-- Hey CP - Where exactly are you with regards to Justin Houston?
 

I know it's not popular, but; I'm SO cool w/ him not being here next season. Let me start w/ I LOVE Justin, but it's time for an entire agitation (as far as I'm concerned) -- You guys know how much I loved him, from UGA and what not. Fell to us in the draft after a Marijuana case, and he learned from it!

Don't get it twisted - my opinion is ALL BUSINESS. We will NEVER replace JH next year regarding talent - but if we can SORT of 'come close' w/ regards to a replacement, then I'll be cool. I think if those were the cases; we can add another stud w/ just a slight sub par replacement (at that position) and also: (the ability to add another quality positional starter)

I'd like to hear from my people, here.

If this were to happen - we all know JH will be just fine in finding work w/o reducing to sacking groceries at the Winn Dixie.

Thanks all!

Restructure or be gone. Just business. Getting paid like your a top defensive player in the whole NFL. But your at best average these days.

Blinded by his contract. Something has to be done with that. If not, bye.

I honestly think Houston is the best defender we have. I also think he is a better pash rusher than Ford. Losing him makes this D alot worse.

BRC, come on, he's above average - do you realize that IF we released him how hard it'd be to replace him w/o taking (at least) a slight step back.

I get it though - like you; we're all sold on him primarily being a pass-rusher, but he does a lot of intangibles well. That's hard to find out there.

we can get a top defensive FA that is actually a top player in the NFL. That improves the team.

Personally, I’d say keep him and tag and trade ford if it’s one or the other. Hopefully they draft a pass rusher with one of the first 3 picks and I’d rather have Houston mentoring them than Ford. Also, we could release him the following year with no real cap loss, so there isn’t much risk in keeping him another year. If he is willing to restructure then I think keeping him is a no brained. Him being on the field is partially why Ford had such a good season.

This scheme will also help Kpass and speaks, so we have options on the roster as well to replace Ford, who has missed a ton of time anyways. Houston’s injury was by contact, and had the chiefs handled his return table better, he wouldn’t have re-tore it and missed more time. Ford has had back issues and countless nagging injuries.

I think the switch to 4/3 is a game-changing outlook w/ regard to responsibility and 'who' does 'what' and when - I think we need to remember that.

Who are you gonna get at his position that would be as good? That’s also shelling out big time guaranteed money. Houston’s contract gives us yr to yr flexibility now.

Let me be fair - I'm okay w/ this, too. Houston is better suited for this new switch and it makes far more sense. I just like that free'd money more-so - but that's a solid post my brother. I'm good w/ it.

Id rather have Houston than Ford. Cutting Houston saves around 15 mil and franchising Ford will cost around 16 million. Get rid of Ford and hope either Speaks or KPass can take the spot.

Ya I do as well as far as the money. Especially now that it can be rolled over year by year so that makes it a hard decision. Do you think it comes down to Ford or Houston? Because I don’t see both of them on the roster next season.

I agree. If we trade Ford then the cap will lay out a very similar way

Kpass was asked to lose weight for his OLB switch. He was deactivated the last several games of the season. Anyone think they already knew about the switch to a 4-3 and just shut him down for the year to start preparing his body for the scheme change?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs pass rushers Dee Ford, Justin Houston &amp; Chris Jones combined for 164 QB pressures during the regular season, most among any trio in the NFL.<br><br>No player converted more pressures into turnovers than Dee Ford (10) this season.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvsKC?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvsKC</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKindgom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKindgom</a> <a href="https://t.co/SIyMRHFvbz">pic.twitter.com/SIyMRHFvbz</a></p>&mdash; Next Gen Stats (@NextGenStats) <a href="https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1083504623212621826?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'd rather keep Houston than Ford, especially in this scheme. He's just a far better all-around DE and actually has the size and strength to hold up in it. You pretty much have to play Ford in a wide 9 IMO if you keep him around. I don't know if he could be very effective sliding in much.

I'd prefer to keep him on a restructured deal, but would cut him for cap relief if he is unwilling to do that. This is magnified if we can't post June 1 Berry due to injury contract rules.

I'd rather have an elite safety and a solid pass rusher than Justin Houston

I let him walk. Berry too on a post June, 1st designation. And I tag Ford with the tag that allows him to talk to other teams.

Pay cut or dump him. Same for Berry after June 1.

Keep him.

+1. Unless it follows a trade I don't get why we want to tag Ford so badly. I'd rather keep the 15m and use it elsewhere with Houston on the books.

so cutting houston and then cutting eric berry post june 1st gives us almost 50 million cap room

Keep Chris Jones. Rest of the defense can go to the AAF.

Bye Felicia.

Time to get younger and faster st the position... his bloated contract isn’t worth his production.

I would leave it up to the new coaching staff on that side of the ball. I think you keep Houston, let Ford walk. I would love a tag and trade but fear that won't go as well as we would hope. But at this point we don't know how the scheme change will impact everyone and Houston has enough skills still to adjust well.

Ford absolutely has trade value. Either way he is getting tagged. I think we could get the packers pick at 30 or do a player plus pick like they did for smith.

I honestly have no freaking clue what to do with him. We're obviously overpaying him, but I'd hate to see the Defense without him.

I'm very much not in favor of keeping Ford, especially for long term money. So I guess that puts me in rather keep him than roll with nobody camp.

I’m probably I the minority but I think Houston’s probably our best defender and it’s probably not as close of a race as a lot of people think. I think he would play the run and pass fine as a de with some line backer versatility in this scheme and I’m not huge on a restructure because bs like that gets you hamstrung to old players past functionality like halo and dj. The money isn’t ideal but unless there’s a solid de on the market for what you save it just doesn’t make sense to me.

This dude lead the league in pressures and forced fumbles. There's no way we'd get anything less than a 2 and an additional mid round pick. The league is always desperate for pass rushers.

I love him, but he needs to go

Keep Houston, left Ford walk, sign Collins. To the ship

Landon Collins may get the franchise tag and the giants need a pass rusher. They can also release Olivier Vernon post June 1 from his bloated contract. I'd take Collins and a 3 for Ford all day and I think that's realistic. Then you'd need houston to stay of course.

Better suited or not, we can take Houston's $15 million and get a more impactful defensive player for that kind of money. Again, its just business.

Ride it out with him this year to see how he cuts it in the new 4-3 defense.

If he performs, restructure his contract next year to save money on the cap going forward.

If he continues to drop off, release him after next year with no cap liability and you just freed up $22 million dollars of cap space to use on Hill and Jones new contracts.

If it comes down to Houston vs. Ford, it's a no-brainer keeping Houston. Ford is a one-trick pony. I we're going to a 4-3, playing Houston at DE makes a lot more sense than Ford. Speaks will do just fine at the other DE.

But if they decide he doesn't 'fit' this defense and/or the new D coaches think they'll be better off w/o him and possibly using his money elsewhere, then just cut him now and be done with it.

Letting him go is probably the right move, but I could still be on board with keeping him another year to see how the new scheme might help him contribute something to the defense that is more commensurate to his salary.

I too would rather keep Houston than Ford. All I know is they can't keep both of them.

9 sacks, 5 FF and 1 INT in 11 games won't be easy to replace. I'm good with keeping Houston but I'd extend him and lower his cap number. That said If Spags doesn't think he fits I'd try and trade him to Romeo Crennel or maybe the Falcons or some place he desires where he'll be okay with re-working his contract so the trade would go through. I wouldn't just cut him because he's still a good player.

Have to keep him at least another year. I think it best to see how he translates to the new scheme and coaching. Could be a game changer. Regardless I would still try to lower his cap number and ask him to join the mind scheme of the future is now and we have Mahomie!!

Post #2 seals the deal.

I think he'll age pretty well in that he won't just fall off the cliff. Similar to how Suggs has with the Ravens.

I'd be fine extending him and getting the number down. Problem is with injuries.

Injuries are the reason I wouldn't keep Ford.

I've come to expect them to tag him so I've just kinda moved on, atleast with Ford its' just for a season in which he'll likely play his ass off again for a new deal elsewhere.

I'm just not keen on $15M (or more, if they have to tag him as a 4-3 DE) sitting on the bench all year, after what just happened with Berry.

Houston can be moved around. Ford cannot. I would tag ford and trade for a pick, hopefully to draft a MLB or true SAM. Houston can play the weak end/rush end easily.

That would be my preference by far. I know people covet sacks but I really just don't like Ford. The injury history screams "let him go somewhere else".

I don't think the Chiefs are super high on Ford either...I just don't think that they think they can replace him this year.

I'm guessing they figure they're gonna be jumping out to leads a lot and teams are going to be throwing it a lot.

They'll wanna keep Ford around to rush the passer.

Yeah I agree. The injury history and the fact that Houston is just more versatile. If Ford had to reduce down from a 9 to 5 because of some formation shifts.. I just don't know if he can hold it. I also don't know what LB's are available in the draft. SAM needs to be able to at least carry vertical with a TE. I've heard Anthony Barr's name tossed around as a potential FA candidate.. but we will see. Should be fun to see what Spags does.

There were games last year, like at Denver, that could have easily been losses if they had just kept running the ball. Ford is a liability in that sense.

It just seems like a terrible gamble for a team that has legit Super Bowl aspirations.

Sure, but that's every year. There will be games they coulda shoulda woulda lost.

They definitely need to be better vs the run, but i'm guessing they feel the defensive change will help that a lot.

In the end, they're gonna need to get after the opposing QB and Ford is good at that.

I agree with whoever said it here that I don't think they like him that much in that they don't seem to be talking about a long term deal. Tag and let him walk in a year would be my guess.

They also know more about his health than we do, in regards to his back. Maybe it's fixed? I'm skeptical but who knows.

Everybody thought it was fixed in 2011 and he's had 2 back injuries and an additional surgery since then.

Back injuries don't just go away.

I don't have a problem with them tagging him, I just hope they find a trade partner. If they really want him on the team that bad, just freaking sign him and help the cap out this year. Tying up that much cap on Ford, when this team has so many needs, is dumb.

This draft is full of defensive players so if we could tag and trade Ford for a 1st and trade Houston for a high pick we would have the draft capital to start a complete defensive rebuild. I like our players now but they've had several opportunities to get it done in the playoffs and they haven't so I'm okay with starting the rebuild of the D now.

It's hard to keep Houston on a $22m cap hit when Vinny Curry and a draft pick could do the job at wide DE for a fraction of that. Speaks and Kpass can cover the 5tech DE. Tag and trade Ford for whatever draft capital you can get.

My thoughts on Houston are simple- I like the player but hate his cap hit. I think he is solid against both the run and pass. He has a leadership role on this team and I think the room respects him. In a perfect world he remains a Chief but we lower his cap hit.

No

This is better than Houston.

Let him go, franchise Ford.

I'm all for keeping Houston on the team this year. I would do what I could to try and restructure his deal obviously to get that cap hit down. If he doesn't want to restructure then I am probably trying to trade him this offseason, but I'm only doing it for the right price.Houston is a leader on the field and in the locker room and I don't want to lose that presence. After this year however, it's probably time to say goodbye.

However, I understand why many would want to cut Houston.

I think they were looking to the switch when they were drafting last year... DOD, Speaks, Nadi all seem better fits for the 4-3

Yep. Sure seems that way.

you're grammer is average

Teams see how to beat us now and that's with the run game. Ask yourself this, who plays the run better? If the other QB is content with handing the ball off or throwing into the flat, Ford is a liability.

A lot of limited thinking in this thread.

Things that aren't being considered:

1. You can't just say "replace Houston with a younger cheaper player who gives you close to the same production." WHO? Who the **** do you think this magical unicorn is? Do you really think there is a 4-3 rush DE who can set the edge, play the SAM, and rush the passer, who is an UFA and will cost less than the $14M cap savings you get by cutting Houston?

2. Extending Houston's deal can EASILY alleviate the cap burden, while assuring your best player on defense remains in a premier spot.

3. Between releasing Houston and letting Ford walk, I will take letting Ford walk. It: 1) saves more money. 2) has no dead cap hit. 3) will almost assuredly land at least a third round pick (either from tag and trade or from a comp pick).

What I would do with Houston is to work out an extension where his entire $21M salary in 2019 is fully guaranteed and converted to a signing bonus. Let's say he signed a three year extension, with a $24M signing bonus (converting his salary this year + $3M more). If it looked something like this:

2019: $3M salary, $6M salary cap prorated. (cap hit $9M, dead money $24M)
2020: $4M salary, $6M salary cap prorated (cap hit $10M, dead money dead money $18M)
2021: $7M salary, $6M salary cap prorated, $1M roster bonus (cap hit $14M, dead money $12)
2022: $9M salary, $6M salary cap prorated, $1M roster bonus (cap hit $16, dead money $6M)

That would be: an increase in money this year for him, lower the cap hit from $21M to $9M. It also virtually guarantees that he will be on the roster for two years, and then 2021 is your big decision year, where he is $14M to keep and $12M to cut. Basically, that would be his last year and you'd cut thim with a $6M dead cap penalty the next offseason, or Post-June 1, where it's $3M each season.

Getting Houston for an average of ~11 million a year is smart and makes sense for both sides. Unless Houston is like "**** you, cut me and I'll sign another HUGE deal." In that case, you have to try and trade him.

Dee Ford might be the most underrated player by this fanbase.

If not for his injuries concern, the guy showed he is a big time player last year.

He is a unanimous top 10 FA but going through this forum, you'd think he is a JAG.

If not for his injuries concern...you dismiss it like it's nothing.

He's been in the league for 6 years and finally put it together last year. After being hurt dozens of times in the past 10 years.

I'm not underrating Ford. I'm also not DEPENDING on a guy, and paying him more than $15M BASE SALARY for 2019, when he's never shown he's dependable.

If we didn't have Houston's and Berry's awful contracts on our salary cap I'd be all for keeping Ford no problem. Sometimes you have to move on though and I feel like under our circumstances this is the best option

Yep. We're already straddled with bad contracts for guys that have had problems staying healthy. Adding a 3rd player to that mix is too much money and too much risk. They can't keep them all.

You know what's funny about those Houston and Berry contracts? I remember clearly this fanbase telling Dorsey to pay them when they were asking for the moon. And here we are now.

Thank you for the correct spelling of ‘lose’. There seems to be an epidemic replacing it with ‘loose’ on Chiefsplanet.

He did seem to disappear late in the season though.

He’s not a JAG but most of us here see him for what he is; a one trick pony with a concerning injury history.

Now, granted, he’s really freaking good at his one trick (rushing the passer), but he’s a liability in the other phases.

You don’t sign that type of player to a major long term deal. You just don’t.

Yes, most wanted Berry and Houston re-signed, but we waited a year too long on each, as many have pointed out and did point out at the time. At least with Houston when you signed him to the big contract, you knew you were getting a complete player. He could rush the passer, set the edge against the run and occasionally drop into coverage (yeah, I know) if you needed him to. Houston’s repertoire affords him a lot of value, and potentially even more in the new 4-3 scheme.

Dee Ford? Not so much. I like him and he seems like a good dude, but time to move on. Tag and trade or let him walk. Either/or.

Stats don't tell the whole story but Ford's stats were not much different from Khalil Mack's. Slightly better in some categories. After his untimely offsides I don't think that this fan base will embrace Ford going forward so we should tag and trade. Considering what the Bears gave for Mack we should get at least a 1st round pick for Ford and possibly more. IMO for him and the Chiefs we should move on from Ford.

he needs to restructure....if not, he can go

Either he takes a pay cut or he's gone.

I believe one probably has to go, but no way in hell am I letting one walk. Houston can be traded, Ford should be tagged at least this year, then tagged and traded next year at minimum.

ABOUT 3 HOURS SOUTHEAST

it's a lexicon you looser n00b :D