Game of Thrones Seasons 7-8

[keg in kc]

About to hit the 5000 post mark on the old thread, the first season 7 trailer today seems like the right time to start the final Game of Thones thread.

I'm going back to the original rules pre-2015. I don't think we need supervision or bannings. Just don't be a dick. Post anything you find online that hasn't aired yet inside of spoiler tags. That's pretty much it. I think we can all handle that...





For future us, 2015 thread is here: Link

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Zero reason to burn them? PFFFFF

HA!

She had EVERY reason to destroy that city.

You're right...she totally had every reason to burn the innocent men, women, and children who DID NOTHING WRONG..........even though that 100% goes against the character they built with her.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Loved the action sequences. I enjoyed watching the Dragon ****ing ripping down the walls with his fire-breath nukes. Excellent CGI there. I loved all the graphic imagery, people getting their head split etc. @ you adult males complaing about action sequences. You serious right now?

How about Gray Worm going ****ing savage? AWESOME! They beheaded his only love, ever. You're goddamn right he should be going savage and putting a spear up every one of their asses.

And **** Jon Snow for being such a pussy. I just wish Gray Worm woulda put a spear up his ass after seeing him betray Danny YET AGAIN.

Grey Worm FINALLY showing an Unsullied kick some ass was a welcome change from watching them stand there in formation and get mowed down.

And seriously - the Jaime/Tyrion conversation was as moving a moment as the show has had to date. We knew that Jaime and Tyrion were close but I think that was a perfectly crisp, succinct and poignant demonstration of just HOW close. And it also helped provide another data point on the 'Lannister's are just lunatics about their family and legacy' ledger right before the final moments with Jaime and Cersei.

It was a very good episode in a ton of ways. I'm hopeful more people will step back from the shock and review it on its own merits.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Yep. To nitpick pacing, I'd have loved for Jaime/Cersei to learn Jon's parentage in a previous episode. Buuuuuuut it's fine I guessssss.

Loved Jaime/Cersei's goodbye too, and the complete understanding both characters had in Tyrion/Varys' goodbye.

Those were fine. Tyrion and Varys kind of seemed to be playing the role meant for the other, in a way. Shouldn't Varys have been the one concerned about the innocents in Kings Landing being victimized? He's the one always going on about that. Tyrion outright stated he despises the people there, and yet he's the one begging Daenerys to show mercy and Varys is the one trying to poison her? I know Varys has been foreshadowed, but just a bit odd to me.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by Jerm

You're right...she totally had every reason to burn the innocent men, women, and children who DID NOTHING WRONG..........even though that 100% goes against the character they built with her.

You're not looking at it from her perspective. And no, it does not go against her character at all. Me thinks you simply thought of her as "Dragon Queen". DJ already hit on that though.

[Skyy God]

Way better route to where the showrunners went.

https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-...his-1834720538

[GloucesterChief]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Those were fine. Tyrion and Varys kind of seemed to be playing the role meant for the other, in a way. Shouldn't Varys have been the one concerned about the innocents in Kings Landing being victimized? He's the one always going on about that. Tyrion outright stated he despises the people there, and yet he's the one begging Daenerys to show mercy and Varys is the one trying to poison her? I know Varys has been foreshadowed, but just a bit odd to me.

I am pretty sure that Tyrion was talking about the assembled nobles in his trial since it was a complete sham after he had saved their asses in the Blackwater.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Zero reason to burn them? PFFFFF

HA!

She had EVERY reason to destroy that city.

And we continue to overlook the fact that it's just another speck on a map for her. It's another dominion to be conquered.

It has NEVER been home. As far as she's concerned it's her birthright to rule it, but beyond that it's little more than an ant farm where the ants keep being unruly and biting her ankles.

I don't know when that point really hit home yesterday. I think it was when the Lannister soldiers dropped their arms and the citizens started calling for the bells. They were the people truly vested in the long-term survival of Kings Landing.

Nobody on the other side, OTOH, can claim much of a tie to Westeros, let alone Kings Landing. Like I said, even the northerners consider themselves Westerosi by little more than executive fiat. This particular lot has been succeeding and naming their own northern king for, what, 5 years?

Kings landing carries more weight with us, the viewers, than it does to anyone on the opposing force. And when we view it through their lens, the decision to just raze it starts to make narrative sense. They blasted it down because they had nothing to do with it and are more than content blowing it apart and re-building it as they see fit.

Is that wise? History says absolutely not - nation building from the ground up absent a grass-roots, organic uprising has failed pretty much every time it's been tried. But these aren't exactly history scholars we're dealing with here. These are conquerors with their own vision and Kings Landing was getting in the way of that vision.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by GloucesterChief

I am pretty sure that Tyrion was talking about the assembled nobles in his trial since it was a complete sham after he had saved their asses in the Blackwater.

Probably was. He seemed to be speaking in a general sense about the people but he was seething about Shae at that point.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And we continue to overlook the fact that it's just another speck on a map for her. It's another dominion to be conquered.

It has NEVER been home. As far as she's concerned it's her birthright to rule it, but beyond that it's little more than an ant farm where the ants keep being unruly and biting her ankles.

I don't know when that point really hit home yesterday. I think it was when the Lannister soldiers dropped their arms and the citizens started calling for the bells. They were the people truly vested in the long-term survival of Kings Landing.

Nobody on the other side, OTOH, can claim much of a tie to Westeros, let alone Kings Landing. Like I said, even the northerners consider themselves Westerosi by little more than executive fiat. This particular lot has been succeeding and naming their own northern king for, what, 5 years?

Kings landing carries more weight with us, the viewers, than it does to anyone on the opposing force. And when we view it through their lens, the decision to just raze it starts to make narrative sense. They blasted it down because they had nothing to do with it and are more than content blowing it apart and re-building it as they see fit.

Is that wise? History says absolutely not - nation building from the ground up absent a grass-roots, organic uprising has failed pretty much every time it's been tried. But these aren't exactly history scholars we're dealing with here. These are conquerors with their own vision and Kings Landing was getting in the way of that vision.

At least for the 3 armies under Daenerys, it makes more sense to me that they would raze it instead of stopping.

Dothraki don't give a shit.

Unsullied follow Grey Worm and he's ****ing furious about Missandei.

Northerners have to have centuries of bad blood for the Lannisters.

[GloucesterChief]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

At least for the 3 armies under Daenerys, it makes more sense to me that they would raze it instead of stopping.

Dothraki don't give a shit.

Unsullied follow Grey Worm and he's ****ing furious about Missandei.

Northerners have to have centuries of bad blood for the Lannisters.

The northman pretty much keep to themselves. Their feuds tend to be with the Riverlands, you know the kingdom on their border. Also the Ironborn due to raiding.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Jerm

You're right...she totally had every reason to burn the innocent men, women, and children who DID NOTHING WRONG..........even though that 100% goes against the character they built with her.

It really doesn't.

She was demure when she had no power. And she was a 'breaker of chains' when Mereen rose up WITH her. But anyone that hasn't been with her (or hell, anyone who's simply been indifferent towards her), has been against her for the entirety of her rise.

This decision is completely within character for her and she NOTED that in her conversation with Tyrion. The showrunners did an excellent job of hitting that note but not hitting it so hard that it was a fait accompli as she sat there on the edge of the sitting with Drogon pegged against the rev-limiter. By doing what they did, there was genuine suspense building up. Is she gonna drop that clutch and tear shit up or is she gonna come off the gas and cool down.

We didn't know. We couldn't have known because for everything B&W did poorly - they did her character extremely well in that regard. That could've gone either direction and we could've pointed at reasoning for it.

She has NEVER been the benevolent wallflower so many people are now portraying her as. Left to her own devices, she'd destroy anyone that stood in her path. And when she drew a line between the citizens of Kings Landing who were going to Cersei and seeking shelter rather than rising up to help her (again, a line drawn by dozens of real-life despots), the die had been cast. As noted - when a Targaryen is born, the Gods flip a coin...

And now we see how it landed. But everything that happened there works if considered fairly, IMO.

[raybec 4]

I don't have a problem with Dany carpet bombing Kings Landing. As she said herself all she had was fear, why not play into that and give them an example of what to be afraid of.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

What irks me somewhat more (though not TOO much) is the PERFECT control over Drogon's attacks that Dany has. Unless she has a Vulcan mind-meld with the thing, I just can't understand it.

Earlier this season Jon mentioned how “it was like Rhaegal knew where he wanted to go”.

In one of the earlier seasons, Tyrion mentioned that some people believed Dragons were as intelligent as or even more intelligent than men.

You may not like it but there is precedence.

[BlackOp]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

You're goddamn right the episode was very good. Have you seen the complaints in this thread? A lot of them are ****ing ridiculous.

Well...it was better than the previous two but was still extremely flawed from a writing/directorial standpoint.

I used to study direction/directors...and the masters of the art usual dont have a lot of wasted steps. They get to the vital elements with adequate explanation/set-up....the "why". They had time to address Varys poisoning...just cut back on the 40 minutes of continuous dragon fire...hell, just cut out the beach fight. The "why" was crucial in killing off a very influential character..and explaining/believing her character shift....probably THE most important element of that episode...and it was terribly under developed.

There is also the element of "suspension of disbelief"...where the character, no matter the scenario, reacts is a realistic manner...Cersie telling the Mountain to stand by her side to protect her from the Hound...and after he disobeys....what does she do? Walks right past her "protection" into certain death...and the Hound does nothing. Did anyone believe it would have happened that way? Nope...and it brings the viewer back to the detached fact they are watching a show (disbelief)...instead of being engaged.

Was the attempted rape scene necessary?...seemed like the last thing a soldier would be doing in the heat of battle...maybe after but not then. It was out of character for her soldiers...she may have been losing her mind but ..raping an innocent woman in the streets? Nope..not buying it.

Was Crazy boatman's timing of being washed ashore...in the very spot where Jamie is entering the bowels of the castle, believable? No...it takes the viewer completely out of the scene.

The #1 responsibility of a director...is the the ability to step back and assess "Do I believe this is really happening"...it's all that matters in the end.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

At least for the 3 armies under Daenerys, it makes more sense to me that they would raze it instead of stopping.

Dothraki don't give a shit.

Unsullied follow Grey Worm and he's ****ing furious about Missandei.

Northerners have to have centuries of bad blood for the Lannisters.

Exactly.

Which is why I say that ALL of the hand-wringing comes over one critical question - would Dany have burned it all? Everything else that happened is supported by show canon and historical precedent.

And because of how B&W have handled Dany over the decade or show this has been around, I think there are plenty of arguments in FAVOR of her going ham and just torching the place. But because it's a show built on suspense, there always had to be a 'will she or won't she' element to it. They couldn't have put it too on the nose.

I really think they walked that line exceptionally well but you have to take a beat and really think about it to get to that point. That's a mark of good writing, not the example of laziness that people are claiming, IMO.