that was good. I didn't think bob was gay I thought that he was scaring pete into doing stuff.

this show bores the hell out of me. All the characters are too smug for my liking.

I'll stick to Breaking Bad and Boardwalk Empire.

Who does Sally walk in on next season?

Last year, Roger getting a beej.

This year, Dad boning the neighbor.

Kid can't catch a break when in the city.

Two words, butthole pleasures.

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Was that the finale?

Two more episodes left

Ok.

Did Bob ever say he was gay? I watched the episode twice, and fell asleep both times, but I only remember him rubbing his leg on Pete and I think he's just up to something shady and had to uncomfort Pete into keeping the babysitter.

Watching Girls season 2, and noticed a couple of harrowing parallels.

When that guy Marnie is dating takes her back to his house for sex, then leaves her in 'his greatest work' for ostensibly hours on end, power trip like Don ordering Sylvia around.

When he then effs her from behind asking her to focus on the doll and describe her feelings, distinctly like ordering Peggy to summarize margarine before a creative meeting, impromptu and on the spot.

Girls is such a brilliant show. Doesn't get nearly enough credit.

I get how people rapped it for tokening Donald Glover, but I loved that storyline. She was so mature and sophisticated for dating a black guy who calls himself republican. Then her GF suggests that there's more out there than a guy who won't read her writings quicker [writings about getting over her past BF BTW], and she invents all these controversies to try to start a fight and Donald's character stays calm and reasonable. She switches to putting words in his mouth and huffs off anyway full of righteous indignation. Love that she [Lena] sees that kind of neurosis in chicks and love her even more for putting herself in the role of playing the worst of it.

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Absolutely. I also loved how that scene specifically, but that whole storyline really, played with the real life criticism the show received for it's white washed cast AND then equally for the tokening of Glover.

She's a smart one that Lena. I can't wait to see what she has up her sleeve.

I can't at all figure out how next week will be the season finale.

There's been nothing that's even inched towards a resolution this year. I feel like the season should only be halfway done at this point.

And I don't care if you call me a filthy homo, I like Bob Benson dammit. He's a bizarre queen, but he's a likeable dude that will probably cut someone's throat for you if you're on his good side.

Lusty manservant or no, Bob's good people. He's also the most 'jump the shark' kind of character the show's ever seen. He's outwardly soap operaish and that's a sign that Mad Men probably has run its course. The fact that the pace has seemingly fallen off the face of the earth suggests the same.

There won't be a bow put on this show and I think that's all there is to it. This season just hasn't come far enough.

Loved the scene of her last ditch effort to de-homo her ex-BF

Attempt at a passionate kiss

"When did you eat jerky?"

"That's not any of your concern."

Like The Soprano's, this series has lasted one season too long. As I mentioned earlier, too many story lines have been extended because Weiner has the time to do so. If this was the final season, each episode would be much tighter.

Personally, I liked the parallels between Don Draper/Dick Whitman and Bob Benson/?. Bob, however, seems hell bent on power and has a little more determination and "evil" behind his rise to power, whereas Don was always surprised that he was able to ascend in the business world so quickly.

Once again, the direction of the program appears to be setting up a death. Ken wasn't killed but Pete was seen cleaning a gun. Don & Megan ran into Ted & Peggy at Rosemary's Baby and later re-enacted that disturbing scene (for the time, especially), with Don as Satan's baby. There just seems to be an ominous air about the direction of the series this season.

The transformation of Sally is nearly complete. She didn't like her mother and adored her father, until she saw who her father really was in last week's episode ("Monster!"). She's finally given in and become like her mother, sharing a cigarette while insulting Don ("He's never given me anything").

Finally, Don in the fetal position to start the show and Don in a the fetal position to end the show. The two women he most respected (Peggy & Sally) now seem him for who he really is: A shallow, empty, shell of a man. Considering that Weiner isn't prone to redemption, I can only assume that Don's downward spiral will continue until the final episode.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I think Don kills himself, or at least attempts to kill himself, in the series finale. Watching Don fall from the top of a building in the opening credits for the past six years, IMO, isn't a coincidence.

With all due respect, do you guys mind focusing on this particular program? Thanks.

Great stuff, Dane.

So many plates spinning, but its missing something the Sopranos had that kept me wanting more each week, but with Mad Men its becoming more and more forgettable

I've never read the credits that way. The credits end with the 'falling man' sitting comfortably in a posture of privilege. It seems to suggest that, in America of that time, no matter how much a person like Don [whether you read that as white, ambitious, dashing, or winningly creative] ****s up or steps into chaos, he'll land right side up with a tumbler of brown liquor in one hand and a cigarette in the other.

And I think Weiner puts those scenes with Pete and his gun in there for no other reason than he hates the maxim about 'if you show a gun it must go off.'

That episode would have been way more awesome if they just offed Ken like that.

For real thought he was dead for a hot minute.

DOES MY GARAGE SAY DEAD KEN STORAGE?

Cool opinion, bro.

I wondered if that scene existed in Weiner's mind at any point prior to Cheney's whoopsie.

Before the past few weeks, I felt the same exact view of the opening titles. But with Don's rapid descent into Dante's Inferno, I began looking at the titles differently. I could be projecting but I thought I'd throw it out there.

That said, Weiner's a fan of ambiguity so it's possible that the series finale is as ambiguous as the series ender to The Soprano's.

I can understand becoming disillusioned with Mad Men because the builds are slow (yet the payoffs are HUGE) but I don't find the program forgettable in the least.

It's not forgettable. It's just that this season is boring.

YOU'RE boring!!!

Good finale. Almost felt like more happened in the last 10 minutes than the last 10 weeks.

Ted's transformation into Don was complete and he saw how and where that path leads to and came to a realization that took Don years to come to.

Don also grew in knowing that he can't run away from his problems- he has to deal with them head on - and for some reason his childhood in the bordello he just can't shake and blames for all of his current problems it seems.

I'm just sad no one actually died this last season - unless you count the FAF Don Draper and the rebirth of Dick Whitman aka Don Draper

why would Cheney have to be it? I have a buddy who got shot just like that as well.

Yeah, that was a great finale.

I was really hoping Don would head off to California, but really Meghan's right - they're not going to work. Don can't have a career-oriented, ambitious wife.

I presume everyone took that final scene as the same "**** you" to Sally that I took it as. The sideways look pretty much said "sweetheart, you have no concept of a broken home; get your shit together".

I do feel like the Hershey meeting was something of a deus ex machina. Nothing really explains the outburst; not the DTs, not the downtrodden look from Ted, not even a bit of sudden clarity. Don still would've swallowed that because he's still a pro in this game. Weiner wanted one more straw to give SCP a reason to send him away for a bit and so he contrived one.

It'll be damn interesting to see how next season starts. The last episode did more to build anticipation than the rest of the season combined.

I thought that both the scene in the conference room with the Hershey guys and the scene at the end where he took the kids to the house felt like he was just dropping all the bullshit and being honest. Trying to do something he hadn't done before.

Weiner doesn't do redemption, though.

Because lets face it - he's right. Would any of us really expect Don to right the ship at this point? He's had so many opportunities and so many potentially life-altering events that he's shrugged off and stayed on the same path through.

Yet I'm supposed to believe that Ted Chaugh going all Eeyore on him is what did it? Don was completely lucid and just blew apart a potentially massive account. Don is still the same Don that went out there and stole Chevy because he's a brilliant ad-man. A lucid Don just doesn't do what he did there.

And the funniest part? Somehow Bert Cooper is still swinging an axe. How the hell can SCP justify giving Don the thumb and letting Cooper continue to wield a hammer?

While your cynicism toward Don normally would be well-placed, I agree with Keg on this. I think Don's reversal was genuine. He's hit rock bottom, and he's trying to begin the climb back up.

Two things key this in: Ted telling Don "I know there's a good man in there," and the preacher in the bar telling Don "The only unpardonable sin is to believe God cannot forgive you.”

I think when Don in that meeting saw his hand shaking and looked at Ted's face, he became Dick Whitman. And when he took the kids to the whorehouse, he wasn't trying to teach Sally a lesson. He was being Dick Whitman: "Kids, this is who, and what, I am."

I think the series could've ended right there: Don confronting and embracing his past, leaving SCP and NY behind; Ted and Pete going to Calif.; Betty in Albany beginning Henry's political career; and especially, Peggy sitting in Don's desk, literally wearing the pants.

As it is, it will be interesting to see where next season picks up in Don's redemption tour. Will he be Dick Whitman? Don was a reconstituted Dick. Perhaps the final season will be Dick as a reconstituted Don. Or will it ultimately prove impossible, and Don/Dick will face a tragic end, unable to resolve the two? (And by tragic, I don't necessarily mean suicidal/dead, but more like sitting alone, old, with NOTHING of his past -- family, career, etc. -- to hold on to.)

I didn't say anything about redemption...

What he did with Hershey's was the last straw that got him fired. That's probably the lesson he'll take from that. And he may have just been burning bridges there. It's hard to tell. I thought he was just letting go and being honest there, though.

We haven't seen the repercussions of showing the kids the cathouse, but I doubt it'll be Sally suddenly just forgiving him for banging the neighbor's wife. Although I did think it was a bigger move with the kids, because he was letting them in on a secret from his past. That's almost a loving thing. Which ain't any Don I've ever seen.

Even if he is changing (and we haven't seen enough to say one way or the other) it doesn't mean anything's going to go his way.

Do we think he's truly gone altogether from SCP?

Duck bringing in a replacement obviously doesn't bode well, but even with his quirks, Don's still a young man by relative standards and was instrumental in the biggest developments SCP ever had. They know the guy has a fastball and they have to know that it's in SCP's interest that he recapture it.

Perhap's Duck showing up and their refusal to give him a return date was really meant to tell the audience that his 'sabbatical' was actually a firing, but I'm not quite convinced of that.

Smart businessmen don't cast out good people if they can attempt to rehabilitate them. Then again, Freddy Rumsen's 'time away' was clearly never intended for him to come back from. With this season so frequently slipping back into the first couple of years of the show, perhaps Don really did just get Rumsen'd. Afterall, it was Sterling that gave Rumsen the 'leave of absence' treatment making it clear that Rumsen wouldn't be welcomed back and that the terminology was a favor for his years of service.

Eh...maybe y'all are right. Perhaps Draper did just get shitcanned.

I didn't view Don's Hershey pitch as redemption of any kind either. There is some honesty there and I do think it was genuine to a degree. But he also got what he wanted. He didn't want Hershey to advertise. He took matters into his own hands, like he's done all season, and did it his way. And just like classic Don Draper, he didn't think he'd get in trouble for it. I don't think for a minute he thought they'd call him out on it. There's hubris all over that scene and even his "sabbatical."

Eh, he was excited about the Hershey meeting. He wanted that business (in my mind Don the businessman wanted that business more than Don the guy wanted them not to advertise). And then he immediately sent Ted to Cali, something we know Don wanted. I really think that was meant as a coming to Jesus moment...I just thought it was ham-fisted.

The Trudy scenes looked really green-screened to me. I'm not sure she and Pete were ever in the same room (not that it matters).

I think Don wanted the challenge of pitching to Hershey. His hubris wanted the shot. And then he won. So he decided to blow it up. Because he could and that's they way he wanted it.

Don's locked into his past. And he's wrestling with every aspect of that past, it seems to me. Including keeping Hershey the same as it ever was. This whole season has been about falling down and looking back. Don's trying to reconcile his past and his present.

At least that's the way I see it. I should watch the episode again, but I really think Don's decision to send Ted to Cali was motivated more by Don's reflection of his own mistakes than anything Ted was doing.

It was, again, Don making all the decisions and doing what he thinks is best. But I do also think that in his own mind, he was being a good guy. I don't think any of it was malicious, just arrogant and self-centered. I also think he never thought for a minute Megan would leave (is she gone for good?).

Don doesn't see the the consequences. He doesn't understand the weight he throws around.

Again, just one person's take on those scenes.

I have mixed emotions about the Season Six finale. It was either brilliant or the moment the show jumped the shark.

Like DJ, I didn't believe that Weiner believed in redemption. But last night, he started Don on the path of redemption IMO, there's no turning back without the risk of making a mockery of the first six seasons.

It was brilliant, IMO, how Don's path to redemption began: His own realization that things had "Gotten out of hand". The first step in rectifying wrongdoing is realizing that you've been behaving poorly. Don did that last night and seemed content with whatever blowback would happen, whether it be with Megan or Sally or even Ted.

I don't think for a minute that Don didn't realize what he was doing in the Hershey's meeting or the blowback (i.e., firing) that would occur. I think he felt they were necessary steps in order to come to grips with massive downfall. One has to look in the face of the devil in order to be redeemed, and IMO, that's exactly what Don did last night.

I also found it interesting that several of the characters WERE Don Draper last night: Pete, dealing with the loss of his overbearing mother. Ted, acting like Don, having an affair, asking for forgiveness from Don in order to rectify his wrongs and Peggy, sleeping around, finding no fulfilling relationships or triumphs other than professionally, with her taking over Don's office and view. Her arc is the most interesting and I'm quite possibly more excited to see how it ends next season that Don's.

Ted and Pete are on their own path to redemption as well. Both are trying to reconcile with their families (although Pete's is more mental than anything else). Roger is attempting to connect with his bastard child because it's clear that there's not much hope for a loving stable relationship with his daughter. She's seen too much.

Where the show ultimately lost and confused me last night is that nowhere, not once, did anyone of Don's friends, whether it was Roger or Joan (or anyone other than Peggy "Monster!") confront Don and try to help him get it together. Don and Roger palled around as much as anyone on this show and they'd both shared good times and bad, but in the hour of Don's most discontent, Roger fires him? That seemed very unrealistic to me, especially since Roger too is on a path of redemption.

Also, the one thing that never seems to be mentioned or even hinted at is that Don doesn't need the ad business. He doesn't need SC&P or any of its previous incarnations because he's a millionaire. And being a millionaire in the mid 60's is akin to having $10 million today. And we've never seen him lead a lavish lifestyle or live beyond his ample means. If anything, he's probably got even more money stashed away.

So in terms of "What does it all mean?", the guy can go buy a beach house in Santa Monica and live comfortably without ever working another day in his life. Losing his job is fairly meaningless, especially given the fact that if he DOES clean up, there would be a massive bidding war for his services, whether it be in Manhattan, Chicago, Los Angeles or San Francisco. The guy is well-known, hot commodity and a little tension for a few months at SC&P would not hinder anyone from pursuing his service.

On another note, according to this interview today with Weiner, he has no idea where the show is going in its final season. He doesn't know what year the show will be set and he doesn't even know if the final season will be a "stand alone" season with its own ending or if the final season will actually be a final season. It may just be an ambiguous end.

http://www.vulture.com/2013/06/matth...en-finale.html

Don was fired, but he's still a partner, no?

Joan's pissed at Don for bailing out of Jaguar for Chevy.

Roger is all about Roger anymore.. Yes he wants to be involved with Kevin but even then don't you think that's only because he's a boy and not a girl?

Don's only true friend was Anna. No one else cares for him as both Don and Dick like she did. Megan, I think, has shown her true colors in letting go of the notion she can be an actress and wife and now has the chops to succeed as the former. I mean, hell, she didn't grovel about any of his problems being her fault and wrote off the children as damaged goods.

Peggy could've been his closest friend and even more than that but the whole money throwing thing from the SCDP days and her own ambition puts that to rest.

He did a huge solid for Dr. Rosen but I doubt we see him (and hopefully Sylvia) again.

Weiner successfully deconstructed Don in 13 hours of television and its going to be pretty damned interesting to see what happens next as it looks like he's done for in advertising.

If Don shopped himself on the market in 6 months, he'd probably end up making as much/more money as he was making at SCP.

Draper's bona fides are well established - he'd incite a bidding war even among the largest firms. If his timing was right, he'd probably be able to land a creative director slot at an even larger firm.

Elite talent at the upper levels is rarely available and in a market as 'shady' as advertising, nobody is without blood on their hands. If Don wanted to go back into the game, he'd probably fall uphill for his troubles.

The interesting question is whether or not he wants to. He's not 'done for' in advertising, but he may well be done with advertising.

All it takes is Bert Cooper revealing that Don Draper is a complete fabrication though...

Are you kidding? No one would care or even think twice about hiring him. The guy has kicked ass for the better part of ten years.

All that matters is that he brings in the business. Period.

blaaaa

This. Nobody would care. As he noted regarding Chevy, they just want his head in a jar/corner office.

Exactly.

Talent is a funny thing. You see lawyers in the major metro areas get censured, suspended and tossed from big-money practices every year. These are public lambastings and everyone on the bench and bar knows about them.

But a year later, those guys will be at another silk-stocking firm pulling down an easy six figures.

Talent trumps all in insular professions. A guy with Draper's resume and name value, even if Cooper did look to blow him out of the water, would land on his feet in no time flat.

Duck's biggest problem and the reason he's not back in the game is that he was simply never as good as Don but believed he was. If Don wants to be the big dick in charge of another top 30 agency, all he'd have to do is bide his time until a slot opened up and he'd skyrocket to the top of the interview lists. If he shows up sober with the same fastball he had when he was pitching Kodak, they'd give him whatever he wants.

I don't think the problem with Don's identity being exposed is in adverting so much as it is with the military. I doubt that they're going to let off someone who stole a dead soldier's identity in order to go AWOL, especially in the middle of the Vietnam War. There would probably even be questions as to whether he murdered the real Don.

Murdered? I don't think so. They were clearly the victims of a bombing or mortar attack. The real Don Draper's face was blown off.

There would be no investigation for murder.

It's almost 20 years after the Korean War.

There would be no investigation into anything. The US Military in 1969 had plenty to worry about, they weren't going to throw assets at military tribunals designed to bury rich white guys for going AWOL 2 decades ago.

That's why all this "Bob Benson is a spy" crap was always nonsense to me. A) It's not Weiner's thing; he doesn't do soap opera twists. But B) The government would give zero ****s about Whitman at this point if he just kept his head down and his mouth shut, which is exactly what he's done.

Exactly.

And no offense to some of the other posters in this thread, but seriously, this is what you want to talk about? This is what you got from this season? Whether or not Don's still a partner after being fired or whether he'd be charged with murder, when murder was clearly not the case?

The future of Don Draper/Dick Whitman is so much more interesting to discuss. What happens to his family, to his current wife, to his psyche? Where does he live in Season Seven? Has he reconciled with his children, especially Sally? Has he come to grips with the demons inside or him or will it always be a constant battle?

There are just endless possibilities to address.

But murder? No.

Real Don survived the mortar attack, he wasn't killed until afterward when Dick accidentally dropped a lit lighter into spilled gasoline, causing an explosion. So look at it from the outside: two guys alone together in a remote outpost, one dies and is burned beyond recognition, and the other steals his identity in order to leave Korea years early. I'm not saying that Don would be convicted, but there would have to be questions.

And no, in a vacuum I wouldn't say the military would be super interested in prosecuting a rich white man who went AWOL twenty years ago. But if the media got a hold of it, during the Vietnam War, in the midst of all the controversy about draft dodging?

Any questions would have been answered back when the event occurred in 1950-1952, not in 1972.

I sincerely doubt that after six seasons, Matthew Weiner is interested in putting Don Draper on trial for a murder he didn't commit 20 years earlier.

Who in their right mind would watch that? Is that any way to end a brilliant TV show?

The difference is that in 1952 there wouldn't have been a reason to questions Don's version of events. I'm not saying the show will go there, it almost certainly won't, I'm saying that Don being exposed wouldn't be consequence-free. In other words the show won't go there, either.

Has he really been fired? It appears that the door may still be open. I think whether or not he's still at SCP is a pretty important story line.

The media tend to overdue everything. I am sure Wolf Blitzer would have loved to get his hands on a story like this.

I think Wiener is going to somehow tie this back to the lighter.

Weiner has suggested in interviews that I read that yes, he has indeed been fired.

What will be more interesting is where Don's life is when the next season begins. And according to Weiner, there are no guarantees it will be 1969 and it's very possible it will be set in the 70's.

So, what was the "couple of months" bit about? Also, why would they fire (permanently) their rainmaker?

Dude, I don't have the definitive answers. I've read Weiner's quotes. I personally inferred, while watching the show, that he was gone. Done deal. Not welcome back.

We'll have wait until 2014 to find out the truth.

TVLINE | Let’s start with the biggest development: Don is out of the firm?!
Yeah. We felt that, considering the fact that he fired their biggest clients, impulsively drove them into a partnership, ruined their public offering and then waged war on his partner, that Hershey pitch or no Hershey pitch, the business had to take action.

http://tvline.com/2013/06/23/mad-men...ale-don-fired/

Ask Freddy Rumsen.

In a season full of arcs back to previous seasons, this is the EXACT treatment that Freddy got. He was given a 'leave of absence' by Rodger who told him he won't be coming back, then they all went out and got drunk.

The more I think about it, the more I think he did just get axed.

Does Chevy want SCP or Don Draper?

Both. Neither.

They were sold Draper, now all they want are results. If SCP, who has chosen Bob Benson as the face of the franchise w/ Chevy, produces quality product, then Chevy will give zero !@#$s.

Though that's certainly a development that would give Weiner a way to bring Don back into SCP if he really wanted to.

But in the end, I don't think that's happening. Don learned in those last 3 minutes that he has no friends there. He's never had friends there. They were people that rode his talent in the same way he rode the talent of his subordinates. Reality just fist-****ed the guy, IMO.

Season 7 Don opening his own shop, IMO or perhaps just leaving advertising altogether.

its going to be the 80's and he is either back with betty and the kids (full redemtion) or he will be all coked out jumping out the window of the old SC building.

:p

I love the internet:

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A tweet from a couple of days ago: https://twitter.com/kiribatiwriter/s...17929776578562

OTW must've stumbled onto this little goldmine:

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Chocolate..whores love it. haha

Why can't series just end with a finale that is final. Ambiguous like Lost, confusing like Sopranos. **** that. But, I know it will be. :shake:

Do you know what's strange about the Soprano's ending? David Chase has all but said in interviews (let alone the cinematic signs) that Tony died.

"Everything goes to black".

Then, he says just last week, that he was thinking about a Soprano's movie before Gandolfini's untimely death.

Personally, I think he was lying and trying to confuse the ending even further.

ROFL

Holy Hell. Never made the connection before, but Jon Hamm was the character on 'The Unit' that Tiffi cheated on Max with when he was out on missions.

Does it hurt your head to think?

:LOL:
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Yawn!!! Just going through the motions last night.