Mad Men

[Reaper16]

Season 4 premiered tonight. I would have bumped the season three thread but I titled it "season 3," which no longer seems appropriate.

Who saw it? It was a stupendous hour of television. All sorts of shit has happened in the eleven months that have passed (in-story) between the formation of Sterling Cooper Draper Price and the beginning of season 4. The premeir was stepped in the juices of the sexual revolution. It also had a lot to say about the increasing role of the media in the success or failure of things. It was great to see Don fail a little bit, and it was exciting to consider the future implications at the end of Don crafting a public/media persona that is completely unlike his actual personality.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I feel like they're telegraphing pretty hard that

Spoiler!

Don will end up broke. He's been pissing money away all season, and him telling Sally that she's bad with money seems like it was intended to remind us that Don is bad with money.

Nah. Don has millions upon millions. It was hard to spend millions in the 60's and Don certainly didn't live a lavish lifestyle. His NY apartment sold for $85k.

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah, it's been a little telegraphed in parts (Pete/Trudy was obvious).

And I had a pretty good idea that Don was heading out west, but I didn't figure he'd just ditch McCann after one meeting. That was a harder turn than I expected. I also didn't figure he'd just have some bizarre breakdown/epiphany where he went chasing a cocktail waitress to the hinterlands and ended up giving his Caddy to a cut-rate grifter.

I hope we've seen the last of Roger, Peggy, Pete and Joan. I like where we've left them. I don't think we need any more Betty either (I mean damn...that was cold-blooded). I wouldn't mind a little more resolution between Sally and Don, but perhaps that phonecall is the best we'll get to show that Don's still interested and perhaps even moreso than he once was.

Ted Chaough's shit-eating grin during the Miller meeting said all that needed to be said there - he's found his niche and his happy ending.

The last episode really could be all Don and I'd be content. It seems like the last episode skipped forward a month or more, so I'd be fine with maybe a 6-9 month jump forward showing him settled in. Perhaps we could even see how he's adapted as a father in light of Betty's demise.

It's not been full of twists and turns, but that's not what a final season is for. These have largely been 'stuck' landings, IMO. These characters ended in situations that made sense for them and work for me. Some of it has been easy to see coming, but not necessarily the mechanics of how those situations came to be. I mean hell, hasn't that always been the draw of Mad Men? It's not a show of shockers and cliffhangers; it's a slow burn that's just really damn well done. I feel like this season has been no different than the rest.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Nah. Don has millions upon millions. It was hard to spend millions in the 60's and Don certainly didn't live a lavish lifestyle. His NY apartment sold for $85k.

Part of me thinks that Don's share of SC&P was something like $8-10M. One million of which was given to Megan.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I hope we've seen the last of Roger, Peggy, Pete and Joan. I like where we've left them. I don't think we need any more Betty either (I mean damn...that was cold-blooded). I wouldn't mind a little more resolution between Sally and Don, but perhaps that phonecall is the best we'll get to show that Don's still interested and perhaps even moreso than he once was.

I wouldn't mind if the finale was similar to what you've stated but it would be lacking without a visual montage and voice over that spoke of each character's fate.

Weiner has stated a few times that he wants the finale to leave the viewers satisfied. Without closure for the main principles, IMO, he will have missed the mark.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

I've been skipping around the seasons that are on Netflix...

and I think Don and Megan could have worked out. 50% of everything blowing up with her was Don's philandering, that's undeniable. But I don't think the philandering comes in to play if he moved to California instead of Ted.

No way. Don is trying to fix himself. He's tried to do it with money, trappings, power, trophy wives, and lastly, with what he thought was true love. He's got to do it alone.

[Red Brooklyn]

The only character I need anymore closure on is Peggy. She's the stand-in for the audience. In order for me to feel satisfied with the ending, it'll have to come through Peggy.

I'd like to see Joan one more time, but I won't cry if we don't.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

The only character I need anymore closure on is Peggy. She's the stand-in for the audience. In order for me to feel satisfied with the ending, it'll have to come through Peggy.

I'd like to see Joan one more time, but I won't cry if we don't.

Next week will be the long awaited Freddy Rumsen-sode!!

With a small coda on Duck's doggie on the mean streets of Manhattan.

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Next week will be the long awaited Freddy Rumsen-sode!!

With a small coda on Duck's doggie on the mean streets of Manhattan.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

The only character I need anymore closure on is Peggy. She's the stand-in for the audience. In order for me to feel satisfied with the ending, it'll have to come through Peggy.

I'd like to see Joan one more time, but I won't cry if we don't.

I guess I just don't understand what kind of closure people are after.

She's locked in and geared up. We know Peggy has designs on taking over the world. We know she's going to spend a few years at McCann to build up some recognition and cache before blasting off on her own or as creative director at an up and comer.

What mechanism could there possibly be to provide greater closure than that other than Dane's 'voiceover' idea? And as there has never been a narrator in Mad Men, wouldn't that just be hackneyed as hell? Alternatively it could jump forward 5-10 years to give a true epilogue but I don't know that I'd love that idea either because it's simply been done to death.

I guess I just quibble with some folks definition of closure. With Peggy, I feel like we have it already. Do we need to know if she marries and has kids? How old she is when she dies? I don't think so. I mean heck, if we're willing to concede 'closure' with Pete, it would seem to me that Peggie's re-energized, cocksure swagger into McCann with the Octo-Porn ready for the wall provides the same level of finality. She knows who she is and what she wants, now she's going to go make it happen.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Next week will be the long awaited Freddy Rumsen-sode!!

With a small coda on Duck's doggie on the mean streets of Manhattan.

****ing Duck...

[Red Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I guess I just don't understand what kind of closure people are after.

She's locked in and geared up. We know Peggy has designs on taking over the world. We know she's going to spend a few years at McCann to build up some recognition and cache before blasting off on her own or as creative director at an up and comer.

What mechanism could there possibly be to provide greater closure than that other than Dane's 'voiceover' idea? And as there has never been a narrator in Mad Men, wouldn't that just be hackneyed as hell? Alternatively it could jump forward 5-10 years to give a true epilogue but I don't know that I'd love that idea either because it's simply been done to death.

I guess I just quibble with some folks definition of closure. With Peggy, I feel like we have it already. Do we need to know if she marries and has kids? How old she is when she dies? I don't think so. I mean heck, if we're willing to concede 'closure' with Pete, it would seem to me that Peggie's re-energized, cocksure swagger into McCann with the Octo-Porn ready for the wall provides the same level of finality. She knows who she is and what she wants, now she's going to go make it happen.

No narration, please and thank you. Voice over would be awful.

I'm sorry, I can't give you a definition of closure here. But I feel like there's more we need from Peggy. It doesn't feel done yet. Virtually every other character does to me. Because she's been our vehicle, our voice, our understanding -- and our misunderstanding -- more than Don, Peggy really is Mad Men. I'm not sure what I want. Or what I expect. All I know is that in my gut, she's not done. If there's no more to her story, I'll feel hollow about that aspect of the way Mad Men ended.

I don't always know what I want from this show. But I'm never disappointed or let down. I trust whatever Weiner has planned will be solid. An I expect Peggy to be part of whatever it is.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Red Brooklyn

No narration, please and thank you. Voice over would be awful.

. . .

This. More Peggy and solid Weiner.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

What mechanism could there possibly be to provide greater closure than that other than Dane's 'voiceover' idea? And as there has never been a narrator in Mad Men, wouldn't that just be hackneyed as hell?.

Generally speaking, voice over montages are usually awful and illustrate a lack of creativity. But if we take Weiner at his word in terms of a "satisfying ending", I'm not sure how he wrap up the series with a montage of some sort.

Hopefully, he does it brilliantly, whatever he ultimately chose.

[Pitt Gorilla]

More Don, perhaps a bit more Peggy. Maybe a shot of Roger in his new digs.

[BigRedChief]

It's looking good for closure on the show. Pete gets to end up in a happy place. He has reformed himself. Got the humility. Joan and Roger are okay.

I don't think we get any further with Peggy. It's the wrong time frame for her to get the big creative director job offer. I agree that Peggy is the glue that held the show together.


I never expected any closure with Don. I'm okay with that. He was always drifting from place to place in his life. To have him comeback and be Dad to his kids due to Betty's cancer would not be an accurate response that Don would do at this point in his life.

Please don't do any trick endings, voice overs, flashbacks etc. Play it straight. You almost got this thing home without embarrassment.