Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by eDave

They emphasized the copy code scene a bit too much for my tastes. I'd have liked that foreshadowing to be a bit more subtle.

HHM can't use copy machines for personal use?

/not a lawyer.

It was a Westlaw download that cost, not the printing.

Westlaw is an online court opinion publication service like Lexus/Nexus, that provides certified accurate, formatted court written opinions, and law review articles, and breaks them down by subject, jurisdiction, holding, subsequent citations, etc. Back then, searching was usually free, but downloading for insertion into briefs or printing costs by jurisdiction and length. Nowadays most firms have a blanket monthly license tailored to their needs [ie, state courts where they do business, federal courts, major law reviews, and periodicals in their practice area], but usually still bill out to clients on the assumption/client agreement that longer cases take longer to review.

[RobBlake]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

It was a Westlaw download that cost, not the printing.

Westlaw is an online court opinion publication service like Lexus/Nexus, that provides certified accurate, formatted court written opinions, and law review articles, and breaks them down by subject, jurisdiction, holding, subsequent citations, etc. Back then, searching was usually free, but downloading for insertion into briefs or printing costs by jurisdiction and length. Nowadays most firms have a blanket monthly license tailored to their needs [ie, state courts where they do business, federal courts, major law reviews, and periodicals in their practice area], but usually still bill out to clients on the assumption/client agreement that longer cases take longer to review.

yup.. hated using lexus in para school when i went

[frankotank]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Adversarial process, hoss - everyone's entitled to representation. Without it, the whole system crashes.

It's funny, but the legal system relies on the guiltiest of the guilty getting representation as well, otherwise the system will just turn into a gulag where the prosecutors become the judge.

There's a major MAJOR leap from 'they'll defend and crooked old folks home' to 'they'll !@#$ing kill people'.

Perhaps it's because I don't have the BB background, but it sure seems like that's a step removed from the fairly grounded reality they've created in BCS to this point.

yes it's far fetched. but BB world is nutty. gonna be a good ride. be pretty funny if my guess is right though.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I think it's far more likely that Chuck ends up institutionalized than dead. The ending of the episode this week further drove home the psychosomatic nature of his illness, and since he knows he was fine before Jimmy said something to him, it's likely that it will further reinforce the inconsistency of his illness to himself, lumping self-doubt on top of psychosis.

Also, using his printing code will likely be used as an excuse from cashing Chuck out, as HHM can say that he was capable of working, as evidenced by the code usage. Thus their pittance of a pay-off will be seen as justifiable because Chuck "could" work, but chose not to.

So, Chuck ends up 1) institutionalized and 2) without any remuneration from the firm he built.

On top of that, Jimmy will lose the right to use his name, as foreshadowed earlier this season, and based on what he's seen, there's not really much of a reason not to become a criminal lawyer, because where does being upstanding get you?

Spoiler that shit!

[penguinz]

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

Spoiler that shit!

Spoiler what? It is a theory on what he thinks will happen.

It does not spoil anything at all.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

It was a Westlaw download that cost, not the printing.

Westlaw is an online court opinion publication service like Lexus/Nexus, that provides certified accurate, formatted court written opinions, and law review articles, and breaks them down by subject, jurisdiction, holding, subsequent citations, etc. Back then, searching was usually free, but downloading for insertion into briefs or printing costs by jurisdiction and length. Nowadays most firms have a blanket monthly license tailored to their needs [ie, state courts where they do business, federal courts, major law reviews, and periodicals in their practice area], but usually still bill out to clients on the assumption/client agreement that longer cases take longer to review.

I just found it kind of odd that she said that it would be like $300-$400. They really couldn't just cover those fees themselves? Or is not to be used for personal use at all?

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Dicky McElephant

I just found it kind of odd that she said that it would be like $300-$400. They really couldn't just cover those fees themselves? Or is not to be used for personal use at all?

Point is, it's going to show up on the Westlaw monthly invoice.

I'm trying to remember back to how the software worked back then, but I believe each search prompted you for a 'client/matter' number and a password unique to the attorney doing the search.

There might have even been a field where you could note the nature of the research being done

There were also 'client/matter' codes for general research or continuing education, but you definitely had to specify why you were using those, because it was both an expense the firm ate and evidence of non-billable time spent at work.

So a line on the Westlaw invoice at the end of the month might look like


100.151 - In re Whatever Case it is This Week
Charles McGill
100 pages - Federal Register, vol. xx , pp yy-zz
$276.86

And that would go directly to the office manager for the firm paying the bills for Charles McGill's password.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Dicky McElephant

I just found it kind of odd that she said that it would be like $300-$400. They really couldn't just cover those fees themselves? Or is not to be used for personal use at all?

She had to get the caselaw from Westlaw - in those days, Westlaw charged you through your account per page printed.

So without his own private Westlaw account (which Jimmy wouldn't have had), he had no way to get simple access to those documents, let alone print them off. This pre-dates the ability to just google search and pull up any case you need.

Now, what doesn't make any sense is that he's in Albuquerque. UNM has a law school there and the law library will have a public access westlaw account he could have used and paid per page.

Moreover, they'll have every Southwest Reporter he could have ever wanted in hard copy - he could've just pulled the cases from the hard copy off the shelf and photocopied them. Those reporter sets come with full shepardizers that will link to other related cases as well. He's not that far out of law school; he'll still remember how to do that manually - especially since the books were still in common use back then.

Nothing about what he did made sense there. It was a bit of a deus ex machina from the writers and a little bit lazy, IMO. Jimmy's not dumb - he knew enough about Chuck's partnership agreement to know that he was walking a thin line there.

He'd have just waited a night, gone to the UNM Law Library and gotten all the cases/statutes he was after without risking getting sideways with HHM.

EDIT: Looks like Baby Lee got to some of that already. Still, he had a far better option available to him.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

She had to get the caselaw from Westlaw - in those days, Westlaw charged you through your account per page printed.

So without his own private Westlaw account (which Jimmy wouldn't have had), he had no way to get simple access to those documents, let alone print them off. This pre-dates the ability to just google search and pull up any case you need.

Now, what doesn't make any sense is that he's in Albuquerque. UNM has a law school there and the law library will have a public access westlaw account he could have used and paid per page.

Moreover, they'll have every Southwest Reporter he could have ever wanted in hard copy - he could've just pulled the cases from the hard copy off the shelf and photocopied them. Those reporter sets come with full shepardizers that will link to other related cases as well. He's not that far out of law school; he'll still remember how to do that manually - especially since the books were still in common use back then.

Nothing about what he did made sense there. It was a bit of a deus ex machina from the writers and a little bit lazy, IMO. Jimmy's not dumb - he knew enough about Chuck's partnership agreement to know that he was walking a thin line there.

He'd have just waited a night, gone to the UNM Law Library and gotten all the cases/statutes he was after without risking getting sideways with HHM.

EDIT: Looks like Baby Lee got to some of that already. Still, he had a far better option available to him.

That was my main problem with it. You would think that all three of them would have known what issues it would raise.

[Fire Me Boy!]

Holy crap, I know some of you know way more about this than the rest, but fer cryin' out loud, use some willing suspension of disbelief. It's a TV show.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!

Holy crap, I know some of you know way more about this than the rest, but fer cryin' out loud, use some willing suspension of disbelief. It's a TV show.

I'm not a big fan of suspension of disbelief in a non-fantasy setting, especially when the answers are readily available.

Good example:

Walt is a chemistry wizard, but can't figure out how to synthesize methylamine when it is, literally, a problem in an Organic Chem textbook.

Shit, I can synthesize methylamine.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!

Holy crap, I know some of you know way more about this than the rest, but fer cryin' out loud, use some willing suspension of disbelief. It's a TV show.

It seems pretty clearly set up to be a big plot point, and viewers are already murky on what's going on. So what does a little exposition hurt?

[RobBlake]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Point is, it's going to show up on the Westlaw monthly invoice.

I'm trying to remember back to how the software worked back then, but I believe each search prompted you for a 'client/matter' number and a password unique to the attorney doing the search.

There might have even been a field where you could note the nature of the research being done

There were also 'client/matter' codes for general research or continuing education, but you definitely had to specify why you were using those, because it was both an expense the firm ate and evidence of non-billable time spent at work.

So a line on the Westlaw invoice at the end of the month might look like


100.151 - In re Whatever Case it is This Week
Charles McGill
100 pages - Federal Register, vol. xx , pp yy-zz
$276.86

And that would go directly to the office manager for the firm paying the bills for Charles McGill's password.

are/were you a lawyer baby lee?

[RobBlake]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I'm not a big fan of suspension of disbelief in a non-fantasy setting, especially when the answers are readily available.

Good example:

Walt is a chemistry wizard, but can't figure out how to synthesize methylamine when it is, literally, a problem in an Organic Chem textbook.

Shit, I can synthesize methylamine.

i havent seen it for a couple months.. but would synthesizing it degrade the value... i know Walt took pride in the grade of the meth being in the high 90s

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by RobBlake

i havent seen it for a couple months.. but would synthesizing it degrade the value... i know Walt took pride in the grade of the meth being in the high 90s

The methylamine was just a precursor needed for the manufacture of methamphetamine.

All methylamine has to be synthesized. Pretty much every organic product you come in contact with on a daily basis is synthesized through an industrial process.

Purity, toxicity, and cost are the biggest issues in organic synthesis.

There are a few different processes I know of (I'm sure there are several others) by which you can produce a primary amine, like methylamine: reductive amination and Gabriel Amine Synthesis.

For someone as supposedly gifted as Walt to be unaware of how to perform reductive amination in a controlled environment (he didn't need to worry about it with Gus, but he did elsewhere) was conflict for the sake of conflict in the plot.