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Old 12-10-2018, 03:28 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The Case for Using Prime Resources on an Elite RB

The game that Mahomes played against the Ravens was majestic. The passes he made towards the end of the game and throughout were magical.

But they're not things you can rely on him making for 17 weeks a season. I don't even care if he's been making them this year on a weekly basis. You shouldn't ask your QB to be superhuman to win games. You should ask him to be good to win games, so that when he becomes superhuman, you can't lose.

Because Mahomes was amazing against the Ravens, but if he struggles we lose. If he struggled against the Raiders, we lose.

In short, since losing Hunt, the Chiefs need more versatility so that they have other ways to beat teams if Mahomes is ever off. The biggest way you can do that is by fixing the defense, but that will require a ton of resources -- all three levels of the defense need a makeover and beg some hard questions. And while this can be done, it's probably not going to get done in one offseason, and the Mahomes Franchise Contract clock is ticking.

The easiest way to do this, however, is with an offense that is 99% built as it is right now. Get an elite RB.

An elite QB that can run the ball 25 times and get 180 yards if teams dare us to run is a solution we should seriously consider. It will require something dramatic, like spending a 1st round pick on a RB, or spending major coin on LeVeon Bell. (Here's what the latter would kind of look like.)

Now, there are multiple complaints I can already envision:

* Running the ball is increasingly irrelevant. I agree with that, but you do need to be able to counter teams if they commit 100% resources to removing your passing game. You can still get victories on the ground.

* Big money free agent RBs never pan out. Big money anything rarely pans out. QBs are paid a ton of money and flame out. Passrushers. DL. Corners. Think less of it as using up cap space, and more an investment into the role they play on the team. Because the role an elite RB that demands attention from opposing defenses only makes Mahomes role easier.

* This player or that player is not good enough. Shrug.

Anyway, I know I'll get roasted for this because you guys roast me for everything, but it's worth consideration as we enter an offseason without Kareem Hunt.
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:56 PM   #16
pugsnotdrugs19 pugsnotdrugs19 is offline
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I still have hope that Kahlil McKenzie will be another LDT type. That guy has some of the traits, most of them actually, that you want in a great guard.
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:45 AM   #17
Chargem Chargem is offline
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But here's the problem - you have a couple approaches with fixing the line, and neither are fun.

Approach 1) The LDT path - draft a guy late, watch him struggle for a year maybe even 2, see him develop and eventually get a nice player for your efforts.

Approach 2) Use day 1 or 2 capital on a guy and STILL face about a 25% chance that he's just not very good. Y'know, the Cameron Erving dilemma.

Approach 3 is just get blind ****ing lucky and stumble into Will Shields in the 3rd round. Don't bank on Approach 3. Shields was the 8th interior lineman taken in that class; it ain't often that the 8th most popular player at a position turns into a HoFer.

So unless you're wiling to use your 1st rounder on Cody Ford (who would WRECK in this system), I just don't see a clean path to making this a lockdown OL. And I certainly don't think I see the value in it given Mahomes ability to make someone like Erving look serviceable and Wylie look downright good.
All good points. Wylie has actually been decent in pass protection so actually the biggest improvement for the Chiefs probably would have been to have LDT back and play him with Wylie.
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:55 AM   #18
kccrow kccrow is offline
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There isn't a back in this draft worthy of a 1st, in my opinion, but there's a ton of outstanding options in the 2nd and 3rd. I'd absolutely spend one of those picks on the position and I do believe the Chiefs will unless they sign Tevin Coleman, whom I think will be their primary free agent target.
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:25 AM   #19
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The game that Mahomes played against the Ravens was majestic. The passes he made towards the end of the game and throughout were magical.

But they're not things you can rely on him making for 17 weeks a season. I don't even care if he's been making them this year on a weekly basis. You shouldn't ask your QB to be superhuman to win games. You should ask him to be good to win games, so that when he becomes superhuman, you can't lose.

Because Mahomes was amazing against the Ravens, but if he struggles we lose. If he struggled against the Raiders, we lose.

In short, since losing Hunt, the Chiefs need more versatility so that they have other ways to beat teams if Mahomes is ever off. The biggest way you can do that is by fixing the defense, but that will require a ton of resources -- all three levels of the defense need a makeover and beg some hard questions. And while this can be done, it's probably not going to get done in one offseason, and the Mahomes Franchise Contract clock is ticking.

The easiest way to do this, however, is with an offense that is 99% built as it is right now. Get an elite RB.

An elite QB that can run the ball 25 times and get 180 yards if teams dare us to run is a solution we should seriously consider. It will require something dramatic, like spending a 1st round pick on a RB, or spending major coin on LeVeon Bell. (Here's what the latter would kind of look like.)

Now, there are multiple complaints I can already envision:

* Running the ball is increasingly irrelevant. I agree with that, but you do need to be able to counter teams if they commit 100% resources to removing your passing game. You can still get victories on the ground.

* Big money free agent RBs never pan out. Big money anything rarely pans out. QBs are paid a ton of money and flame out. Passrushers. DL. Corners. Think less of it as using up cap space, and more an investment into the role they play on the team. Because the role an elite RB that demands attention from opposing defenses only makes Mahomes role easier.

* This player or that player is not good enough. Shrug.

Anyway, I know I'll get roasted for this because you guys roast me for everything, but it's worth consideration as we enter an offseason without Kareem Hunt.

Don't ever do this.

Don't ever do this.
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:55 AM   #20
Demonpenz Demonpenz is offline
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I'll say this - there were at least 2 plays where Hunt doubles up what Ware did including one that might've been housed.

He picked up about 6 yards on a screen pass at one point where a DB managed to get around and bring him down by the foot. He had no business getting taken down there but he just cannot get up to speed and his ability to change directions is limited at best. Hunt would've picked up 20+ with relative ease on that play and Ware just kinda trundled forward and got tripped up.

If I saw a guy that could take us back to a 'Hunt' level from a 'Ware' level, I'd drop a 2nd on that in a heartbeat. Wouldn't think twice. But I wouldn't spend cap money on a FA because that money's gone and it ain't comin' back.

The 2nd would be a guy who slots perfectly into our salary structure even through the beginning of Pat's big deal. It's not an ideal use of the pick but it's a salvageable asset that gets the offense juiced back up at nominal cost.

Because I trust this franchise to find another long-term RB. I'm not so confident that it can use that 2nd to find a damn pass rusher.
ware is slow, but the ravens also swarm and get to the ball fast as **** as well. Perfect storm for an ugly screen.
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:22 PM   #21
RealSNR RealSNR is offline
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The Chiefs since Andy Reid got here have nibbled around the edges of the RB position. We've only drafted 2 guys since he arrived (Knile Davis and Kareem Hunt, both in the 3rd round). The rest of the lot has come from rummaging through the trash or inheriting what was previously on the team, namely Jamaal Charles.

That's how the team has been handling the position since 2013 and I see little reason for it to change. When you sign a big money vet RB or draft a dude in the 1st round, you pigeonhole yourself into giving those guys the ball instead of letting the depth and competition work itself out. And if you don't do that, you wind up with jizzing away your draft picks and cap dollars. Seattle has a successful rushing attack, but imagine what that team could be if they DIDN'T fart away their 1st rounder on Rashaad Penny?

The risk for injury is too great at the RB position to warrant huge investments. We should probably draft a guy, but it doesn't have to be in the 1st or even 2nd round.

The last thing we want to do is send this defense further down the hellhole it's already in by seizing our cap spending because we blew it on Leveon Bell. Or couldn't re-load on a great DL because we spent a 1st rounder on Doofus Magee from Stanford or whatever the hell his name is.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:45 PM   #22
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Andy will make a mid rd RB look solid. I still want to see what Darrell Williams can do.

This teams first rd pick needs to be an ILB, Corner or interior or edge pass rusher.

I think wed be fine having what we have now with a draft pick added to the group.
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:26 AM   #23
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Its really hard to talk about this in generalities because any kind of decision has to be made in reference to a particular player. Its like asking "Is it worth it trade up for a 1st round QB?" Well, it depends if you are talking about RG3 or Mahomes.

If you are asking if we should spend a 1st round pick or big free agency money on a RB, I would think probably not. But if there's a a generational talent there then it could make sense. But I would want a guy who can be a force in the passing game as well, because realistically that's going to be the bulk of our offense.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:13 PM   #24
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Still think we need to spend big resources on RB? Christ.
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:21 PM   #25
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Gonna bump this since we're apparently in the hunt for Bell.
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:34 PM   #26
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Another waste of a thread. It isn't 1995 anymore.
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:23 PM   #27
Chief Northman Chief Northman is offline
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There isn't a back in this draft worthy of a 1st, in my opinion, but there's a ton of outstanding options in the 2nd and 3rd. I'd absolutely spend one of those picks on the position and I do believe the Chiefs will unless they sign Tevin Coleman, whom I think will be their primary free agent target.
Are you saying this because of the McCullough connection?

I cant see it myself. The price point will be too high for Coleman, and you can go by commitee way cheaper through the draft.
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Old 03-02-2019, 02:15 AM   #28
kccrow kccrow is offline
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Are you saying this because of the McCullough connection?

I cant see it myself. The price point will be too high for Coleman, and you can go by commitee way cheaper through the draft.
Schematic fit/style more than McCullough. Depends on his price, obviously, but I think they'll have a visit.
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