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excessive 01-07-2018 04:03 PM

Mellinger: Fire Sutton
 
Chiefs need change, and they should begin by firing defensive coordinator Bob Sutton
BY SAM MELLINGER

smellinger@kcstar.com


UPDATED 40 MINUTES AGO

Bob Sutton needs to be fired.

The Chiefs should be looking for a new defensive coordinator. There is no joy in calling for a man’s job, but then, there is no joy in watching a defense underperform its talent and fair expectations over and over and over again.

This can’t continue. That is plain. That is obvious.

Andy Reid isn’t ready to talk about this yet and that’s fine, that’s understandable, that’s his right. What’s more — that’s smart.


The head coach lives this in a way that requires space for any major change. Emotional decisions are usually bad decisions, and Reid had to know the Will You Fire Your DC question was coming in the postmortem press conference the day after another embarrassing postseason collapse.

And he had to know he would answer it with a vague non-answer.

“Time in this league has a funny way of working,” Reid said. “You’ve gotta step back. You’ve gotta evaluate. You’ve gotta go through that process. Look at what’s real, and what’s not. You don’t want to do it when you’re emotional or still tied into what happened obviously last night.

“You’ve gotta fight that. A question like that, you’ve gotta fight that. You step back and you evaluate it, and do what’s right for the Chiefs. If you always come back to that, you’re going to be OK.”

That’s an 86-word excerpt from a longer answer that can be generally summarized: “I just had my heart ripped out, again, and am not yet ready to make any decision more serious than lunch.”

Chiefs' Andy Reid reflects on Wild Card playoff loss: 'We've got to do better'
Kansas City Chiefs coach Andy Reid held a press conference a day after the Chiefs’ 22-21 loss to the Tennessee Titans in an AFC Wild Card playoff game. It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record.

Allison Long The Kansas City Star
Again, you can understand where he’s coming from. Even if he somehow has already decided to move on from Sutton, he hasn’t had a chance to tell his friend and longtime assistant yet, and taking some time comes with no downside.

Potential replacements aren’t being hired, and in fact may still be working. More to the point, Reid’s coaching philosophy centers around personal accountability.

After every loss, he says some form of, “we need to get better and that starts with me.” After the offense played dead in the second half against the Titans, Reid said he called the plays that didn’t work and assistant Matt Nagy called the plays that did.

Firing his defensive coordinator the next day would reek of scapegoating.

But if he hasn’t yet, Reid must soon come to the cold and unemotional conclusion that the Chiefs need a new voice for the defense.

That needs to be only part of the change. Alex Smith must be replaced by Patrick Mahomes, offensive line coach Andy Heck needs to make a convincing case to keep his job, and no position group on the team underperformed as much as the defensive line coached by Reid’s son Britt.

Reid himself should wear the biggest chunk of this loss. He just finished his 19th season as a head coach and by now has earned a reputation for regular season success and postseason failure.

Seventy-eight teams have led by 18 or more at halftime of a playoff game. Only four have lost, and two have been coached by Reid in the last five seasons. He is tied for the third-most playoff losses of any coach in NFL history, and the two ahead of him won multiple Super Bowls.

Chiefs are on this list twice: Teams blowing an 18-point halftime lead in NFL playoffs
According to ESPN research, Andy Reid's Chiefs teams are responsible for two of the only four times in modern NFL playoff history a team has blown an 18-point or larger halftime lead.

Neil Nakahodo, David Eulitt, Shane Keyser, John Sleezer, Allison Long The Kansas City Star
Since 2001, he has won just one playoff game as the underdog, and lost seven as the favorite.

The loss to the Titans followed a familiar pattern: the offense went cold, the defense couldn’t get off the field and the Chiefs had a chance to win at the end and failed.

The standard for this team was always postseason success, so the outcome is a failure, and any credible evaluation of another wasted opportunity must acknowledge Reid’s share of this.

But he’s not going anywhere, for better or worse. Chairman Clark Hunt values the stability Reid has created after the horror show Pioli years, Reid signed a contract extension last summer, and he’ll oversee the quarterback transition to Patrick Mahomes.

Sutton has no excuse, and no cushion.

The Chiefs were 28th in total defense, and 27th in yards surrendered per play. They could not stop the run (24th in yards per carry, 202 given up in the playoff loss), which tended to overshadow the fact that they could not stop the pass (24th in yards per attempt).

Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson: 'If you’re good enough, you come out with that win'
Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Derrick Johnson called Saturday's playoff loss to the Titans one of the toughest of his career.

Sam Mcdowell The Kansas City Star
The advanced metrics, if anything, are worse. Football Outsiders’ DVOA ranks the Chiefs dead last in the league in overall defense.

This fits what the eye sees, too. They could not get off the field on third down (23rd, and second worst among playoff teams), and could not adjust to opponents’ schemes. Sutton allowed Daniel Sorensen to be exposed against the run for far too long, didn’t do enough to scheme pressure, and was far too easy to manipulate.

His scheme had Justin Houston rushing the passer or dropping into coverage based on what the offense showed, which meant the other side was controlling what the Chiefs’ best player did on any given snap.

Sutton had enough to work with, too, even after losing Eric Berry for the season. The Chiefs spend more than half their salary cap on defense, and that’s with stars like Chris Jones and Marcus Peters still on rookie deals, and Reggie Ragland playing for relative peanuts.

If it was bad luck that Berry played just one game, it was good luck that Houston played 17. The injury excuse is a tired one, anyway. Every team has something. The Titans had two defensive starters on IR, and they managed.

Coaches are supposed to put their players in position to succeed, and far too often, Sutton was doing the opposite. The Patriots gave up an average of 32 points in their first four games (including a season-high 42 to the Chiefs in the opener) and then an average of just 14 the rest of the way.

Patriots coach Bill Belichick is an unrealistic standard for defensive scheme, but this is two years in a row the Chiefs have lost a playoff game at home as the betting favorite largely because they could not stop the run and get off the field on third down.

Against the Titans, a team with a struggling quarterback and dangerous running back, the Chiefs used far too much nickel and even dime personnel — including on Derrick Henry’s 35 yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter.

Whether that was because the Titans were able to influence the Chiefs’ substitutions with their own personnel, or because Sutton made the decision on his own is irrelevant. This just can’t continue.

Let us say it one more time: Sutton is not the only problem, and may not even be the biggest.

Reid is Sutton’s boss, and could’ve better protected his defense and an 18-point lead with more carries for the league’s leading rusher.

Even so, the offense could’ve won the game on its last possession, and this is a staggering fact: all but one of the Chiefs’ losses this season could’ve been wins if the offense performed better on its last drive.

The Chiefs aren’t giving the next defensive coordinator a fair shot if they don’t improve the personnel, too, which is part of why the team needs to replace Smith with Mahomes. The change would create $17 million in cap space and whatever draft picks they can acquire in a trade, which is enough for a corner, edge rusher, and defensive lineman.

There can be no doubt, in any part of the organization, about whether change is needed. We can have lively and smart debates about how far that change needs to go.

But there is no question that it needs to include the defensive coordinator, whenever Reid is ready.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...193446229.html

pugsnotdrugs19 01-07-2018 04:04 PM

Kudos to Mellinger for writing a necessary article that most wouldn't.

GloucesterChief 01-07-2018 04:05 PM

He won't because Reid is too damn loyal for the good of his own job.

Ming the Merciless 01-07-2018 04:07 PM

I mean...I am torn

This whole defense wouldve been SO much better with Berry

We also need a passrusher

I would say we should wait one season...but I mean ..I will defer to those more in the know than me but it seems like this whole thing was built around a safety that can cover elite TE's and stop the run too

Im so excited for next season, with or without sutton

mnchiefsguy 01-07-2018 04:08 PM

Best article Mellinger has written in a long time.

KChiefs1 01-07-2018 04:09 PM

Sam understands.

NJChiefsFan 01-07-2018 04:10 PM

I do agree with him but he sees more talent than I do.

Deberg_1990 01-07-2018 04:10 PM

Doubtful he fires his own son. But the D line definitely underperformed

Sassy Squatch 01-07-2018 04:10 PM

He owns 2 of the worst defensive collapses in the history of the playoffs in only 5 years on the job. Get. The. ****. Out.

FloridaMan88 01-07-2018 04:10 PM

When your defense gets lit up by the likes of the NY Jets and your defense gives up 7/7 on third down conversions in a half to a Tennessee offense that was ranked 25th in third down conversion %, you don’t get a “No Eric Berry” excuse.

Sandy Vagina 01-07-2018 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 13343176)
Kudos to Mellinger for writing a necessary article that most wouldn't.

agreed.

Ain't winning shit in the playoffs with the worst defense (dvoa) in the League.

(not that the refs were gonna let it happen anyway)

Molitoth 01-07-2018 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 13343190)
I mean...I am torn

This whole defense wouldve been SO much better with Berry

We also need a passrusher

I would say we should wait one season...but I mean ..I will defer to those more in the know than me but it seems like this whole thing was built around a safety that can cover elite TE's and stop the run too

Im so excited for next season, with or without sutton

Good news, we HAVE a passrusher. Sutton just drops him Into coverage.

Titty Meat 01-07-2018 04:12 PM

Mellinger also needs to be fired. Obnoxious douchebag.

NJChiefsFan 01-07-2018 04:14 PM

Did reid really say he called the plays that didn't work and nagy called the ones that did.

petegz28 01-07-2018 04:16 PM

Jags defense held a 7 point lead for an entire half without their offense scoring....

Our defense couldn't hold an 18 pt lead for a half....AGAIN

Sandy Vagina 01-07-2018 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 13343239)
Did reid really say he called the plays that didn't work and nagy called the ones that did.

I saw him state that during the press conference last night.

One could speculate that he was being facetious.. but I think most took him at value.

Sandy Vagina 01-07-2018 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 13343250)
Jags defense held a 7 point lead for an entire half without their offense scoring....

Our defense couldn't hold an 18 pt lead for a half....AGAIN

It was kind of refreshing to watch a truly competent (spectacular, really) defense today. A bitter pill, after yesterday, but it was nice to witness.

TigeRRUppeRRcut 01-07-2018 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 13343250)
Jags defense held a 7 point lead for an entire half without their offense scoring....

Our defense couldn't hold an 18 pt lead for a half....AGAIN

:clap:

TigeRRUppeRRcut 01-07-2018 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 13343216)
When your defense gets lit up by the likes of the NY Jets and your defense gives up 7/7 on third down conversions in a half to a Tennessee offense that was ranked 25th in third down conversion %, you don’t get a “No Eric Berry” excuse.

And even when we had Eric Berry our run defense wasn't any better , statistically.

You can't win in this league losing the battle in the trenches.

pugsnotdrugs19 01-07-2018 04:20 PM

The Jaguars defense is right on par with Denver in 2015. There are probably 15-20 NFL QBs who can go to the SB with them right now.

NJChiefsFan 01-07-2018 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Vagina (Post 13343251)
I saw him state that during the press conference last night.

One could speculate that he was being facetious.. but I think most took him at value.

Where to even begin. Why is he calling plays at all?

mcaj22 01-07-2018 04:20 PM

Why does Andy have this much power and control on the Chiefs.

When he came to KC five years ago, one of the first things he said was he did way too much in Philly and that's what got him. He just wanted to coach and would delegate everything in a checks and balance.

5 years into KC he's still judge, jury and executioner of players, staff, etc. Won a power struggle over the last GM, THAT HE PICKED. And will be the one that fires and replaces whatever coaches he wants.

So he's just going to replace Sutton with one of his buddies, who might actually be worse.

I hate that its a good old boys league.

Ming the Merciless 01-07-2018 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 13343263)
The Jaguars defense is right on par with Denver in 2015. There are probably 15-20 NFL QBs who can go to the SB with them right now.

Oh they're not going to the superbowl

Sandy Vagina 01-07-2018 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 13343263)
The Jaguars defense is right on par with Denver in 2015. There are probably 15-20 NFL QBs who can go to the SB with them right now.

truth

Prison Bitch 01-07-2018 04:21 PM

Fat Andys son is our DL coach? Lol

Red Dawg 01-07-2018 04:22 PM

Should have happened already. Old goofy old geezer should be gone.

Sandy Vagina 01-07-2018 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan (Post 13343266)
Where to even begin. Why is he calling plays at all?

He can't help himself. Call it ego. Call it wanting to leave his mark. Call it getting caught up in the moment and thinking you know better. I dunno.

pugsnotdrugs19 01-07-2018 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 13343270)
Oh they're not going to the superbowl

Certainly not with Blake

Ming the Merciless 01-07-2018 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Vagina (Post 13343272)
truth


ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

GUYS IF ALEX SMITH WAS A JAG THEY WOULDVE WON THE SUPERBOWL

STUPID CHIEFS SUCK ASS

**** MISSOURI

Discuss Thrower 01-07-2018 04:23 PM

Fire Bob Sutton for John Dorsey's incompetence at drafting defensive players.

hitchief 01-07-2018 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 13343176)
Kudos to Mellinger for writing a necessary article that most wouldn't.

Too true!

And if your going to replace Alex and start anew what better time to revamp the entire D including the DC.

So sick of hearing Andy say they have to do better but then he changes almost nothing in the way of coaching??

pugsnotdrugs19 01-07-2018 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 13343288)
Fire Bob Sutton for John Dorsey's incompetence at drafting defensive players.

That's.... questionable.

We've had the most predictable defense in the league for 5 years now. We've been grossly unaggressive for a couple of years now.

They play with no edge, no killer instinct.

Ragged Robin 01-07-2018 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle (Post 13343215)
He owns 2 of the worst defensive collapses in the history of the playoffs in only 5 years on the job. Get. The. ****. Out.

:clap:

ILChief 01-07-2018 04:27 PM

Bravo. Every word is true

Sassy Squatch 01-07-2018 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Vagina (Post 13343251)
I saw him state that during the press conference last night.

One could speculate that he was being facetious.. but I think most took him at value.

IF that is true, then Andy needs to go as well. Inexcusable.

Hog's Gone Fishin 01-07-2018 04:29 PM

Suttons defense had DJ blitz Mariota for a sack and fumble for 7 points that turned into 3 points for the Tit's . Not Suttons fault the Refs were told to let the Tits win.

Not champing for Sutton but thats the truth.

Discuss Thrower 01-07-2018 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 13343304)
That's.... questionable.

We've had the most predictable defense in the league for 5 years now. We've been grossly unaggressive for a couple of years now.

They play with no edge, no killer instinct.

Because they've had just one effective pass rusher and one great DB playmaker over the last five seasons and gotten by with some one year wonder FA signings on the defensive line.

Sutton's done more with less in terms of what he's been given personnel wise.

I expect he'll be fired Monday, but again I say, who else are you going to get that's going to be able to turn chicken shit into chicken salad?

pugsnotdrugs19 01-07-2018 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 13343320)
Because they've had just one effective pass rusher and one great DB playmaker over the last five seasons and gotten by with some one year wonder FA signings on the defensive line.

Sutton's done more with less in terms of what he's been given personnel wise.

I expect he'll be fired Monday, but again I say, who else are you going to get that's going to be able to turn chicken shit into chicken salad?

How can you say the talent has been so bad? How many teams have had Marcus Peters, Justin Houston, Eric Berry, prime Poe, prime Sean Smith, Hali when he was still good, Chris Jones, Derrick Johnson, Bailey, Howard, prime Devito, prime Abdullah, etc... I could go on and on.

There is no good excuse to be made for the terrible misusage of some of these defenders over the years. Peters doesn't follow number one receivers. Houston is in coverage half of the time. Hali and Tanoh sitting for Zombo. Sorensen being used as an ILB.

Sutton SUCKS.

old_geezer 01-07-2018 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 13343273)
Fat Andys son is our DL coach? Lol

I did not realize that either. That is crap (just like our defensive line).

Chiefnj2 01-07-2018 04:42 PM

KC needs writers who aren't afraid of being denied access to the team. This team desperately needs a Whitlock to help hold them accountable.

Chiefnj2 01-07-2018 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin (Post 13343317)
Suttons defense had DJ blitz Mariota for a sack and fumble for 7 points that turned into 3 points for the Tit's . Not Suttons fault the Refs were told to let the Tits win.

Not champing for Sutton but thats the truth.

Staying in nickel and dime packages (that was gashed by the run all season) when Henry got rolling is Suttons fault.

Discuss Thrower 01-07-2018 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 13343350)
How can you say the talent has been so bad? How many teams have had Marcus Peters, Justin Houston, Eric Berry, prime Poe, prime Sean Smith, Hali when he was still good, Chris Jones, Derrick Johnson, Bailey, Howard, prime Devito, prime Abdullah, etc... I could go on and on.

There is no good excuse to be made for the terrible misusage of some of these defenders over the years. Peters doesn't follow number one receivers. Houston is in coverage half of the time. Hali and Tanoh sitting for Zombo. Sorensen being used as an ILB.

Sutton SUCKS.

Peters and Jones are the only two consensus starters that have been drafted in Sutton's tenure. The other guys were drafted during earlier GM regimes or FA signings.

That group of guys you listed made for a good defensive run during the middle part of the last five years -it just didn't amount to anything because of reasons that I don't wanna get Bob-Dole banned for in mentioning.

First three round draft busts like KeiVarae Russel, Philip Gaines and Dee Ford have been twice the reason for KC's defensive failures compared to Sutton's inabilities to adjust a game plan.

Easy 6 01-07-2018 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 13343350)
How can you say the talent has been so bad? How many teams have had Marcus Peters, Justin Houston, Eric Berry, prime Poe, prime Sean Smith, Hali when he was still good, Chris Jones, Derrick Johnson, Bailey, Howard, prime Devito, prime Abdullah, etc... I could go on and on.

There is no good excuse to be made for the terrible misusage of some of these defenders over the years. Peters doesn't follow number one receivers. Houston is in coverage half of the time. Hali and Tanoh sitting for Zombo. Sorensen being used as an ILB.

Sutton SUCKS.

QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 13343387)
KC needs writers who aren't afraid of being denied access to the team. This team desperately needs a Whitlock to help hold them accountable.

Yeah, I really like Paylor... but he is kind of a softball tossing company man

dannybcaitlyn 01-07-2018 04:52 PM

I’m liking Melllinger more everyday.

CapsLockKey 01-07-2018 04:58 PM

Sutton overall isn't horrible and does a decent enough job preparing but the guy struggles at making adjustments which is why he needs to go. Too many times he's been out coached in the second half of games. I don't blame Peters for blowing up on him earlier in the year. He knows it too.

Molitoth 01-07-2018 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsLockKey (Post 13343453)
Sutton overall isn't horrible and does a decent enough job preparing but the guy struggles at making adjustments which is why he needs to go. Too many times he's been out coached in the second half of games. I don't blame Peters for blowing up on him earlier in the year. He knows it too.

Me either. Bob Sutton is a shithead.

Coach 01-07-2018 05:04 PM

2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

jaa1025 01-07-2018 05:05 PM

The D line should have been the strength of the defense but it took a huge step backwards. Houston was used horribly. All the CB's took a step back. Safeties were terrible. The scheme throughout the year was probably one of the worst I've ever seen.

mnchiefsguy 01-07-2018 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 13343480)
2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

Holy ****ing shit, that is bad.

Molitoth 01-07-2018 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsLockKey (Post 13343453)
Sutton overall isn't horrible and does a decent enough job preparing but the guy struggles at making adjustments which is why he needs to go. Too many times he's been out coached in the second half of games. I don't blame Peters for blowing up on him earlier in the year. He knows it too.

Everyone of us at home have been screaming at Bob Shithead Sutton all season, but when Marcus Peters did it, he got labeled a "thug".

Fish 01-07-2018 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 13343480)
2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

****ing yikes!

FloridaMan88 01-07-2018 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 13343480)
2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

The #1 CB on the 2003 defense = Eric Warfield; #1 CB on the 2017 defense = Marcus Peters. Enough said.

The Sutton Apologists (whose mere presence just confirms that there are dumbshits out there who will apologize for anything/anyone) should take note of that comparison to Greg Robinson’s epic fail defense.

Donger 01-07-2018 05:13 PM

It was the Chiefs' sixth straight home playoff loss, a NFL record.

Ugh. Jesus.

Bewbies 01-07-2018 05:14 PM

Completely agree with Mellinger.

And the 2003 v 2017 stat holy shit how does Sutton have a job?

Pasta Little Brioni 01-07-2018 05:15 PM

The 03 defense didn't fall apart till the 2nd half of the season

Why Not? 01-07-2018 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 13343387)
KC needs writers who aren't afraid of being denied access to the team. This team desperately needs a Whitlock to help hold them accountable.

This article is the closest we've seen to a Whitlock call out since he left.

Hog's Gone Fishin 01-07-2018 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 13343480)
2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.


was that the Greg Robinson defense ? I can't remember.

kcpasco 01-07-2018 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball (Post 13343531)
The 03 defense didn't fall apart till the 2nd half of the season

This. Those stats are a little misleading because when that 03 defense fell apart it was a lot of yards in much fewer games. This defense has just sucked over the course of 17 games played.

Coach 01-07-2018 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin (Post 13343542)
was that the Greg Robinson defense ? I can't remember.

Yes.

Discuss Thrower 01-07-2018 05:19 PM

Nico Johnson - played six games for KC before winding up in Cinci in 2014; out of the league in 2016.

Sanders Commings - out of the league in 2014.

Mike Catapano - played 15 games in 2013 before disappearing in 2014 because of GRID; became a Jet in 2015 and didn't play a down in 2017.

Dee Ford - was R-Kal Truluck 2: Electric Boogaloo until he got double digit sacks last season; didn't play more than half the season this year because of injuries

Philip Gaines- if he's not getting toasted in coverage he's drawing penalties

Marcus Peters - boom or bust hot head that makes Deion Sanders blush with pride with the amount of business decisions he makes in open field tackling situations.

Steve Nelson - so far a JAG rotational guy.

Ramik Wilson - JAG rotational guy, so far.

DJ Alexander - special teamer guy in KC and traded to Seattle this year.

Nunez-Roches - missed the playoff game last night with injury, starter.

Chris Jones - most promising young player in this list after Peters, starter.

KeiVarae Russel - cut before the 2016 season and winds up in Cincinnati; JAG guy with the Bengals.

Eric Murray - jury's out, but looks like a rotational / depth guy so far.

DJ White - played 11 games in KC last season; waiver pick by the Colts this year and played in 2 games.

Dadi Nicholas - preseason hype but injured.

K-pas, Eligwe and McQuay are rookies, so not a lot can be said about them.


There's four guys in the above list that have shown at least starter-caliber play. Four.

Coach 01-07-2018 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball (Post 13343531)
The 03 defense didn't fall apart till the 2nd half of the season

Correct, when Mike Mal-slow-ski went down, the whole defense went down.

But even that, there were warning signs that they were going to collapse at the time.

Same thing happened this year in terms of giving up yardage.

Basically put, whoever advocates a bend-but-don't break defense, well.... it won't end well.

oldman 01-07-2018 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaa1025 (Post 13343484)
Safeties were terrible.

Don't make your SS an ILB.

Mama Hip Rockets 01-07-2018 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 13343480)
2017 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,952
Rushing Yards Allowed - 1,890
Total Yards Allowed - 5,842

2003 Chiefs Defense Totals
Passing Yards Allowed - 3,363
Rushing Yards Allowed - 2,344
Total Yards Allowed - 5,707

And I want to say that 2017 defense, in my opinion, is far more superior in terms of talent on the defensive side than 2003 was.

Whoa.

Pasta Little Brioni 01-07-2018 05:31 PM

Werthers turned into Spinner 2.0

TEX 01-07-2018 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapsLockKey (Post 13343453)
Sutton overall isn't horrible and does a decent enough job preparing but the guy struggles at making adjustments which is why he needs to go. Too many times he's been out coached in the second half of games. I don't blame Peters for blowing up on him earlier in the year. He knows it too.

No. He's horrible. When he does make adjustments, the opposing offense knows them. It was pretty dumb to try and use Sorenson the same way as Berry, but he stuck with it. :shake:

Deberg_1990 01-07-2018 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach (Post 13343553)
Correct, when Mike Mal-slow-ski went down, the whole defense went down.

But even that, there were warning signs that they were going to collapse at the time.

Same thing happened this year in terms of giving up yardage.

Basically put, whoever advocates a bend-but-don't break defense, well.... it won't end well.

Both the 2003 team and Sutton’s defenses stand back and rely on the timely turnover. Turnovers are great but you can’t rely on them all the time. At some point you have to line up, smack the other team in the mouth and make them punt.

Sutton’s Ds are soft. Very soft

Coach 01-07-2018 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 13343669)
Both the 2003 team and Sutton’s defenses stand back and rely on the timely turnover. Turnovers are great but you can’t rely on them all the time. At some point you have to line up, smack the other team in the mouth and make them punt.

Sutton’s Ds are soft. Very soft

The difference was, 2003 couldn't force a turnover in the playoffs. This defense did (MP22 pick). That's where I was coming from in terms of talent.

Sutton's schemes and personality is just a wrong fit for KC. Way too much dime defense to my liking.

You know, what's funny is, dime defense purpose is to use a defensive alignment that uses six defensive backs. It is usually employed in obvious passing situations.

Yet, they gave up all those passing yards, 29th in the NFL. What good is a dime defense if you're giving up all those yards? It can be talent, scheme, and/or coaching.

It was the combination of all the above.

Pasta Little Brioni 01-07-2018 06:00 PM

Watch Henry's TD run and say he has a ****ing clue...

PAChiefsGuy 01-07-2018 06:00 PM

I've been saying all year how bad this defense is. It's bad in almost all phases.

I don't think Sutton is a bad DC but I don't think he is good either. I still think the problem is mostly personnel. I'd give him one more year but if the D doesn't drastically improve next season it is time for him to go.

Molitoth 01-07-2018 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy (Post 13343692)
I've been saying all year how bad this defense is. It's bad in almost all phases.

I don't think Sutton is a bad DC but I don't think he is good either. I still think the problem is mostly personnel. I'd give him one more year but if the D doesn't drastically improve next season it is time for him to go.

1 more year!!! Says every true fan with excuses.


Sutton has been here 2 seasons too long.

Ming the Merciless 01-07-2018 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy (Post 13343692)
I still think the problem is mostly personnel. I'd give him one more year but if the D doesn't drastically improve next season it is time for him to go.

I would concur here...next year should be the hotseat year for the guy

Ming the Merciless 01-07-2018 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth (Post 13343728)
1 more year!!! Says every true fan with excuses.


Sutton has been here 2 seasons too long.

meh theres no hurry...we're probably not going to legitimately contend for a ring next year so PA has a reasonable point....

Molitoth 01-07-2018 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pawnmower (Post 13343735)
meh theres no hurry...we're probably not going to legitimately contend for a ring next year so PA has a reasonable point....

Take away the turnovers (by the players) and tell me how awesome and unpredictable Sutton is.

Tell me how you misutilize one of the best pass rushers in football.

pugsnotdrugs19 01-07-2018 06:17 PM

We're the only defense in the league not letting our star CB follow #1 WRs, dropping our best pass rusher into coverage half of the time, and blitzing maybe 3 times per game.

He's gotta go.

Deberg_1990 01-07-2018 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy (Post 13343692)
I've been saying all year how bad this defense is. It's bad in almost all phases.

I don't think Sutton is a bad DC but I don't think he is good either. I still think the problem is mostly personnel. I'd give him one more year but if the D doesn't drastically improve next season it is time for him to go.

1 more year? He’s had 5 And 2 epic playoff collapses. How much more do you need to see?

PAChiefsGuy 01-07-2018 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 13343750)
1 more year? He’s had 5 And 2 epic playoff collapses. How much more do you need to see?

The talent is not there for this defense to be good. If you think getting a new DC is going to magically make this defense a top-10 D you are guys are going to be sadly mistaken.

gold_and_red 01-07-2018 06:19 PM

If we are gutting many older and overpaid players on the D we might as well change the scheme and the DC.
God knows who is going to be injured in 2018, can't be using that excuse for Sutton forever.
CHunt sensing the restless fanbase may force Reid to make a change, but fully expecting nothing to happen because Chiefs.

The Franchise 01-07-2018 06:20 PM

Find a DC that will take Houston and actually use him to rush the passer. Stop giving the WRs 10 yards of cushion. Stop running the nickel so ****ing much.

Ming the Merciless 01-07-2018 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth (Post 13343741)
Take away the turnovers (by the players) and tell me how awesome and unpredictable Sutton is.

Tell me how you misutilize one of the best pass rushers in football.

well...his D is about dropping guys into coverage and creating turnovers and mistakes...so yes...without turnovers most defenses suck.

Weve been getting run over....to me thats the biggest problem.

that seems like a personnel issue to me . partially from losing EB....so I dunno..Im saying its REASONABLE to wait 1 more year..

Now, I also agree that it is REASONABLE to want his ass on a platter...for sure...I just dont think its insane or homeriffic to give him one more year to sort it out...thats all

Molitoth 01-07-2018 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy (Post 13343758)
The talent is not there for this defense to be good. If you think getting a new DC is going to magically make this defense a top-10 D you are guys are going to be sadly mistaken.

From the same douche who thinks Alex needs more talent around him.


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