Chiefs Mellinger: Fire Sutton - Page 19

excessive · 01-07-2018, 04:03 PM

Chiefs need change, and they should begin by firing defensive coordinator Bob Sutton
BY SAM MELLINGER

smellinger@kcstar.com

UPDATED 40 MINUTES AGO

Bob Sutton needs to be fired.

The Chiefs should be looking for a new defensive coordinator. There is no joy in calling for a man’s job, but then, there is no joy in watching a defense underperform its talent and fair expectations over and over and over again.

This can’t continue. That is plain. That is obvious.

Andy Reid isn’t ready to talk about this yet and that’s fine, that’s understandable, that’s his right. What’s more — that’s smart.

The head coach lives this in a way that requires space for any major change. Emotional decisions are usually bad decisions, and Reid had to know the Will You Fire Your DC question was coming in the postmortem press conference the day after another embarrassing postseason collapse.

And he had to know he would answer it with a vague non-answer.

“Time in this league has a funny way of working,” Reid said. “You’ve gotta step back. You’ve gotta evaluate. You’ve gotta go through that process. Look at what’s real, and what’s not. You don’t want to do it when you’re emotional or still tied into what happened obviously last night.

“You’ve gotta fight that. A question like that, you’ve gotta fight that. You step back and you evaluate it, and do what’s right for the Chiefs. If you always come back to that, you’re going to be OK.”

That’s an 86-word excerpt from a longer answer that can be generally summarized: “I just had my heart ripped out, again, and am not yet ready to make any decision more serious than lunch.”

Chiefs' Andy Reid reflects on Wild Card playoff loss: 'We've got to do better'
Kansas City Chiefs coach Andy Reid held a press conference a day after the Chiefs’ 22-21 loss to the Tennessee Titans in an AFC Wild Card playoff game. It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record.

Allison Long The Kansas City Star
Again, you can understand where he’s coming from. Even if he somehow has already decided to move on from Sutton, he hasn’t had a chance to tell his friend and longtime assistant yet, and taking some time comes with no downside.

Potential replacements aren’t being hired, and in fact may still be working. More to the point, Reid’s coaching philosophy centers around personal accountability.

After every loss, he says some form of, “we need to get better and that starts with me.” After the offense played dead in the second half against the Titans, Reid said he called the plays that didn’t work and assistant Matt Nagy called the plays that did.

Firing his defensive coordinator the next day would reek of scapegoating.

But if he hasn’t yet, Reid must soon come to the cold and unemotional conclusion that the Chiefs need a new voice for the defense.

That needs to be only part of the change. Alex Smith must be replaced by Patrick Mahomes, offensive line coach Andy Heck needs to make a convincing case to keep his job, and no position group on the team underperformed as much as the defensive line coached by Reid’s son Britt.

Reid himself should wear the biggest chunk of this loss. He just finished his 19th season as a head coach and by now has earned a reputation for regular season success and postseason failure.

Seventy-eight teams have led by 18 or more at halftime of a playoff game. Only four have lost, and two have been coached by Reid in the last five seasons. He is tied for the third-most playoff losses of any coach in NFL history, and the two ahead of him won multiple Super Bowls.

Chiefs are on this list twice: Teams blowing an 18-point halftime lead in NFL playoffs
According to ESPN research, Andy Reid's Chiefs teams are responsible for two of the only four times in modern NFL playoff history a team has blown an 18-point or larger halftime lead.

Neil Nakahodo, David Eulitt, Shane Keyser, John Sleezer, Allison Long The Kansas City Star
Since 2001, he has won just one playoff game as the underdog, and lost seven as the favorite.

The loss to the Titans followed a familiar pattern: the offense went cold, the defense couldn’t get off the field and the Chiefs had a chance to win at the end and failed.

The standard for this team was always postseason success, so the outcome is a failure, and any credible evaluation of another wasted opportunity must acknowledge Reid’s share of this.

But he’s not going anywhere, for better or worse. Chairman Clark Hunt values the stability Reid has created after the horror show Pioli years, Reid signed a contract extension last summer, and he’ll oversee the quarterback transition to Patrick Mahomes.

Sutton has no excuse, and no cushion.

The Chiefs were 28th in total defense, and 27th in yards surrendered per play. They could not stop the run (24th in yards per carry, 202 given up in the playoff loss), which tended to overshadow the fact that they could not stop the pass (24th in yards per attempt).

Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson: 'If you’re good enough, you come out with that win'
Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson called Saturday's playoff loss to the Titans one of the toughest of his career.

Sam Mcdowell The Kansas City Star
The advanced metrics, if anything, are worse. Football Outsiders’ DVOA ranks the Chiefs dead last in the league in overall defense.

This fits what the eye sees, too. They could not get off the field on third down (23rd, and second worst among playoff teams), and could not adjust to opponents’ schemes. Sutton allowed Daniel Sorensen to be exposed against the run for far too long, didn’t do enough to scheme pressure, and was far too easy to manipulate.

His scheme had Justin Houston rushing the passer or dropping into coverage based on what the offense showed, which meant the other side was controlling what the Chiefs’ best player did on any given snap.

Sutton had enough to work with, too, even after losing Eric Berry for the season. The Chiefs spend more than half their salary cap on defense, and that’s with stars like Chris Jones and Marcus Peters still on rookie deals, and Reggie Ragland playing for relative peanuts.

If it was bad luck that Berry played just one game, it was good luck that Houston played 17. The injury excuse is a tired one, anyway. Every team has something. The Titans had two defensive starters on IR, and they managed.

Coaches are supposed to put their players in position to succeed, and far too often, Sutton was doing the opposite. The Patriots gave up an average of 32 points in their first four games (including a season-high 42 to the Chiefs in the opener) and then an average of just 14 the rest of the way.

Patriots coach Bill Belichick is an unrealistic standard for defensive scheme, but this is two years in a row the Chiefs have lost a playoff game at home as the betting favorite largely because they could not stop the run and get off the field on third down.

Against the Titans, a team with a struggling quarterback and dangerous running back, the Chiefs used far too much nickel and even dime personnel — including on Derrick Henry’s 35 yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter.

Whether that was because the Titans were able to influence the Chiefs’ substitutions with their own personnel, or because Sutton made the decision on his own is irrelevant. This just can’t continue.

Let us say it one more time: Sutton is not the only problem, and may not even be the biggest.

Reid is Sutton’s boss, and could’ve better protected his defense and an 18-point lead with more carries for the league’s leading rusher.

Even so, the offense could’ve won the game on its last possession, and this is a staggering fact: all but one of the Chiefs’ losses this season could’ve been wins if the offense performed better on its last drive.

The Chiefs aren’t giving the next defensive coordinator a fair shot if they don’t improve the personnel, too, which is part of why the team needs to replace Smith with Mahomes. The change would create $17 million in cap space and whatever draft picks they can acquire in a trade, which is enough for a corner, edge rusher, and defensive lineman.

There can be no doubt, in any part of the organization, about whether change is needed. We can have lively and smart debates about how far that change needs to go.

But there is no question that it needs to include the defensive coordinator, whenever Reid is ready.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...193446229.html

Sassy Squatch · 01-09-2018, 04:41 PM

On the bright side, its nice to know that anytime one of our key defensive players gets seriously injured and misses the season, I can just tune out the rest of the year because Bob Sutton won't have the TALENT he needs to run his scheme sufficiently.

Sassy Squatch · 01-09-2018, 04:43 PM

Goddamn, I feel bad for Pittsburgh. Surely they have no chance after losing their best player on D. Can't expect the coordinator to make up for his absence with schematic changes, no sir.

Hammock Parties · 01-09-2018, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

On the bright side, its nice to know that anytime one of our key defensive players gets seriously injured and misses the season, I can just tune out the rest of the year because Bob Sutton won't have the TALENT he needs to run his scheme sufficiently.

I think that's my point entirely.

Bob lost his best defender and still managed to put together a unit with spit and baling wire that got us to the playoffs, and put us in a position to win a playoff game.

I really thought it was a remarkable coaching job.

You think it's easy holding the Eagles to 20 points with that collection of bums?

arrwheader · 01-09-2018, 04:44 PM

Why the **** is Bob still on the ****ing team. Other teams are making their moves. Must mean another year with this stupid **** blowing leads for us. God damnit it’s going to make watching extremely hard knowing that nim wit is still in charge of the D.

Hammock Parties · 01-09-2018, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Goddamn, I feel bad for Pittsburgh. Surely they have no chance after losing their best player on D. Can't expect the coordinator to make up for his absence with schematic changes, no sir.

The Steelers gave up 38 points to the Ravens without Shazier, 27 to the Pats and 24 to the Browns.

I don't think there's ANY question that Bob's unit was superior to Pittsburgh down the stretch.

Sassy Squatch · 01-09-2018, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

I think that's my point entirely.

Bob lost his best defender and still managed to put together a unit with spit and baling wire that got us to the playoffs, and put us in a position to win a playoff game.

I really thought it was a remarkable coaching job.

You think it's easy holding the Eagles to 20 points with that collection of bums?

Because when we got INTO the playoffs he and his defenders choked. Again.

Hammock Parties · 01-09-2018, 04:54 PM

I'm going to post a statistic that is going to shock the Bob Sutton haters. Are you ready? Get ready, because this is going to blow your minds. You are absolutely going to question why you thought Bob Sutton sucked when you read this number.

This is crazy. I mean there's no WAY this could be true given all the hate for Bob Sutton around here, but it is. It's a plain fact.

In the last eight weeks of this season, after working his magic in a dark corner of Arrowhead during the bye week, Bob Sutton, the worst ****ing defensive coordinator in the history of organized sports fielded a collection of players that were SO badly misused the Chiefs held their opponents to....

Spoiler!

**RealSNR** · 01-09-2018, 04:55 PM

Did Sutton ever work for any youth football camps? Maybe CP can fund together some money to pay off a former participant to lie and say that Sutton diddled him years ago.

What do you all think? $1000 should be enough, right?

Sassy Squatch · 01-09-2018, 04:58 PM

Here's a simple stat for why I want Bob Sutton fired. His defenses blew halftime leads of 18 and 28 points in playoff games. Only happened 4 times in history.

**Easy 6** · 01-09-2018, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

2nd and 10 is a passing down. You want the Chiefs to line up in base with 3 wide receivers on the field? When the Titans had been throwing almost every play on the drive?

The Chiefs were lined up like that because they thought it was a pass.

I mean sure, they guessed wrong, but the call wasn't an issue here. They are mirroring the offensive formation.

The REAL issue is here that we had an UNBLOCKED defensive lineman who didn't even attempt to tackle the RB.

I'm guessing he missed his assignment bad. And of course the playside defenders don't get off blocks. And who knows what the **** Sorensen is doing. Those two guys screwed this play.

This is a classic example of a TALENT issue. If just ONE of those defenders gets off a block it's a different play.

Why the hell is Bad Bob guessing pass in the first place?

Why the need for some weird ass passing down alignment against a team that cant throw it worth a SHIT?

Their strength is that lines run blocking ahead of 240 Big 'John' Henry... what the hell was Sutton doing anticipating a pass here?

He needs to to GO

Hammock Parties · 01-09-2018, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Here's a simple stat for why I want Bob Sutton fired. His defenses blew halftime leads of 18 and 28 points in playoff games. Only happened 4 times in history.

Look, I realize you really wanted to have a nice steak dinner. I get it. But you're blaming the instant mashed potatoes for ruining your evening when you bought the steak at the dollar store.

Remember a couple years ago when you had a steak dinner and Bobby "Flay" Sutton made the mashed potatoes from scratch? Nice yukon golds, with lots of cream and butter and garlic. The best ****ing mashed potatoes ever. You actually just ate all the potatoes in one go because they were so good, and then moved on to the steak.

Your cheapass cut of cow ass still ****ing ruined the dinner, didn't it? You looked over at some asshole from New England sinking his teeth into a juicy, delicious 38-year aged piece of beef and were like "damn that'd be nice."

I'm going to guess that the next time you have a steak dinner, if you get a good cut of meat, like a really nice strip from a fresh young Holstein that just got off the cattle car from Texas, you're going to really ****ing enjoy it even if you have instant potatoes on the side. I bet if you just add a little gravy to them - you remember this year when you ran out of gravy in Week 1 - you won't even notice they're instant.

You can have a pretty nice steak dinner with average potatoes, is what I'm saying.

RunKC · 01-09-2018, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

I'm going to post a statistic that is going to shock the Bob Sutton haters. Are you ready? Get ready, because this is going to blow your minds. You are absolutely going to question why you thought Bob Sutton sucked when you read this number.

This is crazy. I mean there's no WAY this could be true given all the hate for Bob Sutton around here, but it is. It's a plain fact.

In the last eight weeks of this season, after working his magic in a dark corner of Arrowhead during the bye week, Bob Sutton, the worst ****ing defensive coordinator in the history of organized sports fielded a collection of players that were SO badly misused the Chiefs held their opponents to....

Spoiler!

We played shit offenses

Sassy Squatch · 01-09-2018, 05:13 PM

I won't deny the dude ran a ****ing good defense when he had all pro talents in their prime.

Hammock Parties · 01-09-2018, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

We played shit offenses

San Diego wasn't a shit offense. Miami had just got done having their way with the Pats.

Bobby Flay also stayed up extra late studying that Oakland tape and solved the riddle. C'mon, give him some credit!

**Easy 6** · 01-09-2018, 05:20 PM

What a dumbass hill to die on, Clay

ITS TIME FOR A CHANGE!... but lets keep Sutton

01-07-2018, 04:03 PM
excessive Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $9766885	Mellinger: Fire Sutton Chiefs need change, and they should begin by firing defensive coordinator Bob Sutton BY SAM MELLINGER smellinger@kcstar.com UPDATED 40 MINUTES AGO Bob Sutton needs to be fired. The Chiefs should be looking for a new defensive coordinator. There is no joy in calling for a man’s job, but then, there is no joy in watching a defense underperform its talent and fair expectations over and over and over again. This can’t continue. That is plain. That is obvious. Andy Reid isn’t ready to talk about this yet and that’s fine, that’s understandable, that’s his right. What’s more — that’s smart. The head coach lives this in a way that requires space for any major change. Emotional decisions are usually bad decisions, and Reid had to know the Will You Fire Your DC question was coming in the postmortem press conference the day after another embarrassing postseason collapse. And he had to know he would answer it with a vague non-answer. “Time in this league has a funny way of working,” Reid said. “You’ve gotta step back. You’ve gotta evaluate. You’ve gotta go through that process. Look at what’s real, and what’s not. You don’t want to do it when you’re emotional or still tied into what happened obviously last night. “You’ve gotta fight that. A question like that, you’ve gotta fight that. You step back and you evaluate it, and do what’s right for the Chiefs. If you always come back to that, you’re going to be OK.” That’s an 86-word excerpt from a longer answer that can be generally summarized: “I just had my heart ripped out, again, and am not yet ready to make any decision more serious than lunch.” Chiefs' Andy Reid reflects on Wild Card playoff loss: 'We've got to do better' Kansas City Chiefs coach Andy Reid held a press conference a day after the Chiefs’ 22-21 loss to the Tennessee Titans in an AFC Wild Card playoff game. It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record. Allison Long The Kansas City Star Again, you can understand where he’s coming from. Even if he somehow has already decided to move on from Sutton, he hasn’t had a chance to tell his friend and longtime assistant yet, and taking some time comes with no downside. Potential replacements aren’t being hired, and in fact may still be working. More to the point, Reid’s coaching philosophy centers around personal accountability. After every loss, he says some form of, “we need to get better and that starts with me.” After the offense played dead in the second half against the Titans, Reid said he called the plays that didn’t work and assistant Matt Nagy called the plays that did. Firing his defensive coordinator the next day would reek of scapegoating. But if he hasn’t yet, Reid must soon come to the cold and unemotional conclusion that the Chiefs need a new voice for the defense. That needs to be only part of the change. Alex Smith must be replaced by Patrick Mahomes, offensive line coach Andy Heck needs to make a convincing case to keep his job, and no position group on the team underperformed as much as the defensive line coached by Reid’s son Britt. Reid himself should wear the biggest chunk of this loss. He just finished his 19th season as a head coach and by now has earned a reputation for regular season success and postseason failure. Seventy-eight teams have led by 18 or more at halftime of a playoff game. Only four have lost, and two have been coached by Reid in the last five seasons. He is tied for the third-most playoff losses of any coach in NFL history, and the two ahead of him won multiple Super Bowls. Chiefs are on this list twice: Teams blowing an 18-point halftime lead in NFL playoffs According to ESPN research, Andy Reid's Chiefs teams are responsible for two of the only four times in modern NFL playoff history a team has blown an 18-point or larger halftime lead. Neil Nakahodo, David Eulitt, Shane Keyser, John Sleezer, Allison Long The Kansas City Star Since 2001, he has won just one playoff game as the underdog, and lost seven as the favorite. The loss to the Titans followed a familiar pattern: the offense went cold, the defense couldn’t get off the field and the Chiefs had a chance to win at the end and failed. The standard for this team was always postseason success, so the outcome is a failure, and any credible evaluation of another wasted opportunity must acknowledge Reid’s share of this. But he’s not going anywhere, for better or worse. Chairman Clark Hunt values the stability Reid has created after the horror show Pioli years, Reid signed a contract extension last summer, and he’ll oversee the quarterback transition to Patrick Mahomes. Sutton has no excuse, and no cushion. The Chiefs were 28th in total defense, and 27th in yards surrendered per play. They could not stop the run (24th in yards per carry, 202 given up in the playoff loss), which tended to overshadow the fact that they could not stop the pass (24th in yards per attempt). Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson: 'If you’re good enough, you come out with that win' Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson called Saturday's playoff loss to the Titans one of the toughest of his career. Sam Mcdowell The Kansas City Star The advanced metrics, if anything, are worse. Football Outsiders’ DVOA ranks the Chiefs dead last in the league in overall defense. This fits what the eye sees, too. They could not get off the field on third down (23rd, and second worst among playoff teams), and could not adjust to opponents’ schemes. Sutton allowed Daniel Sorensen to be exposed against the run for far too long, didn’t do enough to scheme pressure, and was far too easy to manipulate. His scheme had Justin Houston rushing the passer or dropping into coverage based on what the offense showed, which meant the other side was controlling what the Chiefs’ best player did on any given snap. Sutton had enough to work with, too, even after losing Eric Berry for the season. The Chiefs spend more than half their salary cap on defense, and that’s with stars like Chris Jones and Marcus Peters still on rookie deals, and Reggie Ragland playing for relative peanuts. If it was bad luck that Berry played just one game, it was good luck that Houston played 17. The injury excuse is a tired one, anyway. Every team has something. The Titans had two defensive starters on IR, and they managed. Coaches are supposed to put their players in position to succeed, and far too often, Sutton was doing the opposite. The Patriots gave up an average of 32 points in their first four games (including a season-high 42 to the Chiefs in the opener) and then an average of just 14 the rest of the way. Patriots coach Bill Belichick is an unrealistic standard for defensive scheme, but this is two years in a row the Chiefs have lost a playoff game at home as the betting favorite largely because they could not stop the run and get off the field on third down. Against the Titans, a team with a struggling quarterback and dangerous running back, the Chiefs used far too much nickel and even dime personnel — including on Derrick Henry’s 35 yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter. Whether that was because the Titans were able to influence the Chiefs’ substitutions with their own personnel, or because Sutton made the decision on his own is irrelevant. This just can’t continue. Let us say it one more time: Sutton is not the only problem, and may not even be the biggest. Reid is Sutton’s boss, and could’ve better protected his defense and an 18-point lead with more carries for the league’s leading rusher. Even so, the offense could’ve won the game on its last possession, and this is a staggering fact: all but one of the Chiefs’ losses this season could’ve been wins if the offense performed better on its last drive. The Chiefs aren’t giving the next defensive coordinator a fair shot if they don’t improve the personnel, too, which is part of why the team needs to replace Smith with Mahomes. The change would create $17 million in cap space and whatever draft picks they can acquire in a trade, which is enough for a corner, edge rusher, and defensive lineman. There can be no doubt, in any part of the organization, about whether change is needed. We can have lively and smart debates about how far that change needs to go. But there is no question that it needs to include the defensive coordinator, whenever Reid is ready. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...193446229.html
Posts: 383

01-09-2018, 04:41 PM	#271
Sassy Squatch The man you could post like. Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $2549655	On the bright side, its nice to know that anytime one of our key defensive players gets seriously injured and misses the season, I can just tune out the rest of the year because Bob Sutton won't have the TALENT he needs to run his scheme sufficiently.
Posts: 37,798

01-09-2018, 04:43 PM	#272
Sassy Squatch The man you could post like. Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $2549655	Goddamn, I feel bad for Pittsburgh. Surely they have no chance after losing their best player on D. Can't expect the coordinator to make up for his absence with schematic changes, no sir.
Posts: 37,798

01-09-2018, 04:44 PM	#274
arrwheader Veteran Join Date: Dec 2011 Casino cash: $3176613	Why the ** is Bob still on the ing team. Other teams are making their moves. Must mean another year with this stupid ** blowing leads for us. God damnit it’s going to make watching extremely hard knowing that nim wit is still in charge of the D.
Posts: 3,475	0 1

01-09-2018, 04:54 PM	#277
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $4800478	I'm going to post a statistic that is going to shock the Bob Sutton haters. Are you ready? Get ready, because this is going to blow your minds. You are absolutely going to question why you thought Bob Sutton sucked when you read this number. This is crazy. I mean there's no WAY this could be true given all the hate for Bob Sutton around here, but it is. It's a plain fact. In the last eight weeks of this season, after working his magic in a dark corner of Arrowhead during the bye week, Bob Sutton, the worst **ing defensive coordinator in the history of organized sports fielded a collection of players that were SO badly misused the Chiefs held their opponents to.... Spoiler!** 18.2 OFFENSIVE POINTS PER GAME Did you know, children, that would rank FOURTH IN THE NFL this season? __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 277,512

01-09-2018, 04:58 PM	#279
Sassy Squatch The man you could post like. Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $2549655	Here's a simple stat for why I want Bob Sutton fired. His defenses blew halftime leads of 18 and 28 points in playoff games. Only happened 4 times in history.
Posts: 37,798

01-09-2018, 05:13 PM	#283
Sassy Squatch The man you could post like. Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $2549655	I won't deny the dude ran a ****ing good defense when he had all pro talents in their prime.
Posts: 37,798

01-09-2018, 05:20 PM	#285
Easy 6 pie is never free Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat Casino cash: $3817775	What a dumbass hill to die on, Clay ITS TIME FOR A CHANGE!... but lets keep Sutton
Posts: 91,586