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Old 10-19-2017, 10:12 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Fire Bob Sutton

That is all.
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:42 PM   #1561
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Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
Knew we should have got Pettine when we had the chance in the off-season.
Look at what he's turned Caper's dogshit defense into in Greenbay.



To put that into perspective they were ranked 22 last year in total yards allowed, under the same category above.

Scheme DOES matter. Even with scrubs. I'm tired of defending Sutton. Dude had Shaw cover Gronk one on one with no help during the most crucial part of the game. Who does that?
Yeah, but unlike the category above all teams finish having played the same number of games. Packers have only played 5 games and most other teams have played 6.

313 yards per game and 22 points per is pretty good, but it's a bit misleading to highlight total defense when yards per game and points per game are what matter right now.

Played Alex. Played Buffalo. Detroit just laid 500 yards and 31 points on them. Don't expect that position to stay the same. It absolutely won't. Though they have another cupcake offense up tonight with the Beathard led 49ers.
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:51 PM   #1562
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OK maybe i should put it a little different.

Reid has given him a long rope, but after this week there is no way he doesnt realize that rope has come to an end.

As for praising him, its lip service, he knows what hes been seeing but has tried and tried to give the guy a chance.

or..

I could be dead wrong and Andy actually believes he some kind of genius cursed with a shitty roster. I could see it through last season, but now through week 6 on pace to be worst D of all time its time for his boy to go.
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:56 PM   #1563
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Sutton doesn't trust any LBer in coverage. Devoted all his resources and help in stopping James White and Edelman from killing them because he knew not 1 LBer that was active could cover any of them. That left the corners mostly 1 on 1 with Gordon, Gronk, Hogan. When he doubled Gronk he knew it was going right to White or Edelman. (or in the extreme case, Tom Brady scrambling) The Pats had him check mated.

This is why Berry and/or Houston are so important to Sutton. If you ever got frustrated with why Sutton drops Houston in coverage so much, this is a great example of it. Berry 1 on 1 basically can lock a guy down. Sutton struggles to win without both of these guys because there is nothing left for him talent wise to compensate. I don't like this scheme cause it relies so much on the high level talent for it to work. Just like it did on the Jets (Prime Revis, David Harris). If you just have average players and not an athlete that can lock down someone it's completely useless as all the other parts break down.

The cupboard is bare on defense. They need the next Berry or Houston that can do it all and they have not come close to hitting on that talent yet. They have tried many times, with all the secondary and linebackers they have drafted, and pretty much everyone of them has busted, or in Peters outlier case, forced their hand.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:20 PM   #1564
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Originally Posted by hometeam View Post
OK maybe i should put it a little different.

Reid has given him a long rope, but after this week there is no way he doesnt realize that rope has come to an end.

As for praising him, its lip service, he knows what hes been seeing but has tried and tried to give the guy a chance.

or..

I could be dead wrong and Andy actually believes he some kind of genius cursed with a shitty roster. I could see it through last season, but now through week 6 on pace to be worst D of all time its time for his boy to go.
The guy owns some of the biggest playoff collapses in NFL history and still hasn't been let go.

Andy is a loyal mother****er. Thanks to Dorsey and Veach, we have Mahomes.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:27 PM   #1565
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Originally Posted by mcaj22 View Post
Sutton doesn't trust any LBer in coverage. Devoted all his resources and help in stopping James White and Edelman from killing them because he knew not 1 LBer that was active could cover any of them. That left the corners mostly 1 on 1 with Gordon, Gronk, Hogan. When he doubled Gronk he knew it was going right to White or Edelman. (or in the extreme case, Tom Brady scrambling) The Pats had him check mated.

This is why Berry and/or Houston are so important to Sutton. If you ever got frustrated with why Sutton drops Houston in coverage so much, this is a great example of it. Berry 1 on 1 basically can lock a guy down. Sutton struggles to win without both of these guys because there is nothing left for him talent wise to compensate. I don't like this scheme cause it relies so much on the high level talent for it to work. Just like it did on the Jets (Prime Revis, David Harris). If you just have average players and not an athlete that can lock down someone it's completely useless as all the other parts break down.

The cupboard is bare on defense. They need the next Berry or Houston that can do it all and they have not come close to hitting on that talent yet. They have tried many times, with all the secondary and linebackers they have drafted, and pretty much everyone of them has busted, or in Peters outlier case, forced their hand.


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Old 10-15-2018, 06:31 PM   #1566
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Originally Posted by Molitoth View Post
The guy owns some of the biggest playoff collapses in NFL history and still hasn't been let go.

Andy is a loyal mother****er. Thanks to Dorsey and Veach, we have Mahomes.
The offense got SHUT OUT against the Titans in the 2nd half and netted 58 yards. I put that one more on Alice than Sutton.

Blaming that entirely on the D or Sutton is reeruned. I"ll give you the Colts fiasco even with the injuries. 35 points in a half is ridiculous.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:32 PM   #1567
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
Knew we should have got Pettine when we had the chance in the off-season.
Look at what he's turned Caper's dogshit defense into in Greenbay.



To put that into perspective they were ranked 22 last year in total yards allowed, under the same category above.

Scheme DOES matter. Even with scrubs. I'm tired of defending Sutton. Dude had Shaw cover Gronk one on one with no help during the most crucial part of the game. Who does that?
Mike Pettine's history as a defensive coordinator looks just like Sutton's here. He's great with somebody else's personnel and over 3 or 4 years, he runs them into the ground. He's left every job he's ever had with the defense being 20 spots or more worse than when he started.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:54 PM   #1568
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Really don’t want to get a new DC that runs a 4-3. If we got someone new, I’d want a 3-4 coach who runs something familiar.

We don’t have time to waste a year going through a transition period on defense again and it would take a lot more work than people realize.

Not looking like it will happen, but God would I love Todd Bowles running this defense. I love the players he’s helped draft, the system he runs and development he has done with his players.

He was with Andy in Philly so you’d think Andy would welcome him here with open arms.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:02 PM   #1569
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Ravens fired Cam Cameron I like week 12 and guess what.... They went on to win the superbowl that same year!
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:03 PM   #1570
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I still don't see our defense's struggles as a scheme failure I see it more as a talent failure. The players on our defense are mostly average to below average players. The only good players we had playing on D last night were Dee Ford and Chris Jones. Everyone else sucked. You really can't scheme around that. The best defenses have good players literally in almost every position along with a few Pro Bowlers. How many Pro Bowlers we have on our defense? If the season ended today probably 0. Maybe Dee Ford would make it.

So it doesn't matter what scheme or DC we have when you can't tackle, you can't cover, the dlineman are getting pushed back 2-3 yds every run play and our best defensive players can't stay healthy. Not to mention because we are so bad at stopping the run piratically every time the Pats did a play action pass our guys bit leaving a WR or Gronk wide open.

Now you can make the claim that the defense may never be good because of our lack of talent but it shouldn't be this bad. And that's up for debate but don't think that a new DC is going to come in here and magically make our defense good or even average if our defensive players continue to get their asses kicked at the defensive line on running plays while the rest of the D can't make a tackle. A large part of tackling is about effort and it's not there right now. Sutton definitely needs to talk to our guys and tell them that effort needs to be picked up big time. I'll never forget how the Chiefs Ds in the 90s would swarm to the ball carrier the minute he touched the ball.

What's killing us is with defense even though it's a pass happy league you still have to be able to stop the run. If you can't do that it's going to make everything else harder. And it all starts upfront when it comes to stopping the run and our dline were pushed back a ridiculous amount against the Patriots and Broncos. Not to mention our ILBs are slow and can't tackle well consistently.

We are allowing 5.4 ypc... That means basically every two carries offenses are getting a first down against us when they run. Luckily we have built some early leads on teams so they haven't been able to run on us as much as they'd probably like to. But expect teams to run on us more and more if they get the chance until we prove we can stop it.

So I'm not going to say Sutton needs to go when our defensive players are getting destroyed in their individual battles.. When he has the talent the D has been good.

And we're 5-1 not 1-5... The D has been horrible but they've still done enough to win 5 out of 6 games. Pats have lit up some very good defenses in the past. What happened last night was unfortunate but it's not like our D got destroyed by some scrub offense.

There's still hope for the D to improve. We've been missing our best defensive player all season and this game we were missing arguably our 2nd best defensive player. Those guys will both be back and with our offense all our defense has to do is not be horrible and we can beat anybody so that's not an unrealistic expectation.

See how they do against the Bengals be another good test.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:07 PM   #1571
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It's crazy on like a Hue Jackson and Jason Garret proportion on him still being the DC. It makes no sense. Andy blames every problem on the players we have but that's not the only thing wrong. Defense has stunk for over be year and is now at rock bottom.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:04 PM   #1572
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:06 PM   #1573
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The only thing firing Sutton does at this jobs. I think Sutton has long overstayed his welcome, but the complacent attitude this defense has is ridiculous. Sutton gets part of the blame for thatpoint is possibly motivate these sad sacks of shit to play to not lose their , but at the end of the day these bitches are paid to perform, and they are not doing their jobs.
Seems to me we can all agree that the culture is pure shit regardless of scheme or personnel, so that's a start.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:08 PM   #1574
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Ravens fired Cam Cameron I like week 12 and guess what.... They went on to win the superbowl that same year!
Offense and defense are completely different but I'm sure you know that. The Ravens didn't just change coordinators, they changed schemes. It doesn't really how badly we want it to happen, that's not happening in KC.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:10 PM   #1575
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Seems to me we can all agree that the culture is pure shit regardless of scheme or personnel, so that's a start.
Who is responsible for that culture though?

You can blame it on Bob all you want but who is the guy that gave Bob complete control and doesn't even pay attention when the defense is on the field?

I have zero faith that Andy is going to replace Bob with somebody that's actually good. At best, they're going to get somebody just like Sutton.
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