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-   -   Football Article: why the Jags took Joeckel (Some of it would apply to Fisher) (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=272746)

Just Passin' By 05-03-2013 11:36 AM
Article: why the Jags took Joeckel (Some of it would apply to Fisher)
 
Quote:
...While the Jaguars already had one talented offensive tackle in Eugene Monroe (whom Caldwell called a "top 10 tackle"), both schools of thought said they'd be much better off with two. Caldwell emphasized the rising importance of the right tackle in a league where defensive coordinators are becoming more varied and creative in exploiting weaknesses, and Khan turned to a ProFootballFocus.com study compiled by Steve Palazzolo showing the right tackle had become just as important as the left tackle. Worlds colliding....

...Part of it, too, was the position itself. According to Khan's data, 71 percent of tackles drafted in the top 10 from 1995 to 2008 have made at least one Pro Bowl, while only 16 percent of tackles drafted between 11 and 32 over that period did the same. Also, top-10 tackles drafted from 1990 to 2008 averaged a staggering 70.5 starts in their first five years, a number that dipped to 58.5 starts for those drafted from 11 to 32.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...ls-debut-draft

Mr_Tomahawk 05-03-2013 11:36 AM
...Because Fisher wasn't there.

BlackHelicopters 05-03-2013 11:38 AM
To get to the other side

Setsuna 05-03-2013 11:38 AM
It was a terrible move. The fact is Khan refused to look at all the W-L records of these teams that drafted these tackles in the top 10. I bet it's well under .500. You can't justify that BS. You really can't. That pick was the last straw that made me give up on that organization.

Prison Bitch 05-03-2013 11:38 AM
What does it say about teams who draft two top-5 defensive linemen outta LSU? How do those players perform in the League?

BlackHelicopters 05-03-2013 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 9655043)
What does it say about teams who draft two top-5 defensive linemen outta LSU? How do those players perform in the League?
ROFL

DaKCMan AP 05-03-2013 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsuna (Post 9655041)
It was a terrible move. The fact is Khan refused to look at all the W-L records of these teams that drafted these tackles in the top 10. I bet it's well under .500. You can't justify that BS. You really can't. That pick was the last straw that made me give up on that organization.
I'd bet that the W-L record of teams that draft in the top 10 is poor regardless of what position they select.

bsp4444 05-03-2013 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsuna (Post 9655041)
It was a terrible move. The fact is Khan refused to look at all the W-L records of these teams that drafted these tackles in the top 10. I bet it's well under .500. You can't justify that BS. You really can't. That pick was the last straw that made me give up on that organization.
If they were drafting in the top ten, they were just bad. Maybe that has something to do with being under .500, even after drafting a tackle. One guy isn't going to fix everything.

Fat Elvis 05-03-2013 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 9655049)
I'd bet that the W-L record of teams that draft in the top 10 is poor regardless of what position they select.
I bet you're right.

WhawhaWhat 05-03-2013 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 9655049)
I'd bet that the W-L record of teams that draft in the top 10 is poor regardless of what position they select.
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-...erford-gif.gif

Just Passin' By 05-03-2013 11:47 AM
Here's a nugget from the article that could probably go in a GENO!!!! thread. When you consider who the Jaguars have at QB, this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the 2013 QB class.

Quote:
"We worked out five or six quarterbacks, spent time with them," Caldwell said. "And we'd evaluated what we had in Blaine and Chad (Henne), and we felt like the important thing was to solidify the roster first. We do that, get some help around them, and give them a fair shot to play well. And we really felt like -- with our first-, second-, third-, fourth-round picks -- we got incrementally better at those positions. We weren't 100 percent sure we'd get better at the quarterback position with guys at those spots."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...ls-debut-draft

The Jacksonville Jaguars, with Blaine Gabbert at the helm, weren't sure if any of this year's QBs would be an upgrade. LMAO

Mr. Laz 05-03-2013 11:51 AM
because the talent at the top of the draft dictated Olineman?

a ton of teams did the same because the draft was weak

Kidd Lex 05-03-2013 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9655062)
LMAO creepy LMAO

Setsuna 05-03-2013 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 9655049)
I'd bet that the W-L record of teams that draft in the top 10 is poor regardless of what position they select.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp4444 (Post 9655052)
If they were drafting in the top ten, they were just bad. Maybe that has something to do with being under .500, even after drafting a tackle. One guy isn't going to fix everything.
Guys...I meant after they drafted said OT. I want to know the records of all those teams for however long that player played for them. I'm saying that record is under .500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 9655063)
Here's a nugget from the article that could probably go in a GENO!!!! thread. When you consider who the Jaguars have at QB, this isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the 2013 QB class.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...ls-debut-draft

The Jacksonville Jaguars, with Blaine Gabbert at the helm, weren't sure if any of this year's QBs would be an upgrade. LMAO
ROFLLMAOLMAOROFL And this is why I'm a Chief.

Prison Bitch 05-03-2013 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The God Hypothesis (Post 9655071)
LMAO creepy LMAO


Yeah, that's the last time I need to see that pic.

Just Passin' By 05-03-2013 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsuna (Post 9655079)
...ROFLLMAOLMAOROFL And this is why I'm a Chief.
You're a Chief because even a team with a terrible QB situation had serious questions about this year's QB class?

ChiliConCarnage 05-03-2013 12:16 PM
interesting article. The 2.6 second thing with Gabbert must make them think there is a chance.

DaKCMan AP 05-03-2013 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsuna (Post 9655079)
Guys...I meant after they drafted said OT. I want to know the records of all those teams for however long that player played for them. I'm saying that record is under .500.
I understand what you meant. I stand by my statement: I think regardless of position drafted, teams that draft in the top-10 are likely to have records below 0.500 following that draft.

Look at the 2007 draft which gives us 6 years of data:

Code:
2007        Draft                                                2007                2008                2009                2010                2011                2012                Total               
                                                        W        L        W        L        W        L        W        L        W        L        W        L        W        L        %
1        OAK        QB JaMarcus Russell                        4        12        5        11        5        11        8        8        8        8        4        12        34        62        0.354               
2        DET        WR Calvin Johnson                        7        9        0        16        2        14        6        10        10        6        4        12        29        67        0.302               
3        CLE        OT Joe Thomas                                10        6        4        12        5        11        5        11        4        12        5        11        33        63        0.344       
4        TB        DE Gaines Adams                                9        7        9        7        3        13        10        6        4        12        7        9        42        54        0.438       
5        ARI        OT Levi Brown                                8        8        9        7        10        6        5        11        8        8        5        11        45        51        0.469       
6        WAS        SS LaRon Landry                                9        7        8        8        4        12        6        10        5        11        10        6        42        54        0.438       
7        MIN        RB Adrian Peterson                        8        8        10        6        12        4        6        10        3        13        10        6        49        47        0.510               
8        ATL        DE Jamaal Anderson                        4        12        11        5        9        7        13        3        10        6        13        3        60        36        0.625               
9        MIA        WR Ted Ginn Jr.                                1        15        11        5        7        9        7        9        6        10        7        9        39        57        0.406       
10        HOU        DT Amobi Okoye                                8        8        8        8        9        7        6        10        10        6        12        4        53        43        0.552

70% of the teams have losing records 6 years following their top-10 selection.

ChiefsCountry 05-03-2013 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 9655104)
I understand what you meant. I stand by my statement: I think regardless of position drafted, teams that draft in the top-10 are likely to have records below 0.500 following that draft.

Look at the 2007 draft which gives us 6 years of data:

Code:
2007        Draft                                                2007                2008                2009                2010                2011                2012                Total               
                                                        W        L        W        L        W        L        W        L        W        L        W        L        W        L        %
1        OAK        QB JaMarcus Russell                        4        12        5        11        5        11        8        8        8        8        4        12        34        62        0.354               
2        DET        WR Calvin Johnson                        7        9        0        16        2        14        6        10        10        6        4        12        29        67        0.302               
3        CLE        OT Joe Thomas                                10        6        4        12        5        11        5        11        4        12        5        11        33        63        0.344       
4        TB        DE Gaines Adams                                9        7        9        7        3        13        10        6        4        12        7        9        42        54        0.438       
5        ARI        OT Levi Brown                                8        8        9        7        10        6        5        11        8        8        5        11        45        51        0.469       
6        WAS        SS LaRon Landry                                9        7        8        8        4        12        6        10        5        11        10        6        42        54        0.438       
7        MIN        RB Adrian Peterson                        8        8        10        6        12        4        6        10        3        13        10        6        49        47        0.510               
8        ATL        DE Jamaal Anderson                        4        12        11        5        9        7        13        3        10        6        13        3        60        36        0.625               
9        MIA        WR Ted Ginn Jr.                                1        15        11        5        7        9        7        9        6        10        7        9        39        57        0.406       
10        HOU        DT Amobi Okoye                                8        8        8        8        9        7        6        10        10        6        12        4        53        43        0.552

70% of the teams have losing records 6 years following their top-10 selection.
And only 4 of those teams drafted a quarterback in the top 10. Oakland with Russell, Detroit with Stafford, Falcons with Ryan and Skins with RGIII.

MagicHef 05-03-2013 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 9655049)
I'd bet that the W-L record of teams that draft in the top 10 is poor regardless of what position they select.
Here you go: looking at early picks (left), QBs, CBs and LBs improve their teams, other positions do not. (Zero is the average winning percentage of teams that picked at that spot, so a positive number means that the team was better than expected after the pick, and a negative number means they were worse than expected.)

http://s23.postimage.org/urtxsuby3/image.png
picture hosting

http://s24.postimage.org/8fqo6i22t/image.png
picture hosting

Hammock Parties 05-03-2013 01:53 PM
They did it because Geno Smith, oh no, it risky.

Mother****erJones 05-03-2013 02:24 PM
Sad that Jacksonville has a team, need to go to LA

-King- 05-03-2013 02:39 PM
Quote:
According to Khan's data, 71 percent of tackles drafted in the top 10 from 1995 to 2008 have made at least one Pro Bowl, while only 16 percent of tackles drafted between 11 and 32 over that period did the same. Also, top-10 tackles drafted from 1990 to 2008 averaged a staggering 70.5 starts in their first five years, a number that dipped to 58.5 starts for those drafted from 11 to 32.
Um, can't you do this with literally any position?

Mr. Laz 05-03-2013 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9655331)
Um, can't you do this with literally any position?
i dunno ... seems like a lot of high picks for QB and WR bust out.

aturnis 05-03-2013 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsuna (Post 9655041)
It was a terrible move. The fact is Khan refused to look at all the W-L records of these teams that drafted these tackles in the top 10. I bet it's well under .500. You can't justify that BS. You really can't. That pick was the last straw that made me give up on that organization.
You got a new team?

Setsuna 05-03-2013 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By (Post 9655085)
You're a Chief because even a team with a terrible QB situation had serious questions about this year's QB class?
No because they think Gabbert can amount to anything. A 5-19 starter in the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 9655640)
You got a new team?
Yes. Yours.

RealSNR 05-03-2013 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 9655640)
You got a new team?
Yup. A team that drafted an OT at the top of the draft. Just like the Jags did.

I actually like Setsuna, but I do find it to be an odd choice of a new team

the Talking Can 05-03-2013 06:05 PM
jags and chiefs are the worst teams in the league...is your answer to why they drafted that way


bad teams do dumb things

jags trading away Barkley for a 7th is just epic ****ing stupidity

Setsuna 05-03-2013 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9655652)
Yup. A team that drafted an OT at the top of the draft. Just like the Jags did.

I actually like Setsuna, but I do find it to be an odd new choice of teams.
Well I never really had a team in the NFL anyway. Never wanted to be a Jag fan when they were created. I chose the Chiefs for their passionate fans, pretty much just all you guys. Specifically the SOC thing made a big impression on me.

beach tribe 05-03-2013 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsuna (Post 9655079)
Guys...I meant after they drafted said OT. I want to know the records of all those teams for however long that player played for them. I'm saying that record is under .500.


ROFLLMAOLMAOROFL And this is why I'm a Chief.
Dude. **** off. If you can just change teams anytime you want, you were never a Jag to begin with and you sure as shit are not a Chief.

Tribal Warfare 05-03-2013 06:09 PM
BTW, if it hasn't been mentioned yet it does seem the University of Virginia OL have been the beaten redheaded stepchildren lately.

Psyko Tek 05-03-2013 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsp4444 (Post 9655052)
If they were drafting in the top ten, they were just bad. Maybe that has something to do with being under .500, even after drafting a tackle. One guy isn't going to fix everything.
**** yeah!!!!
Andy Luck proved that



K there was no luck this year

Setsuna 05-03-2013 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9655657)
Dude. **** off. If you can just change teams anytime you want, you were never a Jag to begin with and you sure as shit are not a Chief.
:shake:

RealSNR 05-03-2013 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 9655657)
Dude. **** off. If you can just change teams anytime you want, you were never a Jag to begin with and you sure as shit are not a Chief.
I'm not sure if I agree with that. It's a person's decision if he wants to spend his hours following a team's news, posting on a fan message board, and watching its games. I'm not sure what qualifies for fandom or not. I don't think you acquire a favorite team through the Sorting Hat or something else similar to a binding declaration/pact at youth.

It's just a game.

Tombstone RJ 05-03-2013 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsuna (Post 9655079)
ROFLLMAOLMAOROFL And this is why I'm a Chief.
That's nothing to brag about...

notorious 05-03-2013 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9655686)
I'm not sure if I agree with that. It's a person's decision if he wants to spend his hours following a team's news, posting on a fan message board, and watching its games. I'm not sure what qualifies for fandom or not. I don't think you acquire a favorite team through the Sorting Hat or something else similar to a binding declaration/pact at youth.

It's just a game.
:D

Geno Smith Sucks!

(It's just a game ;))

RealSNR 05-03-2013 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious (Post 9655696)
:D

Geno Smith Sucks!

(It's just a game ;))
So is rape.

*wink*

beach tribe 05-03-2013 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9655686)
I'm not sure if I agree with that. It's a person's decision if he wants to spend his hours following a team's news, posting on a fan message board, and watching its games. I'm not sure what qualifies for fandom or not. I don't think you acquire a favorite team through the Sorting Hat or something else similar to a binding declaration/pact at youth.

It's just a game.
The qualifier in my mind is sticking with them even after they break your ****ing heart repeatedly. This will not be his last stop.

Mr. Laz 05-06-2013 09:24 AM
NFL: AroundTheLeague ‏@NFL_ATL 2h
Joeckel admits "comfort zone" is playing left tackle. But No. 2 pick expected to play on right side as rook
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More

Rasputin 05-06-2013 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The God Hypothesis (Post 9655071)
LMAO creepy LMAO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 9655083)
Yeah, that's the last time I need to see that pic.
Says Prison Bitch..

MahiMike 05-06-2013 09:59 AM
71% went to the pro bowl? Can't be.

/non True Fan

JimBaker48.8 05-06-2013 10:19 AM
It was a relatively safe pick in a relatively weak Draft, but given the Jags already had one very good LT, maybe it was too safe ? As far as the Chiefs go, I thought that Fischer was very impressive at the Senior Bowl and he was clearly more athletic than Joeckel, but still maybe a little more uncertain for the Chiefs given that the Aggie was tested and proven against far better competition in the Big 12 & SEC while in college than Fischer was.
And anybody else catch Jags new owner Shahid Khan on 60 Minutes last night ? BTW, those NFL owners' meetings gotta be tough crowds for Muslim Khan given nearly half of the owners are Jews ?

Setsuna 05-06-2013 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBaker48.8 (Post 9661543)
It was a relatively safe pick in a relatively weak Draft, but given the Jags already had one very good LT, maybe it was too safe ? As far as the Chiefs go, I thought that Fischer was very impressive at the Senior Bowl and he was clearly more athletic than Joeckel, but still maybe a little more uncertain for the Chiefs given that the Aggie was tested and proven against far better competition in the Big 12 & SEC while in college than Fischer was.
And anybody else catch Jags new owner Shahid Khan on 60 Minutes last night ? BTW, those NFL owners' meetings gotta be tough crowds for Muslim Khan given nearly half of the owners are Jews ?
I'm certain his mustache silenced the naysayers from the get go.

KC Hawks 05-06-2013 12:29 PM
SNR was sorted into Hufflepuff.


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