Which QB is better: Dak Prescott or Lamar Jackson?

[Deberg_1990]

Was just talking about this with coworkers.

Most agreed Dak overall was better. Both will be looking to get paid soon.

Who’s the better QB?

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Lamar ran for over 1200 yds, had 7 rushing TDs and 36 passing TDs w not one Pro Bowl WR and you guys think Dak is better than him?

Wow....

Dak throws the football pretty well.

[BlackOp]

Originally Posted by jaa1025

Neither? I'd trade both for picks and try to draft the next elite QB. I'm not paying 80 or 90% of Mahomes type money to above average QB's.

This...both of these QBs need everything to "break right" and they could potentially get you to a SB. They would need a stellar supporting cast and top-notch coaching too.

Once you pay them them "elite" money...you've hitched your wagon to a "maybe we might get lucky one year" situation. The problem is they arent cheap anymore...so there goes your supporting cast money.

It's tricky...Garoppolo made it last year...but he had everything I mentioned in the first line. Eli Manning is another example...

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Plus, the level of talent and coaching rises significantly in the playoffs.

QB’s often face defensive wrinkles that weren’t seen on film and everyone’s game, from the coaching staff to the last guy on the 53, is at its highest level because everyone knows what’s at stake (especially monetarily).

Yep.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

That's a fair criticism but when he is on he is on. You don't run for over 1k yards and throw 36 tds and just 6 ints in a season because you are an average QB, dude can ball

You do when your surrounding cast is better than 75% of the NFL, it's pretty easy to rack up big stats.

It's interesting that you use the phrase "dude can ball". Sounds like the playground. That might be the best comparison actually.

In many ways, he looks like a playground player on a football field. When the opponent is actually organized and disciplined, that stuff doesn't work.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

You do when your surrounding cast is better than 75% of the NFL, it's pretty easy to rack up big stats.

It's interesting that you use the phrase "dude can ball". Sounds like the playground. That might be the best comparison actually.

In many ways, he looks like a playground player on a football field. When the opponent is actually organized and disciplined, that stuff doesn't work.

Mahomes plays playground football too at times. The hell you talking about?

Because Jackson is black and he can run he is a playground player and not a QB? That's ridiculous. Its 2020 not every QB is going to be a pocket passer. If that was case he'd wouldn't have thrown for 36 TDs and 6 INTs w garbage at WR last season.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Mahomes plays playground football too at times. The hell you talking about?

Because Jackson is black and he can run he is a playground player and not a QB? That's ridiculous. Its 2020 not every QB is going to be a pocket passer. If that was case he'd wouldn't have thrown for 36 TDs and 6 INTs w garbage at WR last season.

If you want to beat great teams and win in the postseason, you have to be able to play the QB position. It has always been so. It will ever be so.

Being mobile is not "playground football". There have been many QBs who used mobility as part of their game win Super Bowls. The difference is whether mobility is something you use to augment your passing or if mobility is basically your whole game.

The latter has never succeeded at the NFL level and it never will. The QB has to be able to read and break down defenses on the fly and throw the ball accurately.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Mahomes plays playground football too at times. The hell you talking about?

Because Jackson is black and he can run he is a playground player and not a QB? That's ridiculous. Its 2020 not every QB is going to be a pocket passer. If that was case he'd wouldn't have thrown for 36 TDs and 6 INTs w garbage at WR last season.

Mahomes rushed for 272 yards in 2018 and 218 yards in 2019.

That does NOT make him a "running QB" nor does that make him a "playground player".

Alex Smith never had less than 300 yards rushing while in KC and no one would call him a "playground player".

[DJ's left nut]

Dane made a great point regarding 'swapping' Jackson and Dak.

People want to focus on Jackson's weapons on offense but they're missing the forest for the trees. Look at Jackson's DEFENSE because it's absolutely critical to Jackson's ability to play the kind of game he has to play.

Jackson cannot win football games w/ a below average defense. He'd have won like 4 games on that 2018 Chiefs squad. You give him even an average defense that will occasionally give up 17 points in the first half and he's maybe a .500 player.

In 28 games as a starter he's had FIVE games where his team has given up 14 or more first half points. He's 1-4 in those games. In his wins the Ravens average 8 points given up in the first half. That's it.

And folks, 14 first half points in the modern era ain't exactly difficult. When your quarterback loses 80% of the games that your team has the audacity to surrender 2 first half touchdowns in...geez, that's an issue.

Lamar Jackson's unlikely to EVER have great weapons on offense because the cap/draft capital has to go to keeping that defense no worse than top 10 to keep him in positions where he can succeed.

It's more than just what you have to do offensively to make him successful (simple 'system quarterback' analysis) - it's also a question of how you have to build your DEFENSE to put him in favorable game scripts.

He's just a hell of a lot more limited than people want to acknowledge.

[O.city]

Mahomes runs to pick up the occasional first down or to escape. It's not a big part of his game.

You win throwing the football in the NFL. Always.

[Perineum Ripper]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

Mahomes plays playground football too at times. The hell you talking about?

Because Jackson is black and he can run he is a playground player and not a QB? That's ridiculous. Its 2020 not every QB is going to be a pocket passer. If that was case he'd wouldn't have thrown for 36 TDs and 6 INTs w garbage at WR last season.

What does him being black have to do with anything?

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by Eleazar

If you want to beat great teams and win in the postseason, you have to be able to play the QB position. It has always been so. It will ever be so.

Being mobile is not "playground football". There have been many QBs who used mobility as part of their game win Super Bowls. The difference is whether mobility is something you use to augment your passing or if mobility is basically your whole game.

The latter has never succeeded at the NFL level and it never will. The QB has to be able to read and break down defenses on the fly and throw the ball accurately.

That's not what I meant. I meant playground football as in doing things coaches tell you not to do. Mahomes obviously makes it work though.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

That's not what I meant. I meant playground football as in doing things coaches tell you not to do. Mahomes obviously makes it work though.

Mahomes reads the whole field well and can make the right decisions on the fly and deliver the ball accurately. He uses mobility to extend plays or to take what the defense is giving him on the ground. His talents allow him to execute an offense at a high level. He doesn't need an offense designed around his shortcomings.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Mahomes runs to pick up the occasional first down or to escape. It's not a big part of his game.

You win throwing the football in the NFL. Always.

By my definition of playground football, Mahomes actually does it MORE than Jackson.

Playground ball means doing things out of structure. Mahomes does that a LOT but he's incredible at it.

Jackson succeeds mostly within the structure of Roman's offense. Oh sure, occasionally he pulls it down and runs, but even that's not really 'run around, point at stuff and hope someone gets open..." - it's more reaction than it is what I would call playground ball.

If I'm putting conventional tags on an unconventional quarterback, I'd say that Jackson is a game managing, system QB. He's not a perfect fit for either of those labels, but when you start to look at what needs to happen in a game for him to get the W, he both needs to be working from ahead or very close behind (typical game manager stuff) and he needs to be operating in a system specifically designed to get him shorter throws right in front of him while taking advantage of his legs.

He's not the improvisational gunslinger that I associate with playground passers. He's really a game-managing system quarterback.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Dane made a great point regarding 'swapping' Jackson and Dak.

People want to focus on Jackson's weapons on offense but they're missing the forest for the trees. Look at Jackson's DEFENSE because it's absolutely critical to Jackson's ability to play the kind of game he has to play.

Jackson cannot win football games w/ a below average defense. He'd have won like 4 games on that 2018 Chiefs squad. You give him even an average defense that will occasionally give up 17 points in the first half and he's maybe a .500 player.

In 28 games as a starter he's had FIVE games where his team has given up 14 or more first half points. He's 1-4 in those games. In his wins the Ravens average 8 points given up in the first half. That's it.

And folks, 14 first half points in the modern era ain't exactly difficult. When your quarterback loses 80% of the games that your team has the audacity to surrender 2 first half touchdowns in...geez, that's an issue.

Lamar Jackson's unlikely to EVER have great weapons on offense because the cap/draft capital has to go to keeping that defense no worse than top 10 to keep him in positions where he can succeed.

It's more than just what you have to do offensively to make him successful (simple 'system quarterback' analysis) - it's also a question of how you have to build your DEFENSE to put him in favorable game scripts.

He's just a hell of a lot more limited than people want to acknowledge.

Ahem.

I'm not talking about Dak. If you could read, you'd see I wouldn't take either one of them.

But nice job trying to deflect.

First of all, Marino won 3 playoff games in his first 4 years in the league. So that excuse doesn't work.

And as far as weapons, Lamar had the #3 scoring defense in the league that allowed only 15 TD's all season and forced 25 turnovers.

So much for not having any support.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by mac459

What does him being black have to do with anything?

For guys like him, it has EVERYTHING to do with it.