2018 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018




Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen.

Outfielders:
Dexter Fowler
Tommy Pham
Marcell Ozuna

Infielders:
Matt Carpenter
Paul DeJong
Kolten Wong

Catchers:
Yadier Molina
Francisco Pena

Utility:
Jose Martinez
Greg Garcia
Yairo Munoz
Jedd Gyrko

Starters:
Carlos Martinez
Michael Wacha
Luke Weaver
Miles Mikolas
Jack Flaherty

Relievers:
Dominic Leone
Tyler Lyons
Bud Norris
Brett Cecil
Sam Tuivailala
Matt Bowman
Jordan Hicks
Mike Mayers

On the DL:
Adam Wainwright
Luke Gregerson

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

So BRC, you watched Tony LaRussa hand off a WS team only to miss the playoffs for 3 years in a row now and you are still trying to bad mouth a team that went to 3 straight NLCS?

its all I got.

And the 4 WS championships won by my team in my lifetime, including one in person.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Because 5-win players making $14 million grow on trees.

Carpenter is fools gold, even you should realize this by now.

When he gets cold, he is like a ****ing iceberg. For looooooong periods of time.

He was absolute garbage when they needed him down the stretch. I know he carried them for a period but it doesn't matter if in the end when you NEED him he sucks ass.

He has always and always will be a head case.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

1) They passed up Donaldson for nothing but salary, and he's hit .280/.404/.511 this month. Maybe that would be an improvement over Gyorko's .227/.333/.273. Just maybe.
.

I've posted on here so many times that I've lost count that Gyrko sucks and I wanted him gone. You and DJ were telling me Gryko was a great hitter. Now you want him gone? Or am I confused about your opinion and it was all DJ?

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

2) They traded Pham at the nadir of his value, and in the second half, he has a wRC of 171, including 205 this month. Basically, since going to Tampa, Pham has been the third best hitter in baseball. I ****ing told you guys.... But hey, gotta keep running Dexter Fowler out there to keep losing you games and then stuff an oaf like Martinez in RF once the $80 million albatross blows a tire.

Pham has had these runs when he plays like an All-Star. He always returns to his norm. JAG. Now a 30+ year old JAG. He is what he is at this point.
You also leave out why he was traded, the crowded outfield and giving a chance for Bader to play. Bader has a 2+ WAR just for his defense. This team needs his defense badly.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

3) They overvalued their glut of average arms in the minors and wouldn't package them to get Yelich, instead getting Ozuna, and there is a five win difference between those players (along with years of additional control for the former)..

I think the young pitchers just got tired. Most pitched past the standard innings increase of 20% yearly.

Every report, every one from every source says Yelich wasn't available. Were the Cardinals supposed to sit on their hands and then wait, wait some more until he maybe becomes available? They shouldn't have waited. The Cardinals "wait" too long way too many times. They need to be more aggressive in the off season. I'm not faulting them for not waiting.

Also, I heard Rosenthal on a MLB tv panel discussing if the Cardinals could have done more at the trade deadline. He said if they had waited it would have took, Flaherty, Bader, O'neil and Alacantra. Thats a damn steep price.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

4) Their hand-picked manager couldn't realize that luck was catching up to Norris, who blew the first two games of the month in spectacular, yet obvious fashion.

That is a fault of all managers. This is "their" guy and they stick with them. Maddon who was a hero as late as last year to Cub fans are now calling for a new manager because of this tendency.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

5) Their "fixes" were papering over drywall holes using bullshit as an adhesive.

I agree. They should have done more at the deadline but lets be real, none of the moves would have made a difference for us in beating the Brewers in a NLDCS. There is just too much of a gap in talent

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Oh, and they might have just given the Yankees a first baseman for the next half decade for Chasen Shreve and Giovanny Gallegos.
****ing idiots.

WTF? Now Voit is an All-Star? GTFO

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by jd1020

So BRC, you watched Tony LaRussa hand off a WS team only to miss the playoffs for 3 years in a row now and you are still trying to bad mouth a team that went to 3 straight NLCS?

Newsflash: The Cubs are still a really good team that needs minor tweaks with a closer and a leadoff bat... along with a new hitting coach that can actually teach awareness like "Hey Bryant, dont swing because our Manager pinch ran Gore for Rizzo, instead of for Happ 2 innings ago, and they arent going to throw you a strike."

Can you identify which is Jose Quintana ($9M), Jon Lester ($23M), and Jacob Junis ($0.5M)?


57 qualified pitchers this year, this is the Fangraphs WAR leaderboard:



49. 184.2ip 7.38k/9 3.17bb/9 80%lob 4.39fip 1.6war
50. 174.1ip 8.16k/9 3.51bb/9 77%lob 4.43fip 1.4war
52. 177.0ip 8.34k/9 2.19bb/9 76%lob 4.64fip 1.3war

[jd1020]

Hey PB, can you honestly identify a position where some low cost player doesn't compare statistically to someone more expensive?

You are trying to suggest that the Cubs have a problem at pitching by saying that out of the 150+ starters the Cubs have 2 that made a qualifying list for an entire season while ignoring how good the entire staff as a whole was for the 2nd half.

The Cubs don't have a starting pitching issue.

With last night's 1 run offensive showing, the Cubs tied the Orioles for the most games in which a team has scored 1 or fewer runs.

They desperately need consistent hitting which they haven't had since they lost an actual lead off hitter like Fowler was when he was with the Cubs.

Also, Chili Davis needs to be fired by the end of the day. He should have been fired before the final pitch of last night's game. There was never a hot streak for this offense all season. They had single game performances where they would pile on which would make you think that they were breaking out. Then the very next series struggle to put up 4 runs for the entire series because they were the most inept situational team at the plate I think I've ever seen. Chili might have been a good hitter during his career but he obviously can't teach a damn thing. He was fired from the Red Sox for the offense regressing to the point of being below league average and that's exactly what happened to the Cubs in his first year. When everyone else is teaching launch angles and you see guys like Matt Carpenter and Daniel Murphy break out after switching to that philosophy, Chili is over here teaching pitch counts, short swings, and contact and you are left with a team that isn't aggressive at the plate while being absolute garbage at everything he's trying to teach.

Other than the hitting the Cubs definitely need an actual closer that isn't a failed injury prone starter turned overused setup man turned Cubs closer.

[Prison Bitch]

Just surprised you're ok with Theo blowing 55M on three vets who are basically Jake Junis. If you're cool with that I won't get in the way. Theodore strategy of developing the hitting get the pitching failed this year. And I don't think it gets better next year.


You're wrong the rotation was fine. It wasn't. It was the worst or near worst in MLB according to Fangraphs. Boy Wonder turned into Boy Blunder this year.

[jd1020]

Your entire argument is based on a stat sheet that is taking in the horrible first half the entire staff had while ignoring the obvious improvement in each and every one of them throughout the season.

Lester had a hiccup for a handful of games after the ASB but overall kept the other team in check.

Quintana had nearly a 2 month stretch later in the year when he had a sub 2 ERA.

Hendricks started with a 5+ ERA and ended with 14 wins and a 3.44 ERA.

A lot of the Cubs ugly rotation numbers came from Tyler Chatwood who isn't in the rotation any more and I suspect the Cubs will extend Cole Hamels to get his number down for next year.

So you keep on looking at stat sheets and I'll keep watching the actual games.

[Marco Polo]

I still fear the Cubs but as a Cardinals fan whose closest friends are all Cubs fans, I'm so happy they got knocked out of the WC.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

I still fear the Cubs but as a Cardinals fan whose closest friends are all Cubs fans, I'm so happy they got knocked out of the WC.

As a Cardinal fan who works in Chicago, I'm just glad they'll all be drinking a nice steaming cup of SHUT THE **** UP.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Your entire argument is based on a stat sheet that is taking in the horrible first half the entire staff had while ignoring the obvious improvement in each and every one of them throughout the season.

Lester had a hiccup for a handful of games after the ASB but overall kept the other team in check.

Quintana had nearly a 2 month stretch later in the year when he had a sub 2 ERA.

Hendricks started with a 5+ ERA and ended with 14 wins and a 3.44 ERA.

A lot of the Cubs ugly rotation numbers came from Tyler Chatwood who isn't in the rotation any more and I suspect the Cubs will extend Cole Hamels to get his number down for next year.

So you keep on looking at stat sheets and I'll keep watching the actual games.

Yeah you keep watching Cubs, I'll keep watching the Royals. It's the same exact rotation so we can both speak about the other. Hamels pitched really well and was the only diff between the rotations. If you're ok being the same SP as the Royals headed into 2019, which you will be w/o Hamels (and maybe even with him if he reverts to recent form), I won't stop you.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Yeah you keep watching Cubs, I'll keep watching the Royals. It's the same exact rotation so we can both speak about the other. Hamels pitched really well and was the only diff between the rotations. If you're ok being the same SP as the Royals headed into 2019, which you will be w/o Hamels (and maybe even with him if he reverts to recent form), I won't stop you.

Your and idiot.

Stick to last place baseball and thinking your team is in any way comparable to 90+ win teams.

[BigRedChief]

From Bernie's article on the Athletic

The Cardinals’ middle-of-the-lineup performance has been among the worst in the majors over the past three seasons.

Three seasons, we remind you, that ended without any postseason baseball in St. Louis.

This should provide a clue as to why:
Using the splits leaderboard at FanGraphs, I looked at the combined numbers from the 3, 4 and 5 lineup spots from 2016 through 2018. Here’s where the Cardinals 3-4-5 spots ranked, as a block, among the 30 MLB teams over the past three seasons:
On-base percentage: 24th (.323)
Slugging percentage: 29th (.424)
OPS: Tied for 29th (.747)
Park-adjusted runs created: 27th
Isolated power: 28th (.169)
Runs batted in: 14th

Pathetic, yes?

Geez, it’s just as bad if we add the No. 2 lineup spot into the mix. Over the last three seasons, the Cardinals’ 2-3-4-5 hitters (combined) rank 24th in OPS and 27th in park-adjusted runs created.

If all of this isn’t a scream for Mr. DeWitt to go all-in on a free-agent bid for Bryce Harper or Manny Machado, I don’t know what else to say.


Well, other than this: The terrain has changed. It’s no longer 2001, or even 2011. The Cardinals are also-rans, three years and counting.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Cubs have Rizzo/Baez/Bryant. The Brewers have Cain/Yelich. If we want to compete against those teams who are not going away, the Cardinals need to change their ways.

The Cardinals have plenty of money. I remember that Baseball Village profits were suppose to help them raise their payroll. 3 million fans every year despite their missing the playoffs the last 3 years.

If Dewitt was willing to put $310 million on the table for Stanton, they need to to put $350-$375 million on the table or whatever it takes. Some team offers $300, you offer $325. They offer $350, you offer $375. You give one of them a 10 year guaranteed contract. No trade clause. Give them an opt-out after 5 years. They leave, you got their best prime years.

No more half measures, pick up a few JAG relievers at deadlines. They need more offense and a MOTOB. No excuses. Get the deal done.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

BRC,

JAGs don't put up 10 WAR over two year stretches. In fact, neither does anyone on the Cardinals.

[Prison Bitch]

fWAR true talent: cards 87.7 wins cubbies 87.6


I've explained at times here that the Cubs were vastly overrated and lucky to win as many as they did, and I also explained their rotation is in freefall and next year you will see the final collapse. The Cub homer here didn't like that be deep down he knows it's. True

There will likely be 4 Central teams winning in the 80s next year, Cubs the slight faces, but a halfway competent off-season and Cards can easily take the division. A bad one and they can be an 80 win fourth place team. The

[jd1020]

You've explained nothing beyond what you think you know from reading a stat sheet.

You have no understanding of what happened during the season from any team in the division and you are so delusional that you think the Royals have a comparable starting rotation to the Cubs.

There is not a single person that is going to buy into anything you are trying to sell because from top to bottom the Cubs have one of the best rosters in all of baseball. The only thing that will derail them right now is a series of injuries.

The Cubs scored the 9th most runs in MLB.
The Cubs had the 10th best rotation in MLB in terms of ERA.
The Cubs had the 3rd best team ERA in MLB.

Ya... they got lucky to win as many as they did.

All while missing significant portions of time from key players in both the lineup and rotation and bullpen. The collapse is near!!!!!!!!