Chiefs Attacking kneeldowns: good football or bad sportsmanship?

**Rain Man** · 01:23 PM

I was getting annoyed on the Chiefs' last possession, the one where we had the ball on our own five with a minute left and were just doing kneeldowns.

On every kneeldown, the Patriots would create a big pileup by diving into our linemen.

It annoyed me because it's not going to work 999 times out of 1000. The general protocol of football is that if a team is kneeling down you let them do it because the game is essentially over. It's tradition, and it's generally frowned upon to do otherwise. (See Tom Nalen diving into Igor Olshansky's knees as an example.)

The Patriots were crashing hard into our linemen on every one of those kneeldowns even though Patrick was pulling off some of the greatest kneeldowns I've ever seen. Did you notice that? He was down in a split second and moving back. He may be the most talented kneeldown quarterback I've ever seen.

Having said all of that, the game ain't over until the final gun goes off, or Brady's bedtime, whichever comes first. If diving into the line works 1 time out of 1000, that's one extra game you're going to win. So it's good practice to do it from a pure win-loss perspective.

It makes me think that there should be a rule change to automatically take the clock down at the end of the game and the defending team can stop it by taking time outs, since kneeldowns are for the most part boring from a game perspective. Why should the league risk the knees of a Patriots player flying into them on a play that's essentially meaningless.

But back to the point. Was it good football that that Patriots were attacking our kneeldowns or bad sportsmanship?

Poll coming if I can keep Donta Hightower from diving into it.

Eleazar · 12-09-2019, 01:19 PM

Bad sportsmanship. Can injure someone and never works. Wasn't even a thing until that loser Schiano brought it to the NFL, was it?

eDave · 12-09-2019, 01:21 PM

It's a dick move.

**Buehler445** · 12-09-2019, 01:21 PM

I wasn’t thrilled with it. I understand it but I wish they wouldn’t have done it. There is far higher probability of injury than a fumble. But I get it.

I do wonder what the narrative would have been if the roles were reversed. Would there be great whaling and gnashing of teeth at the slight chance that Brady would sustain an injury? I’m guessing at least one assface would roll that out there.

**ptlyon** · 12-09-2019, 01:21 PM

RM - you're questioning why the Pats would try to injure their opponent?

You're smarter than this!

**DaFace** · 12-09-2019, 01:22 PM

Didn't someone run a fake out of a kneel-down position not too long ago? It was before halftime rather than just ending the game, but still.

In general, I'm fine with teams playing every down like it's a real play.

Beef Supreme · 12-09-2019, 01:22 PM

It's bad sportsmanship, and nobody is surprised that the Patriots are bad sports.

Halfcan · 12-09-2019, 01:23 PM

Mahomes has had a lot of practice in the Victory formation.

Patriots took cheap shots the entire game. I hope they don't win another game the rest of the year.

**Shaid** · 12-09-2019, 01:23 PM

I tend to agree but occasionally weird crap happens on a snap and they were positioned at a great spot to take advantage if they got lucky. Just gotta deal with it.

eDave · 12-09-2019, 01:24 PM

Your 6th and final option is an interesting take.

saphojunkie · 12-09-2019, 01:24 PM

Sorry guys but no.

It was smart. We were backed up to the end zone. It was a one score game. The chiefs have won on a botched kneel down (thanks, Rivers).

There is nothing wrong with playing until zeroes on the clock.

It’s bad sportsmanship when it’s mid field and you're down by 10. Pats did nothing wrong.

**DaFace** · 12-09-2019, 01:26 PM

If we're just evaluating it based on the probability of injury, consider other "long odds" situations. How about a team down by 28+ in the 4th quarter? That's like a 99% chance of a loss, so should they just take a knee the entire quarter and concede the game? That would avoid injuries for both teams.

I don't see how that's any different than playing through a kneel down.

**HayWire** · 12-09-2019, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I wasn’t thrilled with it. I understand it but I wish they wouldn’t have done it. There is far higher probability of injury than a fumble. But I get it.

I do wonder what the narrative would have been if the roles were reversed. Would there be great whaling and gnashing of teeth at the slight chance that Brady would sustain an injury? I’m guessing at least one assface would roll that out there.

This. A botched snap and they have the ball on the 5. Would have bothered me more if it was the other end of the field. I think it's more "how" they do I rather than if. Trying to blow them off the line like a normal play, fine. Going after cheap shots and knees, not cool

O.city · 12-09-2019, 01:32 PM

IMO, just do away with the kneel downs. If you are at a point where 3 kneels ends the game or whatever, just do like they've done with the extra point or the intentional walk in baseball.

Just allow coaches to say "we're kneeling to end the game, they don't have any time outs and we can salt it away" run the clock and end the game. There is a fumble on a snap what, every 8 years on a kneel?

It's dumb.

**TinyEvel** · 12-09-2019, 01:38 PM

I don't like it but I understand 100% why someone (especially Belichick) would do it in that situation they were in.

A one-score game on our own 5 years line, any mistake and they could get the ball and score. I would have done it.

But in a two possession game not important to the season outcome or seeding, No. stupid.

View Poll Results: Attacking kneeldowns in the victory formation. What's your opinion?
Football is a 60-minute game. If it gives you a chance to win, you obviously do it.	18	15.65%
You should do it to try to win, but the injury risk may outweigh the reward.	6	5.22%
I'm neutral. I'm usually in the bathroom when the kneeldowns occur anyway.	2	1.74%
I'll deal with it if someone does it, because the game's not over. But it's kind of stupid.	20	17.39%
It's poor sportsmanship. Class up and acknowledge that you've lost.	64	55.65%
Kneeldowns shouldn't happen anyway. Keep attacking because scoring is the eighth or ninth tiebreaker for the playoffs.	5	4.35%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

12-09-2019, 01:18 PM
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3348491 VARSITY	Attacking kneeldowns: good football or bad sportsmanship? I was getting annoyed on the Chiefs' last possession, the one where we had the ball on our own five with a minute left and were just doing kneeldowns. On every kneeldown, the Patriots would create a big pileup by diving into our linemen. It annoyed me because it's not going to work 999 times out of 1000. The general protocol of football is that if a team is kneeling down you let them do it because the game is essentially over. It's tradition, and it's generally frowned upon to do otherwise. (See Tom Nalen diving into Igor Olshansky's knees as an example.) The Patriots were crashing hard into our linemen on every one of those kneeldowns even though Patrick was pulling off some of the greatest kneeldowns I've ever seen. Did you notice that? He was down in a split second and moving back. He may be the most talented kneeldown quarterback I've ever seen. Having said all of that, the game ain't over until the final gun goes off, or Brady's bedtime, whichever comes first. If diving into the line works 1 time out of 1000, that's one extra game you're going to win. So it's good practice to do it from a pure win-loss perspective. It makes me think that there should be a rule change to automatically take the clock down at the end of the game and the defending team can stop it by taking time outs, since kneeldowns are for the most part boring from a game perspective. Why should the league risk the knees of a Patriots player flying into them on a play that's essentially meaningless. But back to the point. Was it good football that that Patriots were attacking our kneeldowns or bad sportsmanship? Poll coming if I can keep Donta Hightower from diving into it. Last edited by Rain Man; 12-09-2019 at 01:23 PM..
Posts: 141,251

12-09-2019, 01:19 PM	#2
Eleazar Beyond the Rapids Join Date: May 2003 Location: Langley, VA Casino cash: $-370000	Bad sportsmanship. Can injure someone and never works. Wasn't even a thing until that loser Schiano brought it to the NFL, was it?
Posts: 80,659

12-09-2019, 01:21 PM	#3
eDave Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Casino cash: $9998560	It's a dick move.
Posts: 53,803

12-09-2019, 01:21 PM	#4
Buehler445 Supporter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Scott City KS Casino cash: $2344734	I wasn’t thrilled with it. I understand it but I wish they wouldn’t have done it. There is far higher probability of injury than a fumble. But I get it. I do wonder what the narrative would have been if the roles were reversed. Would there be great whaling and gnashing of teeth at the slight chance that Brady would sustain an injury? I’m guessing at least one assface would roll that out there.
Posts: 56,766

12-09-2019, 01:21 PM	#5
ptlyon Bono & Grbac wasn't enough Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Sioux City, IA Casino cash: $13133829	RM - you're questioning why the Pats would try to injure their opponent? You're smarter than this! __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Advertise here: $19.99 a month
Posts: 33,524

12-09-2019, 01:22 PM	#6
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $2056899	Didn't someone run a fake out of a kneel-down position not too long ago? It was before halftime rather than just ending the game, but still. In general, I'm fine with teams playing every down like it's a real play.
Posts: 51,749

12-09-2019, 01:22 PM	#7
Beef Supreme MVP Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $10019560	It's bad sportsmanship, and nobody is surprised that the Patriots are bad sports.
Posts: 11,000	1 0

12-09-2019, 01:23 PM	#8
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	Mahomes has had a lot of practice in the Victory formation. Patriots took cheap shots the entire game. I hope they don't win another game the rest of the year.
Posts: 43,200

12-09-2019, 01:23 PM	#9
Shaid Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Casino cash: $3125783	I tend to agree but occasionally weird crap happens on a snap and they were positioned at a great spot to take advantage if they got lucky. Just gotta deal with it. __________________
Posts: 5,689

12-09-2019, 01:24 PM	#10
eDave Banned Join Date: Jan 2013 Casino cash: $9998560	Your 6th and final option is an interesting take.
Posts: 53,803

12-09-2019, 01:24 PM	#11
saphojunkie MVP Join Date: Aug 2011 Casino cash: $4776250	Sorry guys but no. It was smart. We were backed up to the end zone. It was a one score game. The chiefs have won on a botched kneel down (thanks, Rivers). There is nothing wrong with playing until zeroes on the clock. It’s bad sportsmanship when it’s mid field and you're down by 10. Pats did nothing wrong.
Posts: 12,517

12-09-2019, 01:26 PM	#12
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $2056899	If we're just evaluating it based on the probability of injury, consider other "long odds" situations. How about a team down by 28+ in the 4th quarter? That's like a 99% chance of a loss, so should they just take a knee the entire quarter and concede the game? That would avoid injuries for both teams. I don't see how that's any different than playing through a kneel down.
Posts: 51,749

12-09-2019, 01:32 PM	#14
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2774064	IMO, just do away with the kneel downs. If you are at a point where 3 kneels ends the game or whatever, just do like they've done with the extra point or the intentional walk in baseball. Just allow coaches to say "we're kneeling to end the game, they don't have any time outs and we can salt it away" run the clock and end the game. There is a fumble on a snap what, every 8 years on a kneel? It's dumb.
Posts: 81,205	0 1

12-09-2019, 01:38 PM	#15
TinyEvel Just a li'l Evel Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bald. Goatee. Jorts. Casino cash: $5437131	I don't like it but I understand 100% why someone (especially Belichick) would do it in that situation they were in. A one-score game on our own 5 years line, any mistake and they could get the ball and score. I would have done it. But in a two possession game not important to the season outcome or seeding, No. stupid.
Posts: 11,809