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Old 09-22-2019, 08:14 AM  
RodeoPants2 RodeoPants2 is offline
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Trump Didn’t Bribe Ukraine. It’s Actually Worse Than That.

Trump Didn’t Bribe Ukraine. It’s Actually Worse Than That.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ukraine-228151

Quote:
It’s easy to see why Trump’s alleged conduct has generated outrage and why lay people have rushed to describe it as categorically criminal. Using presidential power to withhold aid to a nation that was recently invaded by Russia unless they investigate your political rival sounds like the definition of a criminal quid pro quo. The possibility that Trump pressured another nation to interfere in the next presidential election on his behalf—not long after the completion of a multi-year investigation into interference in the 2016 election by Russia on his behalf—is jaw-dropping.

...

First, it gives the false impression that this is something the criminal justice system can deal with. But the criminal system is not built to handle misconduct by a president who is acting corruptly through the use of his immense constitutional powers in this manner.

Second, it suggests that if critics can point out that it is not really bribery or extortion, then it is not a huge problem, which is not true. This is already happening, as allies of the president assert that there was no explicit quid pro quo.

Third, it may give the public a false impression about what happened. Impeachment in many respects is a political act, and that means Congress needs public support to pursue it. Anything that confuses or fails to persuade the public is therefore counterproductive.

Finally, it understates the magnitude of the alleged misconduct. Labeling Trump’s alleged conduct as “bribery” or “extortion” cheapens what is alleged to have occurred and does not capture what makes it wrongful. It’s not a crime—it’s a breach of the president’s duty not to use the powers of the presidency to benefit himself. And he invited a foreign nation to influence the 2020 election on the heels of a nearly three-year investigation that proved Russia had tried to influence the last presidential election.
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:56 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You are so unimaginative. Why was it that Biden might have wanted to have the prosecutor fired? What was going on with Hunter Biden and the Ukrainian gas company that was paying him? To some extent, we’re so in the dark, we don’t even know what questions to ask. There’s a lot of territory we might be interested in investigating.

It also could relate to our assessment of whether Ukraine can be a trusted partner with this administration, given the previous Ukrainian regime’s apparent interest in a Hillary presidency.
And you actually believe that the benefit of the country is behind Trump's actions, and not trying to damage his opponent?
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Old 09-22-2019, 10:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
And you actually believe that the benefit of the country is behind Trump's actions, and not trying to damage his opponent?
Do you agree that if Trump takes an action intended to benefit the country, it’s legit even if it also benefits Trump personally or in an upcoming election?
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:00 AM   #18
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Dems didn’t care about using Ukraine to interfere with 2016 so I won’t care about it being used against them in 2020. That’s the rules.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Do you agree that if Trump takes an action intended to benefit the country, it’s legit even if it also benefits Trump personally or in an upcoming election?
I don't believe for a second that Trump's motivation here was to benefit the country. I believe that it was to benefit him, based on his past actions.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:02 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
It’s not a crime—it’s a breach of the president’s duty not to use the powers of the presidency to benefit himself. And he invited a foreign nation to influence the 2020 election on the heels of a nearly three-year investigation that proved Russia had tried to influence the last presidential election.

If this turns out to be accurate, Trumpers won't care.
For what it's worth, Donger is right, for once. I really don't care where people obtain political dirt, especially if the dirt is true.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I don't believe for a second that Trump's motivation here was to benefit the country. I believe that it was to benefit him, based on his past actions.
That wasn’t what he asked you.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I don't believe for a second that Trump's motivation here was to benefit the country. I believe that it was to benefit him, based on his past actions.
In this case, this seems like a difference without much of a distinction.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:04 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
That wasn’t what he asked you.
Yes, I know. You might note that he didn't answer my question.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:07 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I don't believe for a second that Trump's motivation here was to benefit the country. I believe that it was to benefit him, based on his past actions.
I know the TDS party line, but that isn’t an answer to my question.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:08 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes, I know. You might note that he didn't answer my question.
I answered several of your questions, but you’ve worn out your welcome again.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:14 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I know the TDS party line, but that isn’t an answer to my question.
Do you want a list of his history?
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:15 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I answered several of your questions, but you’ve worn out your welcome again.
You didn't answer this one:

And you actually believe that the benefit of the country is behind Trump's actions, and not trying to damage his opponent?

And I think I know your answer. You aren't that far gone yet.
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:17 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes, I know. You might note that he didn't answer my question.
Your tapout was acknowledged by the board, kind sir.
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:18 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
RodeoPants2 has the pedal floored, fueled by rumor and heresay alone.
Where is the rumor and hearsay
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Old 09-22-2019, 12:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by RodeoPants2 View Post
Where is the rumor and hearsay
The whistleblower’s allegation (whatever it really is) isn’t based on what he himself has witnessed. That’s the hearsay. The details about what really went on are still undeveloped/unverified. That’s the rumor.
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