
3.0	jason witten	12448.0	10.8	68.0	1647.5	2.0	5.0	2.0	2.0	3.0
4.0	kellen winslow	6741.0	12.5	45.0	933.1	5.0	1.0	5.0	5.0	3.7
5.0	ozzie newsome	7980.0	12.1	47.0	1102.5	4.0	3.0	4.0	4.0	3.7

Antonio Gates currently has 11,508 yards, 12.4 yards per reception, 114 TDs and 1828 fantasy points, so he would be tied with Tony G. at the top of this table. I do not feel that Tony G is clearly the best receiver tight end of all time, given the production of Gates and Sharpe. Sharpe also won Super Bowls, with the Broncos (twice) and Ravens (once). A case could be made for Tony G, but it would not be indisputable.

Garcia Bronco · 08-07-2018, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanT

Here's how the 5 tight ends mentioned either here or in my post would rank on the algorithm I described earlier. Notably, all three of the tight ends that Garcia Bronco mentioned had better yards per reception than Tony G. Tony G. has impressive numbers in the "accumulation" stats, the ones that reflect overall production over the course of a career.

Code:

rank	name		yards	y/r	td	fantasy	rank_y	rank_yr	rank_td	rank_f	avg_rank
1.0	tony gonzalez	15127.0	11.4	111.0	2183.7	1.0	4.0	1.0	1.0	2.0
2.0	shannon sharpe	10060.0	12.3	62.0	1376.9	3.0	2.0	3.0	3.0	2.7
3.0	jason witten	12448.0	10.8	68.0	1647.5	2.0	5.0	2.0	2.0	3.0
4.0	kellen winslow	6741.0	12.5	45.0	933.1	5.0	1.0	5.0	5.0	3.7
5.0	ozzie newsome	7980.0	12.1	47.0	1102.5	4.0	3.0	4.0	4.0	3.7

cool man let me know if any of those yards amounted to any playoff wins that mattered for the Chiefs.

Why Not? · 08-07-2018, 07:02 PM

Greatest or top whatever lists are so difficult because of the different era thing. Unless someone was just so ridiculously statistically out in front of everyone else(Rice, Gretzky)it's impossible for me to fairly judge.

DanT · 08-07-2018, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

cool man let me know if any of those yards amounted to any playoff wins that mattered for the Chiefs.

I absolutely agree with the thought behind your post. Sharpe is a champion and his team came into Arrowhead and beat my Chiefs in that crucial AFC Divisional. Great players do great things. Accumulation is only one aspect of greatness. Sharpe has rings, Tony G. does not.

MarkDavis'Haircut · 08-07-2018, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why Not?

Greatest or top whatever lists are so difficult because of the different era thing. Unless someone was just so ridiculously statistically out in front of everyone else(Rice, Gretzky)it's impossible for me to fairly judge.

Exactly. Numbers are inflated compared to previous eras. Plus, offenses have numerous rule advantages.

I saw a formula where if you took Tom Harmon's stats and added multipers to account for the increased number of plays per game and extra number of games played by current collegiate teams, his stats blew the record holder out of the water. But at first glance, they are pedestrian.

Demonpenz · 08-08-2018, 12:14 AM

Grbac and Huard had radar lock on Tony G. Tony G had a knack for avoiding the big hit and always seemed to be dragging defenders.

WhiteWhale · 08-08-2018, 12:37 AM

One thing about Tony that drove me nuts is often after he'd catch a pass he'd stop, turn, and do this stupid little wiggle.

It's not like he ever juked someone with it. Just truck 'em Tony. Good lord it was annoying. Dude could have tacked hundreds of more yards onto his total.

It's crazy to nitpick, but yeah. Tony could have been even better if he was better after the catch. His routes were WR level as were his hands.

08-07-2018, 08:30 AM
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1664088	Tony G...4th best “receiver” of all time? Rice Moss Owens I know Tony was a TE, but he was mostly a receiver. They are talking about it on Dan Patrick and he brought up Tony, his position and the QBs he had to play with. Tony above Harrison, Hudson, Fitzgerald and CJ?
Posts: 47,156

08-07-2018, 06:00 PM	#31
Red Dawg Going home eventually Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $4602858	What the hell is that? __________________ If you're not first you're last!
Posts: 30,471

08-07-2018, 06:02 PM	#33
Red Dawg Going home eventually Join Date: Dec 2002 Casino cash: $4602858	Older guys were tougher. A lot tougher from the QB on down. Hits were really all legal on everyone. Today players are just better though. Faster, stronger by miles and better trained. __________________ If you're not first you're last!
Posts: 30,471

08-07-2018, 07:02 PM	#37
Why Not? In Search of a Life Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Kansas Casino cash: $2928994	Greatest or top whatever lists are so difficult because of the different era thing. Unless someone was just so ridiculously statistically out in front of everyone else(Rice, Gretzky)it's impossible for me to fairly judge.
Posts: 21,793	1 0

08-08-2018, 12:14 AM	#40
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $2992136	Grbac and Huard had radar lock on Tony G. Tony G had a knack for avoiding the big hit and always seemed to be dragging defenders. __________________
Posts: 54,294

08-08-2018, 12:37 AM	#41
WhiteWhale Bring it on Ahab! Join Date: May 2011 Location: Doo-Dah Casino cash: $10015152	One thing about Tony that drove me nuts is often after he'd catch a pass he'd stop, turn, and do this stupid little wiggle. It's not like he ever juked someone with it. Just truck 'em Tony. Good lord it was annoying. Dude could have tacked hundreds of more yards onto his total. It's crazy to nitpick, but yeah. Tony could have been even better if he was better after the catch. His routes were WR level as were his hands.
Posts: 14,861