Who Has The Leverage For Trent McDuffie Extension?

[fuzzy]

I've seen people on social media and other websites say that the Chiefs messed up by not extending McDuffie right after the Super Bowl. The logic being that the price is only going to go up. First, that assumes that McDuffie and his agent were willing to immediately sign and we don't know that.

Second, does McDuffie actually have the leverage here? Let's assume McDuffie wants to reset the corner market. That will be over 30M APY after we just recently saw Stingley sign his deal.

The Chiefs are paying 4M in 2025 for McDuffie. And 13M for McDuffie in 2026. That's what he's under contract for. His name is on the dotted line. Then in 2027 we can franchise tag for a below market value price. And we could even tag him again in 2028 for probably below market price. That's 4 full seasons of below market pay.

If Veach decided to play hardball here we could delay McDuffie's free agency until he is 29 years old without ever having to pay him market value.

Are there any NFL teams who want to break the bank for a 29 year corner? This isn't QB or OL or DL where guys can play forever and remain elite well into their 30s. A 29 year old corner is not a good candidate for a long term, mega deal unless the guaranteed money is very low.

Makes you really consider, it seems like the Chiefs have all the leverage here. Not McDuffie.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

No player(as far as I know) has ever played with the team on a 2nd tag year.

Originally Posted by fuzzy

Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins. Which is no problem because QBs have all the leverage. They can play forever and they are more important to the success or failure of a team.

Those were special situations and QB's. There is not a chance in hell that he plays on a 2nd year tag. None.

[fuzzy]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Those were special situations and QB's. There is not a chance in hell that he plays on a 2nd year tag. None.

Depends on what McDuffie's demands are.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by fuzzy

Depends on what McDuffie's demands are.

Like DJ said, add in 3 years of control. Right now do a 5 year/$121 deal and call it a day.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Tyreek was also a very unique player.

McDuffie is a very GOOD player. Maybe a great player. But I was actually thinking about this in your Rice thread. Tyreek was a great player with HoF traits. That's a guy you go ahead and sign. It's typically what we've done.

Rice may prove to have great production but doesn't have HoF traits.

Now where's McDuffie fit in there? Boy, I just don't know. His speed is good -- not elite. His size has been attacked on the boundary.

So how much weight do you put on the fact that he's aggressive, smart and can gear up/down like nobody's business? Can that be a suitable proxy for a lack of 'explosive' traits or plus size?

It's just a hard question to answer. The guys we've paid at/near the top of the market have been guys who have had Pro Bowl production AND HoF physical attributes. Creed is a bit of a strange case because man, how do you define HoF traits for a C? Likewise with Smith at OG. I really don't know. A guy like Bolton didn't GET that top of the market money some were thinking he'd pursue.

The only commonality I can find on the guys we choose to really take care of is that these are guys who have produced at a high level and who's raw physical talent is so loud that you won't risk losing them.

Is Rice that guy? Man, I'm not sure he is. Is McDuffie that guy? The world wonders...

McDuffie also seems to be about as clean off the field as you can have/get as well as being a "I just ****ing love football and everything about it".

You know you're gonna get from him about everything.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by PatMahomesIsGod

Agents are advising top tier clients not to sign second contracts early.

This is a moot point.

'Advise' whatever you want.

Now go hand McDuffie a contract and say "Hey, if you sign this I'll write you a check for $35 million that you can deposit into your bank TODAY..."

Maybe he listens to that agents advice. Or maybe he says "**** off, sport. YOU walk away from a $35 million bonus to play out a contract in a sport there it may all end in week 1...."

Nobody's saying we'll low ball him. We're saying that if you put a MASSIVE pile of money in his pocket today, you might be able to get him to take $120 million over the life of the deal instead of $140 million. And take a lot of risk out of the equation in the exchange.

Because again - we have him LOCKED IN at $60 millionish over the next 3 years. If we offer him $120 million, he's not gonna go out there, play out that deal and secure $180 million instead. That's simply not the reality of the NFL. Not for a CB who's rights we can control through age 28.

Take $120 million and you MIGHT be leaving $20 million on the table in your prime earning years. Obviously that's not nothing...but neither is having a signing bonus NOW instead of 2 years from now. That's $20 million more than he'll earn over the next 24 months. Time value alone gives that value.

Any agent telling his client not to listen at $120 million is doing him one hell of a disservice. It's absolutely a conversation worth having and the guy sitting at a desk taking phonecalls isn't the one who's putting that livelihood on the line every Sunday.

It's a hell of a lot easier to gamble with somebody else's knee...

[Jewish Rabbi]

Originally Posted by fuzzy

Bit creepy since my sister is 14.

Get an older sister then pussy

[Dunerdr]

Can we take fuzzies fan privileges away?

[fuzzy]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

'Advise' whatever you want.

Now go hand McDuffie a contract and say "Hey, if you sign this I'll write you a check for $35 million that you can deposit into your bank TODAY..."

Maybe he listens to that agents advice. Or maybe he says "**** off, sport. YOU walk away from a $35 million bonus to play out a contract in a sport there it may all end in week 1...."

Nobody's saying we'll low ball him. We're saying that if you put a MASSIVE pile of money in his pocket today, you might be able to get him to take $120 million over the life of the deal instead of $140 million. And take a lot of risk out of the equation in the exchange.

Because again - we have him LOCKED IN at $60 millionish over the next 3 years. If we offer him $120 million, he's not gonna go out there, play out that deal and secure $180 million instead. That's simply not the reality of the NFL. Not for a CB who's rights we can control through age 28.

Take $120 million and you MIGHT be leaving $20 million on the table in your prime earning years. Obviously that's not nothing...but neither is having a signing bonus NOW instead of 2 years from now. That's $20 million more than he'll earn over the next 24 months. Time value alone gives that value.

Any agent telling his client not to listen at $120 million is doing him one hell of a disservice. It's absolutely a conversation worth having and the guy sitting at a desk taking phonecalls isn't the one who's putting that livelihood on the line every Sunday.

It's a hell of a lot easier to gamble with somebody else's knee...

Cornerback more than any other position on defense is a young man's position. Most cornerbacks are pretty much done playing at the All Pro level by the time they are late 20s. It's just a brutally short prime.

I have no idea what he and his agent are coming to the table with. But at age 25 and with 3 or even 4 years of control left he doesn't have the leverage to say I want more than Stingley and I'm not budging. Ok, fine. We can just let you play out the contract and tags for cheap.

In poker you play the hand you are dealt. And a corner doesn't have the same hand as a pass rusher.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by PatMahomesIsGod

Agents are advising top tier clients not to sign second contracts early.

This is a moot point.

If you’re a corner you sign that deal now. There’s a lot of variance at that position. It’s one of the least forgiving positions in the NFL.

If McDuffie gets a bad injury like an ACL, his value drops. If he got the injury Josh Simmons sustained, his career might be over.

These guys have to keep up with the best athletes on the field. The fastest player in combine history is a WR. One injury makes that edge that much harder. Technique matters, but I would argue there isn’t a position on the field that needs athleticism more than corner.

I’d sign that deal now. Corners have the most to lose waiting.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by fuzzy

I've seen people on social media and other websites say that the Chiefs messed up by not extending McDuffie right after the Super Bowl. The logic being that the price is only going to go up. First, that assumes that McDuffie and his agent were willing to immediately sign and we don't know that.

Second, does McDuffie actually have the leverage here? Let's assume McDuffie wants to reset the corner market. That will be over 30M APY after we just recently saw Stingley sign his deal.

The Chiefs are paying 4M in 2025 for McDuffie. And 13M for McDuffie in 2026. That's what he's under contract for. His name is on the dotted line. Then in 2027 we can franchise tag for a below market value price. And we could even tag him again in 2028 for probably below market price. That's 4 full seasons of below market pay.

If Veach decided to play hardball here we could delay McDuffie's free agency until he is 29 years old without ever having to pay him market value.

Are there any NFL teams who want to break the bank for a 29 year corner? This isn't QB or OL or DL where guys can play forever and remain elite well into their 30s. A 29 year old corner is not a good candidate for a long term, mega deal unless the guaranteed money is very low.

Makes you really consider, it seems like the Chiefs have all the leverage here. Not McDuffie.

If Nohl Williams is good, we get more leverage.

[DJ's left nut]

And McDuffie doesn't have a big athleticism gap he can lean on should he suffer a serious injury to a knee.

Worse still, his party trick is stop/start. He's elite at it. If that knee goes and that's even the slightly bit compromised...well, at that point he's a physical CB with size and deep speed limitations. He becomes an ordinary NCB and his earnings potential is gonna about halve.

Yeah - you don't walk away from that deal.

Oh you MIGHT beat it. Stay healthy, continue to play at this level. It's possible.

But to what gain? At what risk? And again, the time value is real. That's $25-35 million (plus probably another $6-8 million or so in base) over the next two seasons. Conservatively it's $30 million in his pocket vs. $15 million over the next 2 seasons. And probably at least $25 million the moment he puts pen to paper.

If his agent is dogmatic enough to say "nah, **** all that..." then he has a REALLY bad agent.

I'll gladly undercut his rate if Trent wants to give me a call...

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BWillie

If Nohl Williams is good, we get more leverage.

Uh...no.

I mean if Williams is GREAT we might. But c'mon fellas, lets still acknowledge that Williams was seen pretty much universally as a 3rd round pick. Which is fine -- that's where we got him. Solid value in that we got a guy in the mid/late 3rd who was generally thought of as an early 3rd guy.

And Williams was the 11th corner taken in the draft. Again, that doesn't mean he's not going to be able to play really well for us.

But those things mean that this guy probably isn't gonna be a guy who comes along and when we say to a guy who's made All Pro teams "Oh sure, Trent -- try to play hardball. We have Noehl ****in' Williams to replace you..." makes him stand up and pay attention.

It has to be a credible threat. I see a scenario where Williams is a hell of a complement to McDuffie but I don't see any chance in the world he's ever a legitimate replacement for him. And McDuffie knows that.

These guys aren't stupid. They see what we see.

[Smed1065]

Originally Posted by fuzzy

No, my dad had a 2nd child at 45.

Figures. U R an idiot.

[fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

Get an older sister then pussy

Sorry about your vaginal cramps.

[rydogg58]

Aren't you the dumb **** that said Watson was a better corner than Mcduffie?