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11-17-2017, 11:49 PM | #46 |
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Jeff Luhnow picks:
2012 | Carlos Correa (2nd overall. He inherited Springer). 2013 | Mark Appel (taken instead of Kris Bryant. Ouch) 2014 | Brady Aiken (didn't even sign with team, passing over Trea Turner, Aaron Nola, Michael Conforto, Bradley Zimmer, Matt Chapman, Luke Weaver, top MiLB pitching prospect Michael Kopech). 2015 | Alex Bregman (good pick! His second!); Kyle Tucker (also looks good) 2016 | Forest Whitley (looks good, too, though TINSTAAPP) My point: Baseball drafts are hard. Being a baseball GM is hard. Even really good ones like Jeff Luhnow and Dayton Moore are not going to hit on every first round-pick. If you can hit at 50 percent or better, you're doing a really good job.
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11-17-2017, 11:57 PM | #47 |
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Oh, come on. That’s a terrible argument.
Being an NBA GM is hard. Look at Sam Hinke. Phil Jackson. Even Hall of Famer Jerry West. Being an NFL GM is hard. Look at John Dorsey, who so many loved. Look at Combo Guys like Parcells in NY or Shanahan in Washington or guys like Mike Holmgem that served double duty or Jimmy Johnson. Belichick is the greatest of all time and he’s made several mistakes. The bottom line is that these other men have been held accountable. How many times has Dombrowski moved on? Theo? Moore isn’t in the same category. His recent moves should be questioned. Today. |
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11-18-2017, 12:00 AM | #48 | |
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But when you post about baseball, "I'm a football fan" comes screaming out of your keyboard. It's clear in the way you talk about first-round picks. The Royals farm system is not in good shape. It does have several promising young guys from the past two drafts. It suffered an abortion of a draft from three drafts ago. And it emptied out its high-end talent from the two drafts before that to make a championship push. It also is harder to keep a farm system stocked in this era, with the hard-slotting, when you're winning (and when you roll craps in things like the competitive balance draft three years in a row like the Royals did, a rule MLB has now adjusted so you rotate between Rounds A and B every other year). Saying Dayton Moore hasn't gotten a draft pick right in the past decade is obtuse, and frankly, really uninformed. I've provided a lot of context for you in this thread. I've provided that context for you in the past. I'll probably provide it again in the future, because I'll keep trying to help you see reason on it. Moore's opportunity to get "high-level prospects" for his stars was immediately following the WS win, when they all had two years of control. Or after last season, when the return would have been lesser/lower. Royals fans have bitched for years about the Royals being cheap and passing up opportunities to spend money and compete. What kind of GM in his right mind would break up a defending WS champ because "We have to think about the future now!" It's lunacy. And at the trade deadline - when the Royals, BTW, were holding the top WC spot and within spitting distance of the division - they weren't getting high level prospects at that point. They would have gotten guys with more questions or less upside than the players in the Royals farm system you hate so much.
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11-18-2017, 12:05 AM | #49 | |
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Dayton Moore isn't perfect. He has certainly made mistakes, and the dropped balls in the 15, 11, and 10 drafts particularly have hurt the Royals. But every other one? You look at those whole drafts, and you find good things in all of them. Heck, even in the 10 and 11 drafts, you find some good things around them.
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11-18-2017, 12:27 AM | #51 | |
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I think Epstein and Luhnow are for sure better than Moore. Hands down. Friedman, too. Neal Huntington in Pittsburgh is really good but less accomplished. Rizzo is good in Washington. Cashman has had an awful lot of advantages but has done well with them. Dombrowski is probably a Hall of Fame GM (but still wasted a decade of Golden Opportunity in Detroit). What Moore is, is a very good GM. One of the better ones in baseball and certainly in the top half of baseball. What I think you miss is how much work was done to build up the international scouting under Moore. Guys like Perez and Herrera and Ventura wouldn't have been possible to develop without that. I think talking about Zack Greinke like Moore inherited a Porsche and he just cashed in it is a narrow view of that. Remember that Greinke talked about quitting baseball and starting a lawn mowing company within the first year after Moore took the job. His staff worked Zack through that, got him to unlock his talent... and then successfully traded him, which is easier said than done. Even when you have an ace to trade, nailing the return takes skill and good scouting. Getting Cain and Escobar and Odorizzi from the Brewers was more of a finishing touch than the thing it was all built around. The franchise changed with Hosmer and Moustakas and Perez and with Holland and Herrera and Davis and Shielfs and Ventura, too. The Myers trade and the Cueto trade and the Zobrist trade were great and timely deals. He deserves credit for those. He stuck with Buddy Bell because the team was awful, and it didn't matter. He hired Hillman because he had a successful background, solid credentials, and some upside. It didn't work, but he moved on from it and made it work. I understand skepticism. Acting like he's awful I don't understand.
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11-18-2017, 01:49 AM | #53 |
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11-18-2017, 08:13 AM | #54 |
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Dane, serious question.
Why did you feel the need to shit all over this thread minutes after it was posted? It seems like you've had some kind of vendetta against Moore and the Royals ever since they traded for Cueto and Zobrist and went on to win the WS.
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11-18-2017, 08:20 AM | #55 | |
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This thread sucks. Total shit show. |
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11-18-2017, 08:28 AM | #56 |
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Dane has a personal vendetta against those calling Dayton Moore God.
However, I haven't seen anyone call Dayton Moore God after the past two off seasons. He's definitely got chinks in his armor. But putting together those 14/15 World Series teams was a thing of beauty. Back-to-back appearances without a true SuperStar was something I thought I'd never see from a Royals team. It was very special to many of us and more special than anything the Chiefs could ever do, as my love of baseball is far greater than my like of football. For those who feel that love for football, can you imagine the God-like status you'd give a Chiefs GM for back-to-back Super Bowl appearances, including a championship? I'm not sure many would care what happened in the following 5-10 seasons if the Chiefs could win a Super Bowl. And realistically, we all knew this day was coming. When you build a championship smaller market team, players leave. Sadly in the past two years, between injuries and player regression, this similar roster could not repeat it's success. That's not uncommon in baseball and not sure how that falls on Moore? It's a similar Heaven/Hell or Purgatory question for all of us. I'll take the Heaven/Hell of the Royals any ****ing day. It was a great lifetime moment.
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11-18-2017, 08:41 AM | #57 |
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Trading Grienke for Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi = Lucky GM
Kyle Zimmer's injury history = Shitty GM Yordano Ventura's untimely death = Shitty GM
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11-18-2017, 08:47 AM | #58 |
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its ridiculous.
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11-18-2017, 09:02 AM | #59 | |
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Appel over Bryant has always stung, but less so now. If only he would have signed with the Pirates a year earlier |
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11-18-2017, 09:03 AM | #60 |
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