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Old 01-15-2019, 01:05 PM  
dlphg9 dlphg9 is offline
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Patrick Mahomes - A Godly Hard Count

So something that I haven't seen many people talking about is how good Patrick Mahomes is at getting the D to jump off sides. It seems that every game Mahomes is getting the opponents defense to go early, so once again I got a bit curious as to what the numbers looked like.

We will start with offside penalties. In total PMII forced the D to jump offside 21 times over the course of the season (these numbers included postseason games). The next closest team was the Bengals with a measly 13. So getting the opponent to jump offside is very impressive, but I think the most impressive is that 9 of those 21 penalties were declined. That means when Patrick Mahomes was given a free play, he was able to take advantage of that free play 43% of the time. The 2nd place team (Bengals) only had 3 declined offside penalties. Not only is he the best to get the other team to jump offside, but he is also elite at making the most of those free plays. When you add in the 4 encroachment penalties and the 9 neutral zone infractions to the offside penalties it gives Mahomes 34 times that he was able to make the opponents jump. That is good enough to put the Chiefs at the top of the league and the next closest team is the Redskins with 20 (7 offside, 0 encroachment, 13 NZI). Last year the Chiefs had 23 of the combined penalties.

Seriously, is there anything that he isn't elite at? I knew he was good at getting the other team to jump, but I didn't realize how much he dominated everyone else.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:17 PM   #16
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Then post the data, so we don’t have to debate it. I’m persuadable. “Former players have said” isn’t persuasion tho.


In 2014 for example the top QB drawing teams offsides was the sly Ryan Tannehill. 2nd was Robert Griffin. Maybe they used to be the masters?
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/p...287397581.html
It's a combination of statistical and anecdotal evidence, both of which are valid.

When literally everybody that watches a Chiefs game, including guys like Trent Green and Tony Romo, say "Patrick Mahomes has an amazing hard count" it's pretty safe to assume he's good at it.

You're just trying to be difficult. Good job.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:19 PM   #17
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:19 PM   #18
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The guy is so much more than an elite arm.

Football is his craft.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:21 PM   #19
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Originally Posted by Hammock Parties View Post
The guy is so much more than an elite arm.

Football is his craft.
I said it earlier in the season - he has the physical tools of a Favre or Rodgers. But the reason why I hated those comparisons is because it doesn't STOP there.

He also has the mental acumen, attention to detail, and work ethic of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

He has the makings of something we really haven't seen before to this degree.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:21 PM   #20
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Definitely plays a part, but he's executing it very well. The Colts defense had been very disciplined and he made them look sloppy as hell.
Reid must have spotted a tendency. Because it was said that they worked on that hard count all week knowing it would throw indy completely off. But yeah, mahomes' hard count has been terrific all year and another great advantage to playing at home.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:28 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
I said it earlier in the season - he has the physical tools of a Favre or Rodgers. But the reason why I hated those comparisons is because it doesn't STOP there.

He also has the mental acumen, attention to detail, and work ethic of Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

He has the makings of something we really haven't seen before to this degree.
That's immediately what I thought after the Steelers game.

It was a Manning-like performance.

I don't remember a single play he made OUTSIDE the pocket in that game, except for that one ridiculous throw he made rolling to his left.

He diced a team up with his feet planted on the ground the whole afternoon.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:30 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Hammock Parties View Post
That's immediately what I thought after the Steelers game.

It was a Manning-like performance.

I don't remember a single play he made OUTSIDE the pocket in that game, except for that one ridiculous throw he made rolling to his left.

He diced a team up with his feet planted on the ground the whole afternoon.
I loved hearing Colinsworth and Michaels talking about it during the Colts game. They were laughing at the people that said "all you need to do is keep him in the pocket".
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:42 PM   #23
dlphg9 dlphg9 is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
The DL is jumping because they’re desperate to stop us, and desperate for a pass rush since our WR cannot be covered. Esp with Pats arm reaching every spot on the field.


It’s them being jumpy moreso than his voice.
I could see that, but the highest scoring offense of all time, 2013 Denver Broncos, had only 19 of those penalties and thats because of 13 neutral zone infractions. I would say NZI would be least effected by the hard count.

Ive heard several times on TV that Aaron Rodgers is one of the best at getting teams to jump offside. In 2011 the Packers scored the 4th most points ever. That year Rodgers made the opponents jump offside 13 times, encroachment 5 times, and NZI 11 times. The 2015 Green Bay Packers who were ranked 15th in the league that year in ppg, so in no way was that a dominant offense. That year Rodgers got the D to jump offside 21 times, 7 NZI, and 1 encroachment.

So while I do think the D wanting to have as much of as advantage to stop the offense has something to do with it, but you cant discount the QBs hard count making them jump.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:43 PM   #24
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Then post the data, so we don’t have to debate it. I’m persuadable. “Former players have said” isn’t persuasion tho.

Nobody needs to prove shit to you, dumbass. You're a contrarian dipshit who appears to do nothing all day other than come on here and spit out the opposite of what the majority believes. It's as if you're completely sports-reeruned.

I'm sure you post on here all day because nobody wants to hang out with you in person. Guessing you're a blast to watch Chiefs/Royals/KU games with.

Hope you don't neg me again for this.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:34 PM   #25
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So getting the opponent to jump offside is very impressive, but I think the most impressive is that 9 of those 21 penalties were declined. That means when Patrick Mahomes was given a free play, he was able to take advantage of that free play 43% of the time.

It might be even better than that. On how many of those 21 plays did the refs blow the whistle and stop the play? You have to take those out of the denominator.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:37 PM   #26
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you mean he shouldn't be like Cam and yell out a prolonged "Reeeaddyyyyyyyyyyy....set hut"

each and every time?
Cam Newton is such an overrated pos.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:40 PM   #27
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Mahomes wants to score. He'd score 100 if Reid would let him. Alex Smith didn't care if the team punted the ball because it was the safe thing to do. Mahomes keeps drives going and extends plays downfield. That is ultimately the biggest difference between this offense and last season's.

Reid has this problem of taking the foot off the gas when he gets up a couple/few scores, and I thought he did that much of the 2nd half vs Colts.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:41 PM   #28
dlphg9 dlphg9 is offline
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It might be even better than that. On how many of those 21 plays did the refs blow the whistle and stop the play? You have to take those out of the denominator.
I know it has happened on multiple occasions.
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Old 12-17-2020, 05:23 PM   #29
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Still something I don't hear enough about from the media. Dude is a ****ing God at this.
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Old 12-17-2020, 05:25 PM   #30
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I wonder if someone out there has a "offsides per snap" metric for the NFL. I'd be curious to know if Mahomes or Rodgers are on a faster pace this year.

(Comparing to past years wouldn't work well since the empty stadiums on the road have made it FAR more effective this year.)
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