Chiefs -- Hey CP - Where exactly are you with regards to Justin Houston? - Page 5

Simply Red · 02-13-2019, 11:51 PM

I know it's not popular, but; I'm SO cool w/ him not being here next season. Let me start w/ I LOVE Justin, but it's time for an entire agitation (as far as I'm concerned) -- You guys know how much I loved him, from UGA and what not. Fell to us in the draft after a Marijuana case, and he learned from it!

Don't get it twisted - my opinion is ALL BUSINESS. We will NEVER replace JH next year regarding talent - but if we can SORT of 'come close' w/ regards to a replacement, then I'll be cool. I think if those were the cases; we can add another stud w/ just a slight sub par replacement (at that position) and also: (the ability to add another quality positional starter)

I'd like to hear from my people, here.

If this were to happen - we all know JH will be just fine in finding work w/o reducing to sacking groceries at the Winn Dixie.

Thanks all!

ChiefBlueCFC · 02-14-2019, 11:18 AM

I'm all for keeping Houston on the team this year. I would do what I could to try and restructure his deal obviously to get that cap hit down. If he doesn't want to restructure then I am probably trying to trade him this offseason, but I'm only doing it for the right price.Houston is a leader on the field and in the locker room and I don't want to lose that presence. After this year however, it's probably time to say goodbye.

However, I understand why many would want to cut Houston.

ChiefBlueCFC · 02-14-2019, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefoftheKeyboard

Kpass was asked to lose weight for his OLB switch. He was deactivated the last several games of the season. Anyone think they already knew about the switch to a 4-3 and just shut him down for the year to start preparing his body for the scheme change?

I think they were looking to the switch when they were drafting last year... DOD, Speaks, Nadi all seem better fits for the 4-3

htismaqe · 02-14-2019, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC

I think they were looking to the switch when they were drafting last year... DOD, Speaks, Nadi all seem better fits for the 4-3

Yep. Sure seems that way.

saphojunkie · 02-14-2019, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Restructure or be gone. Just business. Getting paid like your a top defensive player in the whole NFL. But your at best average these days.

you're grammer is average

oldman · 02-14-2019, 12:06 PM

Teams see how to beat us now and that's with the run game. Ask yourself this, who plays the run better? If the other QB is content with handing the ball off or throwing into the flat, Ford is a liability.

saphojunkie · 02-14-2019, 12:07 PM

A lot of limited thinking in this thread.

Things that aren't being considered:

1. You can't just say "replace Houston with a younger cheaper player who gives you close to the same production." WHO? Who the **** do you think this magical unicorn is? Do you really think there is a 4-3 rush DE who can set the edge, play the SAM, and rush the passer, who is an UFA and will cost less than the $14M cap savings you get by cutting Houston?

2. Extending Houston's deal can EASILY alleviate the cap burden, while assuring your best player on defense remains in a premier spot.

3. Between releasing Houston and letting Ford walk, I will take letting Ford walk. It: 1) saves more money. 2) has no dead cap hit. 3) will almost assuredly land at least a third round pick (either from tag and trade or from a comp pick).

What I would do with Houston is to work out an extension where his entire $21M salary in 2019 is fully guaranteed and converted to a signing bonus. Let's say he signed a three year extension, with a $24M signing bonus (converting his salary this year + $3M more). If it looked something like this:

2019: $3M salary, $6M salary cap prorated. (cap hit $9M, dead money $24M)
2020: $4M salary, $6M salary cap prorated (cap hit $10M, dead money dead money $18M)
2021: $7M salary, $6M salary cap prorated, $1M roster bonus (cap hit $14M, dead money $12)
2022: $9M salary, $6M salary cap prorated, $1M roster bonus (cap hit $16, dead money $6M)

That would be: an increase in money this year for him, lower the cap hit from $21M to $9M. It also virtually guarantees that he will be on the roster for two years, and then 2021 is your big decision year, where he is $14M to keep and $12M to cut. Basically, that would be his last year and you'd cut thim with a $6M dead cap penalty the next offseason, or Post-June 1, where it's $3M each season.

Getting Houston for an average of ~11 million a year is smart and makes sense for both sides. Unless Houston is like "**** you, cut me and I'll sign another HUGE deal." In that case, you have to try and trade him.

Buckweath · 02-14-2019, 12:24 PM

Dee Ford might be the most underrated player by this fanbase.

If not for his injuries concern, the guy showed he is a big time player last year.

He is a unanimous top 10 FA but going through this forum, you'd think he is a JAG.

htismaqe · 02-14-2019, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckweath

Dee Ford might be the most underrated player by this fanbase.

If not for his injuries concern, the guy showed he is a big time player last year.

He is a unanimous top 10 FA but going through this forum, you'd think he is a JAG.

If not for his injuries concern...you dismiss it like it's nothing.

He's been in the league for 6 years and finally put it together last year. After being hurt dozens of times in the past 10 years.

I'm not underrating Ford. I'm also not DEPENDING on a guy, and paying him more than $15M BASE SALARY for 2019, when he's never shown he's dependable.

TambaBerry · 02-14-2019, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckweath

Dee Ford might be the most underrated player by this fanbase.

If not for his injuries concern, the guy showed he is a big time player last year.

He is a unanimous top 10 FA but going through this forum, you'd think he is a JAG.

If we didn't have Houston's and Berry's awful contracts on our salary cap I'd be all for keeping Ford no problem. Sometimes you have to move on though and I feel like under our circumstances this is the best option

htismaqe · 02-14-2019, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TambaBerry

If we didn't have Houston's and Berry's awful contracts on our salary cap I'd be all for keeping Ford no problem. Sometimes you have to move on though and I feel like under our circumstances this is the best option

Yep. We're already straddled with bad contracts for guys that have had problems staying healthy. Adding a 3rd player to that mix is too much money and too much risk. They can't keep them all.

Buckweath · 02-14-2019, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TambaBerry

If we didn't have Houston's and Berry's awful contracts on our salary cap I'd be all for keeping Ford no problem. Sometimes you have to move on though and I feel like under our circumstances this is the best option

You know what's funny about those Houston and Berry contracts? I remember clearly this fanbase telling Dorsey to pay them when they were asking for the moon. And here we are now.

JimNasium · 02-14-2019, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefoftheKeyboard

Kpass was asked to lose weight for his OLB switch. He was deactivated the last several games of the season. Anyone think they already knew about the switch to a 4-3 and just shut him down for the year to start preparing his body for the scheme change?

Thank you for the correct spelling of ‘lose’. There seems to be an epidemic replacing it with ‘loose’ on Chiefsplanet.

JimNasium · 02-14-2019, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TambaBerry

If we didn't have Houston's and Berry's awful contracts on our salary cap I'd be all for keeping Ford no problem. Sometimes you have to move on though and I feel like under our circumstances this is the best option

He did seem to disappear late in the season though.

TomBarndtsTwin · 02-14-2019, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckweath

Dee Ford might be the most underrated player by this fanbase.

If not for his injuries concern, the guy showed he is a big time player last year.

He is a unanimous top 10 FA but going through this forum, you'd think he is a JAG.

He’s not a JAG but most of us here see him for what he is; a one trick pony with a concerning injury history.

Now, granted, he’s really freaking good at his one trick (rushing the passer), but he’s a liability in the other phases.

You don’t sign that type of player to a major long term deal. You just don’t.

Yes, most wanted Berry and Houston re-signed, but we waited a year too long on each, as many have pointed out and did point out at the time. At least with Houston when you signed him to the big contract, you knew you were getting a complete player. He could rush the passer, set the edge against the run and occasionally drop into coverage (yeah, I know) if you needed him to. Houston’s repertoire affords him a lot of value, and potentially even more in the new 4-3 scheme.

Dee Ford? Not so much. I like him and he seems like a good dude, but time to move on. Tag and trade or let him walk. Either/or.

philfree · 02-14-2019, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckweath

Dee Ford might be the most underrated player by this fanbase.

If not for his injuries concern, the guy showed he is a big time player last year.

He is a unanimous top 10 FA but going through this forum, you'd think he is a JAG.

Stats don't tell the whole story but Ford's stats were not much different from Khalil Mack's. Slightly better in some categories. After his untimely offsides I don't think that this fan base will embrace Ford going forward so we should tag and trade. Considering what the Bears gave for Mack we should get at least a 1st round pick for Ford and possibly more. IMO for him and the Chiefs we should move on from Ford.

02-13-2019, 11:51 PM
Simply Red You Sweetie! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2021206219 VARSITY	-- Hey CP - Where exactly are you with regards to Justin Houston? I know it's not popular, but; I'm SO cool w/ him not being here next season. Let me start w/ I LOVE Justin, but it's time for an entire agitation (as far as I'm concerned) -- You guys know how much I loved him, from UGA and what not. Fell to us in the draft after a Marijuana case, and he learned from it! Don't get it twisted - my opinion is ALL BUSINESS. We will NEVER replace JH next year regarding talent - but if we can SORT of 'come close' w/ regards to a replacement, then I'll be cool. I think if those were the cases; we can add another stud w/ just a slight sub par replacement (at that position) and also: (the ability to add another quality positional starter) I'd like to hear from my people, here. If this were to happen - we all know JH will be just fine in finding work w/o reducing to sacking groceries at the Winn Dixie. Thanks all!
Posts: 71,691

02-14-2019, 11:18 AM	#61
ChiefBlueCFC Veteran Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: KCMO BABY Casino cash: $8070410	I'm all for keeping Houston on the team this year. I would do what I could to try and restructure his deal obviously to get that cap hit down. If he doesn't want to restructure then I am probably trying to trade him this offseason, but I'm only doing it for the right price.Houston is a leader on the field and in the locker room and I don't want to lose that presence. After this year however, it's probably time to say goodbye. However, I understand why many would want to cut Houston. __________________ WE FIRED BOB SUTTON
Posts: 2,728

02-14-2019, 12:06 PM	#65
oldman Curmudgeon Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North by Northwest Casino cash: $5836784	Teams see how to beat us now and that's with the run game. Ask yourself this, who plays the run better? If the other QB is content with handing the ball off or throwing into the flat, Ford is a liability.
Posts: 5,319

02-14-2019, 12:07 PM	#66
saphojunkie MVP Join Date: Aug 2011 Casino cash: $4786250	A lot of limited thinking in this thread. Things that aren't being considered: 1. You can't just say "replace Houston with a younger cheaper player who gives you close to the same production." WHO? Who the ** do you think this magical unicorn is? Do you really think there is a 4-3 rush DE who can set the edge, play the SAM, and rush the passer, who is an UFA and will cost less than the $14M cap savings you get by cutting Houston? 2. Extending Houston's deal can EASILY alleviate the cap burden, while assuring your best player on defense remains in a premier spot. 3. Between releasing Houston and letting Ford walk, I will take letting Ford walk. It: 1) saves more money. 2) has no dead cap hit. 3) will almost assuredly land at least a third round pick (either from tag and trade or from a comp pick). What I would do with Houston is to work out an extension where his entire $21M salary in 2019 is fully guaranteed and converted to a signing bonus. Let's say he signed a three year extension, with a $24M signing bonus (converting his salary this year + $3M more). If it looked something like this: 2019: $3M salary, $6M salary cap prorated. (cap hit $9M, dead money $24M) 2020: $4M salary, $6M salary cap prorated (cap hit $10M, dead money dead money $18M) 2021: $7M salary, $6M salary cap prorated, $1M roster bonus (cap hit $14M, dead money $12) 2022: $9M salary, $6M salary cap prorated, $1M roster bonus (cap hit $16, dead money $6M) That would be: an increase in money this year for him, lower the cap hit from $21M to $9M. It also virtually guarantees that he will be on the roster for two years, and then 2021 is your big decision year, where he is $14M to keep and $12M to cut. Basically, that would be his last year and you'd cut thim with a $6M dead cap penalty the next offseason, or Post-June 1, where it's $3M each season. Getting Houston for an average of ~11 million a year is smart and makes sense for both sides. Unless Houston is like "** you, cut me and I'll sign another HUGE deal." In that case, you have to try and trade him.
Posts: 12,515	2 0

02-14-2019, 12:24 PM	#67
Buckweath Veteran Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Quebec, Canada Casino cash: $9994975	Dee Ford might be the most underrated player by this fanbase. If not for his injuries concern, the guy showed he is a big time player last year. He is a unanimous top 10 FA but going through this forum, you'd think he is a JAG.
Posts: 2,393