Chiefs Still looks like a Sutton Defense... - Page 5

**petegz28** · 08-24-2019, 08:13 PM

Preseason, yes so not going all in on this but right now it looks like teams will own the middle of the field on us. Hope that changes come week #1

Run D looks much better though

**007** · 08-25-2019, 08:16 AM

The main thing I'm seeing is this D still likes to give away third downs. But it's still stronger than a Sutton defense

mililo4cpa · 08-25-2019, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TambaBerry

I saw our dline **** up their oline so not sure where this is coming from

Just had a chance to watch the game, and while I always treat pre-season as a glorified practice, I actually am encouraged by what I've seen.

Since everybody is vanilla (offenses and defenses), the only thing I really take is how a team rallies around the ball. When the opposing offense runs, I've seen a lot of red jerseys holding the point of attack, and basically man-handling the opposing line. Run defense is about toughness, and this team has shown that.

In regards to the pass defense: I can't definitively say at this point if they will or won't be better. But pass defense should get better than what we've seen so far due to scheming better. There's definitely not as many wide open receivers, so again, encouraging to me. Perhaps they can shore up the third down issue once they go through an actual game plan and install period.

With all that said, there are definitely good signs that this defense can make some improvement and give our offense 2 - 3 extra touches a game

mililo4cpa · 08-25-2019, 08:23 AM

Also note that, as soon as Mahomes leaves the game, our offense goes 3 and out....that's not going to happen too often in the regular season. We'll have many sustained drives, which will give our defense a chance to rest, recover, and adjust to what the other teams are doing.

In short, I think we'll be OK

rabblerouser · 08-25-2019, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mililo4cpa

Also note that, as soon as Mahomes leaves the game, our offense goes 3 and out....that's not going to happen too often in the regular season. We'll have many sustained drives, which will give our defense a chance to rest, recover, and adjust to what the other teams are doing.

In short, I think we'll be OK

This.

ThaVirus · 08-25-2019, 08:55 AM

Looks different but the results are similar.

The DL and LBs are collapsing running lanes which is a nice shift. Guys are flying to the ball carrier, not as many missed tackles.

Less pressure on the QB and the secondary is still garbage. Breeland is trash and Thornhill has a ways to go. Any veteran QB is likely to eat us alive.

3rd down defense still leaves a lot to be desired.

It's preseason, though. I remember being worried about the offense after last year's preseason and look how that turned out.

**ChiTown** · 08-25-2019, 09:10 AM

I think this D has some issues that they need to address, but in NO WAY do they remind me of Sutton's D. That’s just a really poor take.

King_Chief_Fan · 08-25-2019, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Looks different but the results are similar.

The DL and LBs are collapsing running lanes which is a nice shift. Guys are flying to the ball carrier, not as many missed tackles.

Less pressure on the QB and the secondary is still garbage. Breeland is trash and Thornhill has a ways to go. Any veteran QB is likely to eat us alive.

3rd down defense still leaves a lot to be desired.

It's preseason, though. I remember being worried about the offense after last year's preseason and look how that turned out.

100% Truths

stevieray · 08-25-2019, 09:12 AM

I think that they will gel into what we need.

Biggest hurdles? Getting off the field on third down, and good run defense. We can't allow sustained drives that keep PM on the sidelines.

See first half of the AFCCG.

**ChiTown** · 08-25-2019, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray

I think that they will gel into what we need.

Biggest hurdles? Getting off the field on third down, and good run defense. We can't allow sustained drives that keep PM on the sidelines.

See first half of the AFCCG.

BINGO!

ping2000 · 08-25-2019, 09:47 AM

If we had the 30th ranked defense instead of 31st we would have probably played in the Super Bowl last year. Holy crap, if we even move up 3 or 4 spots we have chance to go all the way. I'd be happy if they could just be in the upper half of defenses instead of the bottom two. Also, **** you grandpa Bob ****ing Sutton.

**gblowfish** · 08-25-2019, 09:48 AM

I'm a little worried about stopping crossing routes or throws to the TE on 3rd and mid. I don't think Spags has shown many blitzes during pre-season. It's been pretty vanilla. If two or three games in we're still allowing a 50% conversion rate on 3rd down, I'll be worried. I think Frank Clark will be terrific as an edge rusher. He beat Staley like a rented mule in the sack he got last night. Staley is a future HOF tackle.

Coogs · 08-25-2019, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

I'm a little worried about stopping crossing routes or throws to the TE on 3rd and mid. I don't think Spags has shown many blitzes during pre-season. It's been pretty vanilla. If two or three games in we're still allowing a 50% conversion rate on 3rd down, I'll be worried. I think Frank Clark will be terrific as an edge rusher. He beat Staley like a rented mule in the sack he got last night. Staley is a future HOF tackle.

That's where those two interceptions that Speaks had on Maahomes can come into play. The surprise drop of a d-lineman into that crossing route on a zone blitz an sometimes catch the offense by surprise.

Chieftain · 08-25-2019, 10:19 AM

The run defense has greatly improved compared to last season. I liked Thornhill's play. He got beat a couple of times but it was more him covering two guys at the same time since the cornerback was out of position. I also liked Claiborne's play. He looked solid and created little separation with the opposing receivers. Breeland was decent as well. You add Fuller to the mix and our corners are not as bad as some here think. Ward did look awful though.

Yosef_Malkovitch · 08-25-2019, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ping2000

If we had the 30th ranked defense instead of 31st we would have probably played in the Super Bowl last year. Holy crap, if we even move up 3 or 4 spots we have chance to go all the way. I'd be happy if they could just be in the upper half of defenses instead of the bottom two. Also, **** you grandpa Bob ****ing Sutton.

This. The defense does not need to be great. Mediocre will be good enough.

HolyHandgernade · 08-25-2019, 10:30 AM

I'm not worried at this point:

A: Generally, across the NFL, offenses are ahead of defenses. Defense is de-emphasized by today's NFL rules. Even in training camp, the rules limit certain skill needs for actual games, like live tackling. Communication on defense is slower to develop especially if 1. a new scheme, 2. a new coach (staff), 3. new primary players. We have all of that.

B: Its mostly the base defense. The point of pre-season isn't about winning games, its about putting players in roles with the most basic of assignments and noting how well they perform in that structure. Can they do their job without much cover to shore up weaknesses in game simulation? Now's the time to sort that out while putting together the 53.

C. Because its base defense, you're not going to get to see the exotic elements of this scheme, most notably the stunts Spags and Daly are known for. Its just not important enough to wow us in pre-season and then give Jax tape to prepare for.

D. What are teams going to try and do to us? They're going to try and take the air out of the ball, which means a lot of rushing attack. The fact the defense in its base scheme looks so much more aggressive in its base defense than the past is a really encouraging sign.

E. Getting comfortable in the zone coverage scheme. Piggybacking off of A, the communication in the backfield will come the slowest, and it will be frustrating at times. Our best hope is that it starts to gel in the last quarter of the season. Many former players under Spags say it takes a season to really digest his defense. That's OK, because we have an offense to cover for the adjustment period. We have to think more like the Patriots in this regard. They're never the same team in the first portion of the season as they are in the last part of the season. If we have steady (but slow) improvement, and then it clicks at the end, that is what we want.

If you're looking for the defense to be world beaters out of the gate, you're going to be disappointed. Try and keep in mind there's a lot of change to adjust from a unit ranked 31 out of 32. This offense was a defensive pre snap brain fart from going to the Super Bowl. Its not going to take much to really give this team the edge on everyone else.

08-24-2019, 08:13 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $2834127	Still looks like a Sutton Defense... Preseason, yes so not going all in on this but right now it looks like teams will own the middle of the field on us. Hope that changes come week #1 Run D looks much better though
Posts: 127,981

08-25-2019, 08:16 AM	#61
007 Shaken. Not stirred. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Casino cash: $14060126 VARSITY	The main thing I'm seeing is this D still likes to give away third downs. But it's still stronger than a Sutton defense __________________ My dear girl, there are some things that just aren’t done. Such as, drinking Dom Perignon ’53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s just as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs.
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08-25-2019, 08:23 AM	#63
mililo4cpa Veteran Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Orlando, FL Casino cash: $3230400	Also note that, as soon as Mahomes leaves the game, our offense goes 3 and out....that's not going to happen too often in the regular season. We'll have many sustained drives, which will give our defense a chance to rest, recover, and adjust to what the other teams are doing. In short, I think we'll be OK
Posts: 3,230

08-25-2019, 08:55 AM	#65
ThaVirus Settle this once and forever Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $2122369	Looks different but the results are similar. The DL and LBs are collapsing running lanes which is a nice shift. Guys are flying to the ball carrier, not as many missed tackles. Less pressure on the QB and the secondary is still garbage. Breeland is trash and Thornhill has a ways to go. Any veteran QB is likely to eat us alive. 3rd down defense still leaves a lot to be desired. It's preseason, though. I remember being worried about the offense after last year's preseason and look how that turned out.
Posts: 44,228	1 1

08-25-2019, 09:10 AM	#66
ChiTown Stroking to the SB Champs! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Flatlands of Kansas Casino cash: $3333962	I think this D has some issues that they need to address, but in NO WAY do they remind me of Sutton's D. That’s just a really poor take. __________________
Posts: 39,319

08-25-2019, 09:12 AM	#68
stevieray best in the biz Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Under Pressure Casino cash: $2625273	I think that they will gel into what we need. Biggest hurdles? Getting off the field on third down, and good run defense. We can't allow sustained drives that keep PM on the sidelines. See first half of the AFCCG.
Posts: 71,171

08-25-2019, 09:47 AM	#70
ping2000 Changes pants while driving Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Washington D.C. Casino cash: $5940495	If we had the 30th ranked defense instead of 31st we would have probably played in the Super Bowl last year. Holy crap, if we even move up 3 or 4 spots we have chance to go all the way. I'd be happy if they could just be in the upper half of defenses instead of the bottom two. Also, ** you grandpa Bob **ing Sutton.
Posts: 15,766

08-25-2019, 09:48 AM	#71
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $17686178 VARSITY	I'm a little worried about stopping crossing routes or throws to the TE on 3rd and mid. I don't think Spags has shown many blitzes during pre-season. It's been pretty vanilla. If two or three games in we're still allowing a 50% conversion rate on 3rd down, I'll be worried. I think Frank Clark will be terrific as an edge rusher. He beat Staley like a rented mule in the sack he got last night. Staley is a future HOF tackle.
Posts: 40,830

08-25-2019, 10:19 AM	#73
Chieftain Fan since 1997 Join Date: Nov 2018 Casino cash: $1900400	The run defense has greatly improved compared to last season. I liked Thornhill's play. He got beat a couple of times but it was more him covering two guys at the same time since the cornerback was out of position. I also liked Claiborne's play. He looked solid and created little separation with the opposing receivers. Breeland was decent as well. You add Fuller to the mix and our corners are not as bad as some here think. Ward did look awful though.
Posts: 2,473

08-25-2019, 10:30 AM	#75
HolyHandgernade Integralist Join Date: May 2001 Location: Murrieta, CA Casino cash: $10006370	I'm not worried at this point: A: Generally, across the NFL, offenses are ahead of defenses. Defense is de-emphasized by today's NFL rules. Even in training camp, the rules limit certain skill needs for actual games, like live tackling. Communication on defense is slower to develop especially if 1. a new scheme, 2. a new coach (staff), 3. new primary players. We have all of that. B: Its mostly the base defense. The point of pre-season isn't about winning games, its about putting players in roles with the most basic of assignments and noting how well they perform in that structure. Can they do their job without much cover to shore up weaknesses in game simulation? Now's the time to sort that out while putting together the 53. C. Because its base defense, you're not going to get to see the exotic elements of this scheme, most notably the stunts Spags and Daly are known for. Its just not important enough to wow us in pre-season and then give Jax tape to prepare for. D. What are teams going to try and do to us? They're going to try and take the air out of the ball, which means a lot of rushing attack. The fact the defense in its base scheme looks so much more aggressive in its base defense than the past is a really encouraging sign. E. Getting comfortable in the zone coverage scheme. Piggybacking off of A, the communication in the backfield will come the slowest, and it will be frustrating at times. Our best hope is that it starts to gel in the last quarter of the season. Many former players under Spags say it takes a season to really digest his defense. That's OK, because we have an offense to cover for the adjustment period. We have to think more like the Patriots in this regard. They're never the same team in the first portion of the season as they are in the last part of the season. If we have steady (but slow) improvement, and then it clicks at the end, that is what we want. If you're looking for the defense to be world beaters out of the gate, you're going to be disappointed. Try and keep in mind there's a lot of change to adjust from a unit ranked 31 out of 32. This offense was a defensive pre snap brain fart from going to the Super Bowl. Its not going to take much to really give this team the edge on everyone else. __________________ You'll see it's all a show, keep 'em laughing as you go, just remember, the last laugh is on you, and always look on the bright side of life!
Posts: 3,875