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-   -   Chiefs How much does fixing the front seven fix the secondary? (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320893)

ntexascardfan 01-25-2019 02:38 PM

How much does fixing the front seven fix the secondary?
 
Thinking to our off-season plans and the draft this is the question I keep asking myself.

The conventional wisdom I've seen with most of our off-season moves + mock drafts has been to address the secondary.

My gut tells me if we solve the riddle of the run game and find a true ILB that isn't Ragland that our pass defense will improve by virtue of not being put into so many tough down/distance situations where they are having to do guesswork at the snap.

I think what I learned this year is figure out how to get the ball in Mahomes hands as much as possible. If that means we overcorrect and throw all our resources into fixing the run game, then so be it.

I'll take my chances with Pat winning a game where he gets to touch the ball on a dozen possessions v. the games where teams bleed us for 7 minutes a drive and he gets to touch the ball on 5 drives.

Mecca 01-25-2019 02:41 PM

The secondary just needs talent, they're so grabby because they aren't skilled.

Outside of like Fuller that secondary is a pile of complete meh.

In58men 01-25-2019 02:42 PM

We’ll be fine

dlphg9 01-25-2019 02:43 PM

New scheme/better players is the only thing thatll fix the secondary. We led the league in sacks and the secondary couldn't cover a guy for more than a sec. The front 7 isnt the problem with our passing D.

TEX 01-25-2019 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlphg9 (Post 14072531)
New scheme/better players is the only thing thatll fix the secondary. We led the league in sacks and the secondary couldn't cover a guy for more than a sec. The front 7 isnt the problem with our passing D.

Exactly.

Chris Meck 01-25-2019 02:46 PM

this particular secondary had no idea what their responsibilities were half of the time.

Either they're all developmentally challenged, or the coaching did a shit job of preparing them.

chiefzilla1501 01-25-2019 02:47 PM

It's a fair question but spagnuolos history tells you his priority will be fixing the secondary by fixing the secondary. It will be his #1 priority. So the question might be... How much does our new emphasis on the secondary help our front 7?

tmax63 01-25-2019 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 14072544)
this particular secondary had no idea what their responsibilities were half of the time.

Either they're all developmentally challenged, or the coaching did a shit job of preparing them.

This. The defense was so fubar'd this year it's hard to tell what was coaching and what was player. The sacks are easily explained because the other team was behind almost always and all the DL did was line up and rush. They didn't pay attention to the run.

Mike in SW-MO 01-25-2019 03:42 PM

When the defense can't get off the field multiple times on 3rd & 10, I stop worrying about our run defense.

Then when they line up in an obvious passing down & we can't stop the run for less than 10, that's coaching. Gotta be able to find the tells.

Chris Meck 01-25-2019 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 14072523)
The secondary just needs talent, they're so grabby because they aren't skilled.

Outside of like Fuller that secondary is a pile of complete meh.

I like Ward, actually.

ChiefBlueCFC 01-25-2019 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 14072760)
I like Ward, actually.

Would've liked to see a full season out of Watts as well. Think they have decent players in Ward and Watts.

OKchiefs 01-25-2019 04:10 PM

John Dorsey and Brett Veach both collectively refused to use high draft picks on the secondary outside of Peters and Russell. It's no surprise that our secondary was complete shit.

ChiefoftheKeyboard 01-25-2019 04:18 PM

Watts will be a good role player. Another year of experience for Ward will help, especially since he seemed to make some pretty big strides from the SEA game to the AFCCG. They’ll definitely need to add another player though. Nasir Adderley in the first round and a second round CB would make huge strides. Fuller will be great. It was his first year on the outside and he was playing for a reeruned DC. There were so many communication breakdowns bc Sutton’s scheme is complicated. Fixing the blown coverages due to communication issues alone will help a ton.

ChiefoftheKeyboard 01-25-2019 04:20 PM

The chiefs also LOVE small school players which can sometimes be frustrating. But if that continues then I’d imagine they’ll look at Donnie Lewis Jr in the draft. Especially if they want to spend their first rounder on another safety.

jjchieffan 01-25-2019 04:28 PM

Actually, our secondary doesn't really need as much help as some think........ provided that our young guys continue to develop as planned. Watts, Lucas, Ward, and Smith need to step up and fill those positions. Fuller is good, Nelson is likely gone. Pick up a solid corner and safety either in FA or the draft, and that should do it. If Berry somehow returns to form, even better.

CoMoChief 01-25-2019 04:34 PM

Anytime you can pressure the QB, it helps the secondary.

Having that said, Chiefs need about 2 CB's and at least 1 safety.

Chiefs need help at every layer on D. Which is good for draft, they can essentially draft for BDPA w/ their first 4 picks..or at least they SHOULD.

ChiefoftheKeyboard 01-25-2019 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief (Post 14072879)
Anytime you can pressure the QB, it helps the secondary.

Having that said, Chiefs need about 2 CB's and at least 1 safety.

Chiefs need help at every layer on D. Which is good for draft, they can essentially draft for BDPA w/ their first 4 picks..or at least they SHOULD.

I agree, but only one of the CB’s needs to be a starter. If Ward continues the same development he’s shown they could get away with another developmental guy as the second.

Angry fan 01-25-2019 05:52 PM

The last game got me thinking. See how the Patriots had shutdown corners so they could run cover zero? Imagine doing that to the Patriots and Tom Brady. Brady would have to get rid of it faster. He probably has the checkdown route for it. But the Chiefs hold em to a small gain or an incompletion! What the chiefs need is a shutdown corner. And then 3 more competent corners who can shutdown for the first few seconds.

What corners are on the market this off season or available for trade? That's what the Chiefs need.

JakeF 01-25-2019 06:30 PM

The secondary needs more help than the front. When Sutton moved Houston from playing standup linebacker to DE our Defense improved. When Sutton started keeping Nnadi in there as much as possible for run defense our defense improved a little more.

If we move to a 4-3 I think our front-7 is already decent.

I think we should tag/trade Dee Ford. He doesn't really fit the 4-3 scheme and we can't afford to have another sketchy contract like Houston and Berry implode on us.

I think Houston can be a very good DE if he's healthy. I think putting Jones at DE will allow him to attack and use his athletic ability and no longer have him be a liability against the run in the middle.

Jones, Williams, Nnadi, Houston
Niemann, Hitchen, O'Daniel

Nnadi and Williams in there for max protection for our linebackers. Hitchen will be much better with protection. O'Daniel is good in space. The Niemann spot should probably be upgraded.

It will be interesting to see whether our secondary players improve with different coaching.

Wallcrawler 01-25-2019 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjchieffan (Post 14072859)
. If Berry somehow returns to form, even better.

We have a better shot at getting Landon Collins to sign through the allure of his favorite DC, coupled with the Mahomes factor than Eric Berry contributing anything meanjngful to the team.

Need to just rip off the bandaid. Injury settlement and move on.

baitism 01-25-2019 08:03 PM

The Panthers went to the SB back in the Delhomme days with a bad ass front seven and a bunch of JAGs in the secondary. So, it does matter.

cdcox 01-25-2019 11:46 PM

It is outdated to talk about the front 7 vs the secondary. The front 5 excells against the pass and is adequate against the run. The ILB and secondary are the issue.

threebag 01-26-2019 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 14072523)
The secondary just needs talent, they're so grabby because they aren't skilled.

Outside of like Fuller that secondary is a pile of complete meh.

Watts and Ward are going to be good

Mecca 01-26-2019 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baitism (Post 14073418)
The Panthers went to the SB back in the Delhomme days with a bad ass front seven and a bunch of JAGs in the secondary. So, it does matter.

That was a different era of football, those Jags were allowed to touch receivers.


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