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Old 09-12-2019, 09:14 AM  
InChiefsHell InChiefsHell is offline
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Trump and Vaping ban...might just make me rethink this guy...

OK, so Trump has bought in to the hysteria and hype surrounding the recent "plague" of illness and death that is connected to ecigs.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/politic...arettes-vaping

No evidence, just hysteria and an easy win for Dems and Repubs alike. Makes me sick. Get the information, do the studies, find the truth!

Most of these cases involve minors who are vaping illegally obtained juices or modified devices that contain THC ffs. I get my stuff locally from a company that makes the juice themselves in a Level 4 lab (highest you can have regarding sterility).

Then they say "the flavored juices are being marketed to children". Bullshit. I vape a mint flavor and my wife vapes a Raspberry Champagne. We ain't kids.

I've been vaping since 2012 and have noticed vast improvement to my health. I don't get sick hardly at all. I don't smell like an ashtray, my car doesn't smell like an ashtray.

Pisses me off. If Trump does this he can kiss my ass...
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:38 PM   #76
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This is a remarkably stupid idea. Even for Trump.



Upon Edit: And if you agree with it you're stupid, ignorant, or both.
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:42 PM   #77
BryanBusby BryanBusby is offline
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I would be rather careful about correlating vaping as a 'safer alternative' to smoking cigarettes. I have some real doubts over the accuracy of that claim.

Although I think banning them is stupid. People are killing themselves over it and it has no actual impact on my family. Seems like the better alternative would be to regulate the products, punt the non-regulated ones and come down very severely on retailers and individuals that are providing those stupid things to kids.
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:58 PM   #78
lcarus lcarus is offline
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Originally Posted by BryanBusby View Post
I would be rather careful about correlating vaping as a 'safer alternative' to smoking cigarettes. I have some real doubts over the accuracy of that claim.

Although I think banning them is stupid. People are killing themselves over it and it has no actual impact on my family. Seems like the better alternative would be to regulate the products, punt the non-regulated ones and come down very severely on retailers and individuals that are providing those stupid things to kids.
Though there is still further research to be done about the long-term effects of vaping, the CDC claims its not as harmful as cigarette smoke.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_in...ttes/index.htm

That aside, based on my own anecdotal evidence I personally feel strongly that it is incredibly safer than cigarette smoke. And it saves smokers a lot of money on top of that.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:06 PM   #79
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And it saves smokers a lot of money on top of that.
I think that's probably pretty relative. If you buy the store brands and you sit for hours on end vaping (which many of these kids do...unfortunately my son often does while online screwing around) you'll burn through a pretty penny keeping that habit going. Chain cigarette smokers probably outspend some of these kids, but your average smoker, not so much from what I've noticed.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:06 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by lcarus View Post
Though there is still further research to be done about the long-term effects of vaping, the CDC claims its not as harmful as cigarette smoke.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_in...ttes/index.htm

That aside, based on my own anecdotal evidence I personally feel strongly that it is incredibly safer than cigarette smoke. And it saves smokers a lot of money on top of that.
That link leads to basically the conclusion I've drawn. It's a mixed bag. I've got some concern about the chemicals in vape stuff when it becomes a 'vapor'
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:22 PM   #81
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I hope you realize, the benefits you describe are a result of quitting smoking, not vaping. Maybe vaping helped you quit smoking, that could be a benefit to vaping. Now quit vaping and you may be even healthier?
Well no shit Captain Obvious.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:23 PM   #82
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Why the hell would I listen to a cog in the machine whose income depends on the machine running? We already know that you're going to ape whatever the system wants you to ape. It would be one thing if you had a reputation as an independent thinker, but your record is endorsing whatever the big money government machine is pushing.
It's easy to throw around bromides like that as though they actually mean something, but the truth is that you have no idea how to read scientific literature of any type, and thus, are completely ignorant. The only one aping copy pastas are the people in here that don't understand the science behind epidemiology, public health, pharmacology, and toxicology, and resort to parroting Facebook posts from stay-at-home moms and naturopathic quacks.

And none of my income relies on the machine running. We're regulated by six different entities. It's incredibly expensive and time-consuming to be compliant, but it's also proven to be safe and effective.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:34 PM   #83
lcarus lcarus is offline
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That link leads to basically the conclusion I've drawn. It's a mixed bag. I've got some concern about the chemicals in vape stuff when it becomes a 'vapor'
Of course. They could find out one day that it's worse for you than being a light to moderate cigarette smoker. I highly doubt that will be the case, but it's possible. Considering big tobacco has been doing everything they can to demonize vaping the past decade+, I don't see it happening.

But for a heavy smoker who smokes 2-3 packs a day, which we already know will kill you or cause major health problems, I would try vaping if it's the only thing that will help you quit. I know my father, who now vapes daily, doesn't cough like a maniac anymore and overall feels and looks so much better. And he's been doing it for about 6 years. And myself - when I quit smoking and vaped as an alternative - I felt so much better. I personally didn't care for the vaping and eventually quit nicotine altogether using nicotine patches.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:35 PM   #84
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I don't understand the hatred for vaping. I guess because I always viewed it as a tool to help smokers quit cigarettes. Way before it became a fad or whatever. E-cigs straight up saved my dads life. Dude was murdering himself with cigarettes and I don't think anything would have got him to stop except vaping.
I absolutely think there is a place for vaping as a tool to quit smoking. I think regulated products with nicotine doing etc...makes complete sense.

The simply recreational use of it and kids doing it is more what I am bitching about. My son and most of his friends vape or have vaped.

The unregualted side of it should be concerning to everyone. And I don't actually believe it should be banned but the FDA or someone body needs to be involved in making sure people aren't huffing nasty chemicals which I am fairly confident they are.

I know a guy who carries a vape bag around with him and sucks on vape that looks like it could jump start your car. He basically walks around billowing smoke like an old steam engine. Most ridiculous shit I have ever seen. I get it it, its a personal preference or whatever but man it looks ridiculous at times.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:35 PM   #85
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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One of my very best friends is the founder of a biotech company. I have several biotech executives as clients who are also friends. My doctors are private and the best money can buy. One of them is currently cut back half her hours to help develop safer vaccines. The problem with developing a safer vaccine is getting approval with the incestuous relationship between big pharma and the FDA and the protection vaccines get from the vaccine courts. There is no reason to develop a safer vaccine. It's just a waste of money in their eyes. It's the only industry in the country that gets this type of protection because there is nothing to see here, right?

Look man I am not claiming to be a doctor or a scientist who has done all the research or know more than other posters. My only suggestion is if people have the time, money and the inclination to do research on top private MD's to do so. If you are lucky enough to find one still accepting clients get one. You will most likely get very different information than what Fishface cuts and pastes on this BB or what their run of the mill following FDA, AMA protocol physician is telling them. If you are fortunate enough you may even begin to gain access to a network of truly remarkable medical professionals. That is all.
There is no need to develop a safer vaccine because vaccines are literally the safest medication we have. Safer than aspirin, Tylenol, and first-gen antihistamines. Fewer side damaging side effects than OTC PPIs or H2RAs for acid suppression.

A population based review of 13-million people found that death rates were lower in the 60 days immediately after vaccine administration than in the general age-matched population. If vaccines were dangerous, there would be a statistically-significant increase in death, not a decline in death among that cohort.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:39 PM   #86
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Of course. They could find out one day that it's worse for you than being a light to moderate cigarette smoker. I highly doubt that will be the case, but it's possible. Considering big tobacco has been doing everything they can to demonize vaping the past decade+, I don't see it happening.

But for a heavy smoker who smokes 2-3 packs a day, which we already know will kill you or cause major health problems, I would try vaping if it's the only thing that will help you quit. I know my father, who now vapes daily, doesn't cough like a maniac anymore and overall feels and looks so much better. And he's been doing it for about 6 years. And myself - when I quit smoking and vaped as an alternative - I felt so much better. I personally didn't care for the vaping and eventually quit nicotine altogether using nicotine patches.
I smoked for over ten years and quit hard turkey almost 5 years ago. I was miserable as shit for about a month.

I'm okay with it if it's a tool used for smoking cessation, but I think a lot of people say that's the goal and never stop vaping.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:52 PM   #87
lcarus lcarus is offline
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I absolutely think there is a place for vaping as a tool to quit smoking. I think regulated products with nicotine doing etc...makes complete sense.

The simply recreational use of it and kids doing it is more what I am bitching about. My son and most of his friends vape or have vaped.

The unregualted side of it should be concerning to everyone. And I don't actually believe it should be banned but the FDA or someone body needs to be involved in making sure people aren't huffing nasty chemicals which I am fairly confident they are.

I know a guy who carries a vape bag around with him and sucks on vape that looks like it could jump start your car. He basically walks around billowing smoke like an old steam engine. Most ridiculous shit I have ever seen. I get it it, its a personal preference or whatever but man it looks ridiculous at times.
Yeah vaping as a fad is dumb. But if they want to do it and understand the potential health hazards I don't personally care and neither should anyone else. It's already federally illegal for minors. Up to the parents to uphold that of course.

There's the 2015 study by Public Health England which states vaping is 95% less harmful than cigarette smoking. https://assets.publishing.service.go...land_FINAL.pdf

I'm sure there's studies that try to contradict this study by saying "yeah but they can't know the long-term effects!" but that's true with absolutely anything.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:22 PM   #88
BleedingRed BleedingRed is offline
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Anyone who doesn’t see this as big tobacco making their play is ignorant of vaping. Vaping has been in the commercial market since 1979 (in China)

It’s been in markets in US by large numbers since 2003, and widely adopted by many smokers by 2009. People don’t start magically dying from Vaping nicotine.

I vape less and less as the years have gone on.

I used to be a pack a day guy, I can honestly say now cigarette disgust me because of taste.

I haven’t bought a pack in over 5 years.....

And better yet I’ve lowered my nicotine level all the way to 3%, with hopes of going to 0% and quitting.

But I can tell you from first hand experience it has helped my health tremendously
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:26 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by BleedingRed View Post
Anyone who doesn’t see this as big tobacco making their play is ignorant of vaping. Vaping has been in the commercial market since 1979 (in China)

It’s been in markets in US by large numbers since 2003, and widely adopted by many smokers by 2009. People don’t start magically dying from Vaping nicotine.

I vape less and less as the years have gone on.

I used to be a pack a day guy, I can honestly say now cigarette disgust me because of taste.

I haven’t bought a pack in over 5 years.....

And better yet I’ve lowered my nicotine level all the way to 3%, with hopes of going to 0% and quitting.

But I can tell you from first hand experience it has helped my health tremendously
What does a pack a day guy start at?
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:55 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by lcarus View Post
Of course. They could find out one day that it's worse for you than being a light to moderate cigarette smoker. I highly doubt that will be the case, but it's possible. Considering big tobacco has been doing everything they can to demonize vaping the past decade+, I don't see it happening.

But for a heavy smoker who smokes 2-3 packs a day, which we already know will kill you or cause major health problems, I would try vaping if it's the only thing that will help you quit. I know my father, who now vapes daily, doesn't cough like a maniac anymore and overall feels and looks so much better. And he's been doing it for about 6 years. And myself - when I quit smoking and vaped as an alternative - I felt so much better. I personally didn't care for the vaping and eventually quit nicotine altogether using nicotine patches.
That's me. 2-3 pack a day smoker that couldn't even get a nights sleep because I literally would wake myself up coughing and gagging. Then of course, since I'm up anyways, might as well have a smoke!

Like most, I tried a million times to quit, but to no avail. Black Friday, 3 years ago, said heck with it lets try this vaping crap. Worst that can happen is it don't work. I honestly smoked a cig, put it out, walked into the vape shop and told the girl to set me up with whatever I needed. Haven't smoked a single cig since. And from time to time, I still expect myself to gag and cough getting out of bed, and don't!! I can still remember what it was like to be a smoker.

Trump is screwing the pooch here. I've always had an uneasy feeling about the guy when it comes to nanny state stuff and spending. He's WAAAAAAY to liberal for my taste in these departments!! I won't say that this would cost him my vote, the Democrats will see to that. I just wish somebody that has influence in his life would send him a friendly memo like.....

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Donny, love ya bud!! But remember, you are trying to pretend to be a conservative. Maybe we should back off of the EO's and big government influences and what-not. Let Americans enjoy their freedoms and what-not. Personal responsibility is still a thing on the right side of the spectrum
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