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Old 02-11-2019, 11:52 AM  
NinerDoug NinerDoug is offline
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Insect Extinction

Everyone has heard of this issue with regard to bees. This is the first time I have heard of it with regard to insects in general.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0f9e1b17f097d

Insects Are Dying En Masse, Risking ‘Catastrophic’ Collapse Of Earth’s Ecosystems

The insect apocalypse is indeed upon us, according to the first global scientific review of insect population decline.


There have been warning signs for years about plummeting insect populations worldwide, but the extent of the potentially “catastrophic” crisis had not been well-understood — until now.

The first global scientific review of insect population decline was published this week in the journal Biological Conservation and the findings are “shocking,” its authors said.

More than 40 percent of insect species are dwindling globally and a third of species are endangered, concluded the peer-reviewed study, which analyzed 73 historical reports on insect population declines.

Chillingly, the total mass of insects is falling by 2.5 percent annually, the review’s authors said. If the decline continues at this rate, insects could be wiped off the face of the Earth within a century.

“It is very rapid. In 10 years you will have a quarter less, in 50 years only half left and in 100 years you will have none,” study co-author Francisco Sánchez-Bayo, an environmental biologist at the University of Sydney, Australia, told The Guardian.

“If insect species losses cannot be halted, this will have catastrophic consequences for both the planet’s ecosystems and for the survival of mankind,” Sánchez-Bayo added.

Scientists have warned that a human-caused sixth mass extinction is now underway on Earth. Vertebrate species, both on land and under the sea, are threatened at a global scale because of human activities.

But according to the new review, the proportion of insects in decline is currently twice as high as that of vertebrates and the insect extinction rate is eight times faster than that of mammals, birds and reptiles.

Insects play a profoundly important role in Earth’s ecosystems. They are a food source for many animals, are critical pollinators and recycle nutrients back into the soil.

In a November New York Times report about a possible “insect apocalypse,” scientists were asked to imagine a world with no insects.

They found “words like chaos, collapse, Armageddon,” the Times wrote. ”[One entomologist] describes a flowerless world with silent forests, a world of dung and old leaves and rotting carcasses accumulating in cities and roadsides, a world of ‘collapse or decay and erosion and loss that would spread through ecosystems.’”

According to the new scientific review, habitat loss because of intensive agriculture is the top driver of insect population declines. The heavy use of pesticides, climate change and invasive species were also pinpointed as significant causes.

“Unless we change our ways of producing food, insects as a whole will go down the path of extinction in a few decades,” the review’s co-authors wrote. “The repercussions this will have for the planet’s ecosystems are catastrophic to say the least.”
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:49 AM   #46
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What do you raise? It's a big change, but some farmer's are making the successful transition to organic. And actually making more money.
It's a 6-7 year rotation. Currently in alfalfa for an organic dairy. In 2021 or 2022 it will go to corn, then wheat, then beans, then back to alfalfa. It's not really a big change. You get certified after taking it in the ass for 3 years and basically go at it like it's 1950. You're still killing weeds and planting seeds, only you're burning a hell of a lot more fuel and time to do it. I only do it to prove I can and to give the neighbors something to talk about. It's damn sure not a better return on my time compared to the conventional side unless I hit that one special year in the market when the organic corn supply tanks. Yields can be drastically reduced on any given year due to system and environmental limitations and even finding qualified litter or manure to use as fertilizer can be difficult. Even getting an operating note can be impossible for many as the system doesn't fit modern banking and insurance policies. Most organic guys I know are straight up raping the ground of nutrients while causing unsightly amounts of erosion and will move back to conventional farming and fertilizer when the tap shuts off or they completely lose to the weed seed bank.

If my buyer had a house with electricity, drove a car with insurance, didn't have 4 minor sons working his dairy for free, and/or lived like a normal modern human being he'd have been belly up months ago. His cost of living is so cheap people would think they live in a cave. No sane producer wants to live like that. His buyer/processor tells him on a regular basis that their market could end at any time. Normal people simply can not afford to pay for milk and cheese produced in a system with such inflated costs when the option right next to it is much cheaper and often used as a loss leader. It's not rocket science.

Not to mention the system if full of fraud, weirdos, and generally some of the most untrustworthy people on the planet. The recent 100+ million dollar fraud case that spanned from California to nearly the east cost originated very near me. The powers that be at .gov couldn't even catch up to the guy for damn near a decade despite everyone within a 200 mile radius knowing the guy was running a huge scheme. If his partners in another state hadn't rolled on him for a plea, it'd still be ongoing. The apparent speed at which the oversight and regulatory system operates is quite comparable to the 1950s style of production.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:51 AM   #47
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If you've followed what's been happening with Glyphosate, you know that some very shady shit's been going on from the opposition side of things. We're talking the anti-Alar campaign levels of shady shit. It's a terrible example to bring up.
I've followed it quite closely. It is the world's most widely used herbicide. So it's no surprise that Monsanto has made such a concerted effort to discredit the facts. But you certainly have the right to disagree and buy into their propaganda. There are a lot of orgs and websites (they contribute to) that would have you believe that it is safe. I just can't agree with them. For me, the "probably carcinogenic" designation from the IARC is enough to avoid the chemical altogether. The IARC gains no financial benefit from their findings. In fact, their designation has probably cost them a tidy sum as they've had to defend the backlash created by Monsanto.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:01 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by T-post Tom View Post
I've followed it quite closely. It is the world's most widely used herbicide. So it's no surprise that Monsanto has made such a concerted effort to discredit the facts. But you certainly have the right to disagree and buy into their propaganda. There are a lot of orgs and websites (they contribute to) that would have you believe that it is safe. I just can't agree with them. For me, the "probably carcinogenic" designation from the IARC is enough to avoid the chemical altogether. The IARC gains no financial benefit from their findings. In fact, their designation has probably cost them a tidy sum as they've had to defend the backlash created by Monsanto.
I don't buy either side's propaganda. On the other hand, you've clearly bought into the propaganda of the trial lawyers and abolitionists. So look to your own mirror on this.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:15 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by ghak99 View Post
It's a 6-7 year rotation. Currently in alfalfa for an organic dairy. In 2021 or 2022 it will go to corn, then wheat, then beans, then back to alfalfa. It's not really a big change. You get certified after taking it in the ass for 3 years and basically go at it like it's 1950. You're still killing weeds and planting seeds, only you're burning a hell of a lot more fuel and time to do it. I only do it to prove I can and to give the neighbors something to talk about. It's damn sure not a better return on my time compared to the conventional side unless I hit that one special year in the market when the organic corn supply tanks. Yields can be drastically reduced on any given year due to system and environmental limitations and even finding qualified litter or manure to use as fertilizer can be difficult. Even getting an operating note can be impossible for many as the system doesn't fit modern banking and insurance policies. Most organic guys I know are straight up raping the ground of nutrients while causing unsightly amounts of erosion and will move back to conventional farming and fertilizer when the tap shuts off or they completely lose to the weed seed bank.

If my buyer had a house with electricity, drove a car with insurance, didn't have 4 minor sons working his dairy for free, and/or lived like a normal modern human being he'd have been belly up months ago. His cost of living is so cheap people would think they live in a cave. No sane producer wants to live like that. His buyer/processor tells him on a regular basis that their market could end at any time. Normal people simply can not afford to pay for milk and cheese produced in a system with such inflated costs when the option right next to it is much cheaper and often used as a loss leader. It's not rocket science.

Not to mention the system if full of fraud, weirdos, and generally some of the most untrustworthy people on the planet. The recent 100+ million dollar fraud case that spanned from California to nearly the east cost originated very near me. The powers that be at .gov couldn't even catch up to the guy for damn near a decade despite everyone within a 200 mile radius knowing the guy was running a huge scheme. If his partners in another state hadn't rolled on him for a plea, it'd still be ongoing. The apparent speed at which the oversight and regulatory system operates is quite comparable to the 1950s style of production.
Was that the guy in Chillicothe? You obviously have your finger on the pulse. And you have more experience and knowledge on the subject than I do. But I've read and heard enough to believe that the rising demand for organic can fuel some changes. That and advances in technology, like new bioinsecticides and bioherbicides. I've read somewhere that organic corn yields by some were around 85% of non-organic. Soybeans close to that. Doesn't sound too bad, if true.

With some smart incentives by government to push it along, it seems reasonable to expect organic farming to expand well beyond where it's currently at. I'd guess that most farmers and agricultural workers would be down for fewer toxic chemicals. Sadly, they're the ones that suffer the most because of exposure to those chemicals, according to all the medical studies.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:19 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
I don't buy either side's propaganda. On the other hand, you've clearly bought into the propaganda of the trial lawyers and abolitionists. So look to your own mirror on this.
The IARC is clearly the source that I referenced. They are neither abolitionists nor trial lawyers. So you won't prop your position up with that.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:51 AM   #51
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Yes, but the reach of the fraud spread from California to somewhere near the east coast.

His current employment is both amusing and hopefully humbling.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:02 AM   #52
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Yes, but the reach of the fraud spread from California to somewhere near the east coast.

His current employment is both amusing and hopefully humbling.
Found him: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randyconstant

That's really sad for the legit organic farmers. One bad apple ear of corn....
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:15 AM   #53
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some of the dumbest shit I’ve read ever .
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:10 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by T-post Tom View Post
Glyphosate, atrazine, 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid, extrazine, chlorpyrifos, etc. Just look at the label of any insecticide, herbicide or fungicide. Look at all the banned or severely restricted agricultural chemicals of the last 50 years. There's a good chance that some of today's approved chemicals will be banned upon further research. We have a lot of chemical companies making a lot of money of these chemicals. Having less toxic chemicals in the environment can't be bad, right? Can't imagine anyone would argue against alternatives to toxic chemicals. Alternatives that work of course. That's all I'm advocating. Unless you work for or own stock in a chemical company that makes toxic chemicals, I can't imagine why you would disapprove. Even then, those companies can find alternatives if they're motivated to do so.
You said chemicals were/are poured on our food. That is simply wrong.

Glyphosate, atrazine, 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid, extrazine, chlorpyrifos.....Gly may be the most researched herbicide ever and is incredibly safe in spite of the hoopla from the anti Monsanto crowd. Atrazine use is at an all time low and rate per acre has been cut by 1/2, @,4D has been around since the 50's and went through a complete re registrtration about 10 years ago to re prove safety, Chlopyrifos use is dwindling to a dribble and is not used in homes or food industry at all.

If you examine the new chemistries approved in the last 15 years, you will find use rates that are far below old chemistries, safety that is nothing short of amazing, residuals that are near levels we cannot measure....your desire for less toxic and less total pounds is here now.

Chem companies are doing precisely what you state as your desire.

Our food is not contaminated
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:10 AM   #55
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The organic industry uses plenty of pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides. Some of it has proven much worse than any synthetic product. You don't grow food without some type.
Link, name specific ones they use and provide statistics please?
That's a heap of a sweeping brush you got there.

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Everything is chemicals.
So.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:51 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
You said chemicals were/are poured on our food. That is simply wrong.

Glyphosate, atrazine, 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid, extrazine, chlorpyrifos.....Gly may be the most researched herbicide ever and is incredibly safe in spite of the hoopla from the anti Monsanto crowd. Atrazine use is at an all time low and rate per acre has been cut by 1/2, @,4D has been around since the 50's and went through a complete re registrtration about 10 years ago to re prove safety, Chlopyrifos use is dwindling to a dribble and is not used in homes or food industry at all.

If you examine the new chemistries approved in the last 15 years, you will find use rates that are far below old chemistries, safety that is nothing short of amazing, residuals that are near levels we cannot measure....your desire for less toxic and less total pounds is here now.

Chem companies are doing precisely what you state as your desire.

Our food is not contaminated
Hey, if it helps you sleep at night, keep believing. Yes, there have been improvements… but there are still too many dangerous chemicals being used. Gly is not safe & neither are many of the other chemicals in agriculture. But I will never convince you. So instead, I'll gladly toast to your good health...with my organic grape juice. Live long and prosper.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:55 PM   #57
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Found him: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randyconstant

That's really sad for the legit organic farmers. One bad apple ear of corn....
Quixotic's doors were slammed months ago.
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Old Yesterday, 04:14 PM   #58
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In Roundup Case, the Science Will Go on Trial First


In a San Francisco courtroom this month, a jury will be asked to weigh a complicated question: Did Roundup weedkiller cause a man’s cancer?

The jurors will assess the credibility of competing studies that delve into cell mutations, cancer epidemiology and genotoxicity. They’ll hear evidence purporting to show why California resident Edwin Hardeman’s exposure to Roundup was dangerous, and other analyses arguing it was perfectly safe.

But unlike in a prior trial brought against the herbicide’s maker, Bayer AG, the jurors won’t simultaneously hear allegations that the company hid dangers about its product from the public. Instead, they’ll take part in an unusual split trial focused first on the science, and then, only if they find the plaintiff’s claims valid, on the question of negligence.

A federal judge approved a request by the company for this slimmed-down trial, over the objection of the plaintiff’s lawyers, to let the jury evaluate the alleged dangers of Roundup without what he called the significant distraction of attacks on the company’s behavior...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-roun...st-11550246311
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Old Today, 04:05 PM   #59
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Anti Monsanto people are all a bunch of nutters who have no clue whatsoever
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Old Today, 04:30 PM   #60
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