Jones...keep or get a haul? - Page 2

Chris Meck · 12-05-2022, 07:38 AM

I'm just going to put this here.

But I see a lot of parallels to the Hill situation. Unquestionably elite player surrounded by JAGs. Potential huge haul in draft capital as well as salary cap relief.

Jones plus whatever dudes isn't getting it done. We won't be drafting in position to properly re-stock LT or DE if we keep him, and we can't afford top of the market replacements.

Maybe we should move him. What kind of haul do you think we could get?

**The Franchise** · 12-05-2022, 10:29 AM

I'm on the side of "**** trading Chris Jones". Making the defensive line worse isn't the answer.

O.city · 12-05-2022, 10:31 AM

I'm just not on board with trading impact players. Yes, you get picks and such back, but then you've gotta hit picks in a crap shoot of a draft.

**The Franchise** · 12-05-2022, 10:33 AM

Keep Jones and attack the defensive line in the draft and FA.

Wharton and Saunders are the only ones I'm bringing back and cutting Clark is priority #1. I'd maybe bring back Dunlap but that's only towards the beginning of the season if you need that extra veteran body along the line.

Nightfyre · 12-05-2022, 11:50 AM

Karlaftis is actually a very productive SDE for us already. But we really need a pure pass rush presence alongside Jones.

It can actually be a 3 tech if they are willing to play Jones outside on pass rushing downs. We also could benefit from a nose who can play both the run and still generate pressure. We are merely adequate there.
Karlaftis, a better nose, a pass rushing three tech, and Jones outside is a lot of beef. I see why they keep toying with Jones outside.

DRM08 · 12-05-2022, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm just not on board with trading impact players. Yes, you get picks and such back, but then you've gotta hit picks in a crap shoot of a draft.

Save a lot of money in the cap as well. Jones has disappeared in a lot of big games. He's creeping up on age 30 and plays a very physical position. Giving him massive money and having him disappear in all the games instead of just the big games? You have another Frank Clark or Justin Houston on your hands.

RunKC · 12-05-2022, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

How about actually make them?

Juan Thornhill is terrified of tackling good players. The guy ****ing stopped running and it cost him the tackle. He was scared. Bottom line.

And people wonder why we drafted Bryan Cook

The Ja'Marr Chase difference. @Real10jayy__

📺: #KCvsCIN on CBS
📱: Stream on NFL+ https://t.co/KRUwj1CkWe pic.twitter.com/30wfEzzUOM
— NFL (@NFL) December 5, 2022

O.city · 12-05-2022, 01:41 PM

I mean, he's clearly not scared. He made a bad play, he's not scared.

Chris Meck · 12-05-2022, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Keep Jones and attack the defensive line in the draft and FA.

Wharton and Saunders are the only ones I'm bringing back and cutting Clark is priority #1. I'd maybe bring back Dunlap but that's only towards the beginning of the season if you need that extra veteran body along the line.

With what, though? Pick #30 again? What money?

Megatron96 · 12-05-2022, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Juan Thornhill is terrified of tackling good players. The guy ****ing stopped running and it cost him the tackle. He was scared. Bottom line.

And people wonder why we drafted Bryan Cook

The Ja'Marr Chase difference. @Real10jayy__

📺: #KCvsCIN on CBS
📱: Stream on NFL+ https://t.co/KRUwj1CkWe pic.twitter.com/30wfEzzUOM
— NFL (@NFL) December 5, 2022

2 seconds from snap to throw. No one's getting to Burrow if he can throw that fast.

Chargem · 12-05-2022, 04:15 PM

I think trading Chris Jones is a much harder decision than the Tyreek one.

I could really see the offense functioning well without Tyreek, and it really was at breaking point from a roster standpoint, there were just too many holes elsewhere if you kept Hill.

The defense is already sub par WITH Jones, you better have a concrete plan in place for how to make the defense better if you do go ahead and pull the trigger on trading him.

Could I see the defense being better without him? Sure, if you can get say Javon Hargrave with the freed up cap and a top 15 pick to spend on an edge.

But I also think there are enough resources to build a much better D Line while keeping him, and I think I lean towards keeping him and just trying to add talent around him. Hopefully Karlaftis and the secondary take a step forward next year, and then its better to have the talent rather than a project that might need a year or two of seasoning before they are productive.

Chiefspants · 12-05-2022, 04:23 PM

Without Jones, who is the defensive gamechanger that can singlehandedly lead our defense to a Super Bowl championship?

DJ's left nut · 12-05-2022, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I mean, he's clearly not scared. He made a bad play, he's not scared.

He was worried about Chase toasting him to the edge if he came in too hot, IMO.

You can see him hesitate with Chase's move.

Yeah - it was a bad play - he's gotta keep coming downhill and trust his teammates to cover his flanks. But it wasn't a bad play because of a business decision. He simply bit on a juke he had no business biting on.

**The Franchise** · 12-05-2022, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

With what, though? Pick #30 again? What money?

Restructures and cuts will get us money. And for all the talk about how much we suck now…we won’t be picking at #30.

JPH83 · 12-06-2022, 02:54 AM

I wouldn't trade him. It's possible we could get cheaper and better across the DL through a trade, it's also possible we have a collection of average players and absolutely no-one on that line that can get to the QB.

At present we have Jones and a collection of dead bodies. Clark going frees up some money to get cheaper, younger and better. No, it won't be an elite DE, we can't afford those anyway, but it will be an improvement - an Omenihu type. IMO we then need 2 things, a genuine nose tackle and a fast/bendy situational pass-rusher at DE. There will absolutely be the latter at the back end of the first in the draft. They won't be stout against the run but we won't need them to be. There will also be nose tackle options in the 3rd and 4th, they just won't be more than giant lumps, that's fine.

Jones alongside a fattie, plus a fast rusher and an Omenihu type gives us a line that is harder to run on and might actually get to the QB. That could easily be middle of the pack, which is what we need, especially if Karlaftis improves upon a pass-rush win rate of, what, 11%, which we better hope he does.

O.city · 12-06-2022, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He was worried about Chase toasting him to the edge if he came in too hot, IMO.

You can see him hesitate with Chase's move.

Yeah - it was a bad play - he's gotta keep coming downhill and trust his teammates to cover his flanks. But it wasn't a bad play because of a business decision. He simply bit on a juke he had no business biting on.

He's got McDuffie coming from the inside there, just make Chase turn inside.

12-05-2022, 07:38 AM
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1964910	Jones...keep or get a haul? I'm just going to put this here. But I see a lot of parallels to the Hill situation. Unquestionably elite player surrounded by JAGs. Potential huge haul in draft capital as well as salary cap relief. Jones plus whatever dudes isn't getting it done. We won't be drafting in position to properly re-stock LT or DE if we keep him, and we can't afford top of the market replacements. Maybe we should move him. What kind of haul do you think we could get?
Posts: 17,461

12-05-2022, 10:29 AM	#16
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $3135047	I'm on the side of "**** trading Chris Jones". Making the defensive line worse isn't the answer.
Posts: 92,017	2 0

12-05-2022, 10:31 AM	#17
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2774064	I'm just not on board with trading impact players. Yes, you get picks and such back, but then you've gotta hit picks in a crap shoot of a draft.
Posts: 81,220

12-05-2022, 10:33 AM	#18
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $3135047	Keep Jones and attack the defensive line in the draft and FA. Wharton and Saunders are the only ones I'm bringing back and cutting Clark is priority #1. I'd maybe bring back Dunlap but that's only towards the beginning of the season if you need that extra veteran body along the line.
Posts: 92,017

12-05-2022, 11:50 AM	#19
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $3668849	Karlaftis is actually a very productive SDE for us already. But we really need a pure pass rush presence alongside Jones. It can actually be a 3 tech if they are willing to play Jones outside on pass rushing downs. We also could benefit from a nose who can play both the run and still generate pressure. We are merely adequate there. Karlaftis, a better nose, a pass rushing three tech, and Jones outside is a lot of beef. I see why they keep toying with Jones outside.
Posts: 18,541

12-05-2022, 01:41 PM	#22
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2774064	I mean, he's clearly not scared. He made a bad play, he's not scared.
Posts: 81,220

12-05-2022, 04:15 PM	#25
Chargem Veteran Join Date: Feb 2018 Casino cash: $3940400	I think trading Chris Jones is a much harder decision than the Tyreek one. I could really see the offense functioning well without Tyreek, and it really was at breaking point from a roster standpoint, there were just too many holes elsewhere if you kept Hill. The defense is already sub par WITH Jones, you better have a concrete plan in place for how to make the defense better if you do go ahead and pull the trigger on trading him. Could I see the defense being better without him? Sure, if you can get say Javon Hargrave with the freed up cap and a top 15 pick to spend on an edge. But I also think there are enough resources to build a much better D Line while keeping him, and I think I lean towards keeping him and just trying to add talent around him. Hopefully Karlaftis and the secondary take a step forward next year, and then its better to have the talent rather than a project that might need a year or two of seasoning before they are productive.
Posts: 2,275

12-05-2022, 04:23 PM	#26
Chiefspants World's Best Boss Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bronco Country Casino cash: $5654654	Without Jones, who is the defensive gamechanger that can singlehandedly lead our defense to a Super Bowl championship?
Posts: 18,353

12-06-2022, 02:54 AM	#29
JPH83 Veteran Join Date: Feb 2021 Casino cash: $2540400	I wouldn't trade him. It's possible we could get cheaper and better across the DL through a trade, it's also possible we have a collection of average players and absolutely no-one on that line that can get to the QB. At present we have Jones and a collection of dead bodies. Clark going frees up some money to get cheaper, younger and better. No, it won't be an elite DE, we can't afford those anyway, but it will be an improvement - an Omenihu type. IMO we then need 2 things, a genuine nose tackle and a fast/bendy situational pass-rusher at DE. There will absolutely be the latter at the back end of the first in the draft. They won't be stout against the run but we won't need them to be. There will also be nose tackle options in the 3rd and 4th, they just won't be more than giant lumps, that's fine. Jones alongside a fattie, plus a fast rusher and an Omenihu type gives us a line that is harder to run on and might actually get to the QB. That could easily be middle of the pack, which is what we need, especially if Karlaftis improves upon a pass-rush win rate of, what, 11%, which we better hope he does.
Posts: 3,534