That bone-the-red-witch-on-the-war table scene was definitely not in the book. Seemed like some HBO-inspired T&A to me. Hope they don't go the TrueBlood route and substitute story line for ass (not that nice ginger ass isn't good).

Why can I not remember who takes over the city guard after Janos in the book? I'm totally blanking...

Bywater.

Thank you! Man... I should really re-read those books. Maybe after Season 2.

There are some pretty strong hints about Stannis and Melisandre, so that didn't bother me so much. Still they are undoubtedly going the True Blood way by upping the T&A. They added a whore character that's not even in the book - which I don't really care for (wiping the jizm off the other girls face that was covering for her was pretty funny).
Overall, though I don't mind the changes and they seem to have the blessing of GRRM-who. Is actually writing an episode this season. For the most part they seem like the right changes that balances out the needs of the readers and non-readers.

Speaking of True Blood - my buddy from the Joplin, MO area got cast to play a character in the upcoming season. Can't stand that show, but I'll have to check it out. He's pretty good actor. Probably just a bit part so I can stop watching when gets killed off.

Tell your buddy to watch his ass. Everyone else will be.

Ha! Okay, I'll tell him. Here's his IMDB if you're interested. http://m.imdb.com/name/nm2028579/

Duh.

Where is Patchface!!! Who knows, who knows???? Oh, oh, oh...

No Moon Boy either... only Dontos.

HBO green-lights Season Three!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1400121.html

T&A is more PC than portraying people with disabilities I would guess. It would be tough to pull off Patchface in the show, and no Shireen. Stannis apparently has no children in the show. However, I think I did see Robert's bastard son with Stannis- but it's just my guess that it's him. I don't think they said his name.

Gendry shouldn't be anywhere near Stannis. He should be with Arya all the way beyond Harrenhal, and then part of the brotherhood without banners with Lord Baric.

There's more than one bastard son. This one is Edric Storm.

Correct, I was thinking of Edric not Gendry. Just couldn't think of his name off the top of my head.

I'm reading book 2 again right now. Interesting to see the parallels each week as they happen.

Not a big fan of making Bronn the captain of the gold cloaks. I don't feel like it would be in his character to accept that role...

That really bothered my coworker as well. He didn't think that Tywin would support Tyrion in that play either (outright getting rid of Slynt and appointing his own man).

I'm, personally, not bothered by it, but I'm at peace with the fact that they're going to have to make some significant changes to streamline the story as it progresses.

I didn't have a problem with it, it avoids yet another character but still conveys that Tyrion now controls the City Watch which is consistent with the book.

Exactly. I wasn't bothered at all. I actually liked it. And like, NewChief, I'm aware that changes have to be made. This one is fine.

Hilarious. Scene is from first season.

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Episode titles, for what they're worth:

201: The North Remembers
Written by David Benioff & D.B Weiss, directed by Alan Taylor
Airdate: 1 April 2012

202: The Night Lands
Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss, directed by Alan Taylor
Airdate: 8 April 2012

203: What is Dead May Never Die
Written by Bryan Cogman, directed by Alik Sakharov
Airdate: 15 April 2012

204: Garden of Bones
Written by Vanessa Taylor, directed by David Petrarca
Airdate: 22 April 2012

205: The Ghost of Harrenhal
Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss, directed by David Petrarca
Airdate: 29 April 2012

206: The Old Gods and the New
Written by Vanessa Taylor, directed by David Nutter
Airdate: 6 May 2012

207: A Man Without Honor
Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss, directed by David Nutter
Airdate: 13 May 2012

208: The Prince of Winterfell
Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss, directed by Alan Taylor
Airdate: 20 May 2012

209: Blackwater
Written by George R.R. Martin, directed by Neil Marshall
Airdate: 27 May 2012

210: Valar Morghulis
Written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss, directed by Alan Taylor
Airdate: 3 June 2012

Want!

The budget for this show is likely enormous, but they would really do themselves a favor in regards to the storytelling by upping the episodes to like 15 a season.

It will be better when they split book 3 into two seasons, or at least one and a half.

I know we're YEARS away and it's been talked to death... but I'm really interested to see how they handle Books 4 & 5 on screen.

True but one reason for hurrying the story along is the ages of the young actors. It's fine that they went older than the books, but it does give them less time. Jackie Gleason is already getting taller than I ever envisioned Joffrey being. By Season 3 he's going to look almost grown-up, which might make some of the story elements problematic.

I call bullshit. Margaery Tyrell would turn any gay man straight.

I'm only on season one but the two q_ueers were fast forwarded,
no one wants to witness that filth.

The differnces in the show from the book are becoming more pronounced now. I did like the scene where Theon makes his choice and burns the letter to Robb, the idiot. ANd Tyrion making the Small Council dance his dance was entertaining, as well. Didn't Pycelle actually get the snip job in the book?

http://media.screened.com/uploads/0/...r_01_super.jpg

BLAM Renly, you're no longer gay, nttiawwt.

I don't need Loras and Renly making out, but Margery Tyrell was excellent (and hot!), so that made up for it a little bit. I loved it when she asked him if he wanted her brother to get him started or if he wanted her to turn over so he could pretend she was Loras. Awesome!

They did a good job handling Tyrion's little game which could have been very confusing but wasn't. Pycell's beard being cut follows the book, as does his admission to being involved in John Arryn's death which is what started everything when Robert replaced him with Ned.

We are at the part where the Reed siblings would come in if they are going to, so I guess we'll find out in the next episode or two whether they will even have those characters. The conversation between Bran and Maester Luwin was almost word for word from the book.

Theon's part was also well done I thought. They covered a lot in a short time as far as understanding Theon. He really is stuck a bit between competing loyalties, and you can't blame him for siding with his family I guess, but his ultimate actions are still unforgivable.

Arya's part was good too, Yoren was great, killing a bunch of them after getting shot by the arrow.

The differences from the book are actually good to me. They advance the plot in the right way most of the time to remain consistent with the book, but they keep it interesting for me. But less guys kising, ick.

The trick photography and fixed perspectives they used for Brienne made her look at least 6" taller than she actually is. She looked ginormous.

I'd say the hard part is making her look bulky and masculine which they did well with her armor, her bow-legged walk, and that awful haircut. The actress is 6'3". Give hear some lifts and she'll tower above many actors.

That actress playing Brienne is pretty tall. I remember seeing her in heels in Dr Parnassus' Imaginarium. She looked gigantic then too, but hotter.

No they announced awhile back during the casting that the Reeds were not going to be in the show. Bran's companions will be Hodor and Osha. No clue what they intend to do with Rickon.

Episode 3 was great. Good mix of characters and action. Tyrion's "double coin" of Pycelle's whore had me busting up laughing. Dinkledge rocks. Also loved Caetlin's bit of acting with Renly. She's seeming more likable this season. Only little disappointed that Sansa was such a little snot to Shae. This is where I started liking Sansa more in the book. But I suppose it does make sense if they're setting up for certain future events.

I never started liking Sansa in the books. I think they're making her way more likeable in the series. I almost feel sorry for her, whereas I just wanted her to DIAF in the books. She was pretty shitty in the Shae scene, though.

Well, Sansa would have every reason to be rude to a strange girl in her room claiming to be a hand maiden but having no idea what to do. Very suspicious. She would asssume Cersei or Joffrey sent her to spy on her... or worse.

I'm 1/2way through the 3rd book, how long before there's more exposition/reveal on

Not having the Reeds ****s it all up. That's a huge mistake if they do that.

I agree

I like them, but I wouldn't say it's a huge mistake so much as a disappointment for me. They're not exactly vital characters and the latest books haven't done much to increase their importance the way I had imagined it would increase when I first read Clash.

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Agreed, they seem to go nowhere as characters in the end, especially if Bran basically becomes part of the weirwood trees like the other guy. Jojen is about to die, and Meera will be left pretty much on her own in the far far north. Kind of depressing really. Granted, that may change in future books, but from what we've seen so far, I could understand the decision to leave them out to save money on casting (this cast is already huge and getting huger) and to avoid having soooo many characters that audiences have to learn and care about, and to leave off a couple of sad character arcs.

Loved the interaction between Tyrion, Shagga and Bronn this week.

"There are no goats here, halfman!"

"Well, make do!"

Fantastic, and great, great work by Peter Dinklage.

I like the Reeds, but I think cutting them from the show was smart (just like making Bronn the captain of the city watch). It compacts the story and reduces the number of characters to keep track of, important things for TV. It also lets them lean even more heavily on Bran's "special nature" than Martin does. Which will be cool for that character's development.

Such a great scene! I really like getting to see more of the characters on screen that don't have POVs in the books. I love how Martin keeps planting that Margery is an expert player in the game of thrones; she knows so much more and appears to be more than she seems.The show is doing a great job of fleshing her out (no pun intended!) as well as Renly, Robb and Varis.

I think this scene along with Arya and Yoren, Sansa and Cersei at dinner and Varis's speech to Tyrion are among some of the strongest scenes in the series so far. This was a really great character episode. It set up a lot without feeling like exposition. It had a great pace and a wonderful sense of tension throughout. I don't think it ever got confusing or contrived.

Yeah, I loved how word for word that scene was. I was smiling from ear to ear. I'm not missing the Reeds at all. If they don't end up in this thing, I'll be fine with that cut.

I still hate the ****er. But showing the burning of the letter was a master stroke. Really helps add some sympathy to Theon. And he's gonna need as much as he can get moving forward. That shot of him burning the letter was so gorgeous. Just Theon and the letter surrounded by complete, blackness. This show doesn't get enough credit for being pretty. I'd hang that scene in a frame on my wall.

I already miss Yoren. That's one thing about the show that sucks, I have to watch these people die all over again. Boo! Also, in the book, I can't remember, does Yoren tell Arya about saying his brother's name every night before bed? Does he give her that idea? I didn't recall that in the book and that blew my mind last night. I thought that was a wonderful way to take something internal and make it external. And it's a great way to sort of honor Yoren as well. Just awesome.

Agreed.

Yoren does not tell Arya that in the book, and their relatiosnship was not as close seeming as the on-screen relationship. In the book, he whips her legs so hard with the side of his sword after she beats up Lommy or Hot Pie (I forget which) that she bleeds. He doesn't listen to her when she says they should not stay at the keep, and she's too scared of him to really argue further, then he dies. The name prayer of people she wants dead is not Yoren's idea, she just starts doing it so she won't forget them.

I like the show Yoren much better, and their relationship was better. I liked him telling her about the names and thought that worked well to explain why she does it because otherwise, since she does it alone, she'd have to talk to herself or something. She may do that anyway, but it will give it a little more impact, especially when she does it even after Yoren told her how it drove him crazy and then caused him to have to run to the wall.

Exactly. I loved the device. I didn't think Yoren did that in the book. But it was a brilliant way to take something that is revealed internally in the book and make it an external conversation. Great writing. Great device.

I'd kinda forgotten how big of dick Yoren is in the books. Or rather, how tough he is on Arya.

After finishing the first 2 books, I've concluded I only want Jon and Arya to live. The rest can die, especially Sansa. I was tired of her character halfway through A Game of Thrones.

Does anyone think it may be foreshadowing that all of the Starks, even Jon, have POV chapters except Robb and Rickon? Robb is not a POV because none of the kings in the story have ever been POV's. Rickon may just be too young for one, or perhaps he has not had a POV because he is the one destined to be king?

Sansa grew on me a little as the books went on. Still not my favorite, but something tells me she's going to be a major player, and her character does develop some. Plus even though her personality can be annoying because she's so uppity (especially on the show) she has been put in a pretty tough situation throughout.

Oh, my! We all might be dissappointed on this number.

I personally think Sansa is a great character. She is strong and tough like her mother, and endures a lot of crap while keeping her composure most of the time. Sure it's fun to see a character that refuses to put on any pretext (or perhaps isn't capable of doing so) like Arya, but I respect Sansa's choice of honoring her family by staying a noble lady in all occassions regardless of how insanely horrible they are. In Clash, she single handedly saves Dontos' life... and later she is a big part of the BEST event to happen yet in a Song of Ice and Fire, IMO. Okay...maybe she isn't more than a vessel in that event, but the way it all works out and the way the "mastermind," is revealed afterward was the most jawdropping moment in the entire series for me. BTW - If she pulls off the marriage that's brewing in the latest books, then she and her new husband may just become significant players in the "game." I definitely hope Sansa doesn't die, but I know I may be in the minority with that opinion.

All that said, I hope to see Jon and Ayra alive in the next books as well, and for good reason, I'm really not getting my hopes up for that.

When I was reading the books, Tyrion was the one character that I didn't want to see die. However, if he were to die with most perfect heroic death- (thinking of that "perfect moment to die" that Walter White talks about in Breaking Bad)... it's already come and gone. I don't want to spoil everything (even if this is the Spoiler thread), but there was a moment in the books where I would have been totally fine with Tyrion dying, but alas... he lived! Now, he may end up in a totally depressing way instead. But who knows...

Not sure if I care whether Sansa lives or dies...but her storyline is very intriguing, and I am very interested in seeing where it goes in the next book.

I think you've got the right idea about the POV's as it pertains to Rob, but when it comes to Rickon... I honestly have no clue. He's the one question mark that we've had very little answers about. I was hoping he'd have come into play with the Onion Knight already, but alas... no.

I don't understand the dislike for Sansa. IMHO she is one of the strongest and most pitiable characters in the entire storyline. A noble daughter raised in a strong house suddenly having her world swept from beneath her feet. She finds herself fatherless, unprotected, held captive to a cruel and bitter boy/king and the machinations of his evil mother.
I root for Sansa and want to see her come out on top.

Initially, I disliked Sansa because she was a whiny, entitled brat. And because I love Arya so much that I saw Sansa through Arya's eyes a little bit. Then Sansa has to endure so much. She grows up pretty quickly and I greatly sympathize with her as the story advances. Now she's one of the characters I root for. For sure. But it took a bit to get me there.

So if this is a spoiler thread, may I post something about what I read about? (err, in the song of fire and ice wiki)

EDIT - Just read Keg's initial post but still wanted to make sure it's cool

I don't see why not. You can always use a spoiler tag if you're really all that worried about it. But we have the spoiler-free thread for those who have not read the books and don't want to be spoiled. Pretty much everyone here either doesn't care, or has read all the books.

Ok cool, thank you - so I read through a lot of the fire and ice wiki (I know, but I didn't want to buy the books lol) I absorbed a lot but not as much obviously as you all have. Basically I earmarked all the characters and what I found out, and correct me if i'm wrong, was that basically all the Starks die (except Sansa and Arya and the Jon) and all the Lannister's live, except Joffrey - that about right? That sucks for them, lol here I thought they were the end all Good guys that would come charging back but NOT! I was so hoping for some perceived justice in the form of gruesome deaths :(
I'm very interested to see how the show maybe changes some of the outcomes, if they do, and the battles are supposed to be epic...can't wait :) Although I have to say after this, I am going to get the books, reading what everyone has posted I am very interested in the whole story now.

Right now, as of end of book 5, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon are for sure alive, and Jon is stabbed and could be alive or dead, only GRRM knows. Catelyn is a zombie in that she died and came back as lady stoneheart to take vengenace on all Freys. Ned is dead. Robb is dead.

So still lots of Starks around to come back and kick some ass. In fact, i believe that book 7 was rumored at one point to be titled "A Time for Wolves" so hopefully the Starks win in the end. Nothing is sure with GRRM though.

****! I knew I shouldn't have gone in the spoiler thread.

I've been defending Sansa for as long as I've been entering the GOT threads.

It may have something to do with the fact that the television character is about 4 or 5 years older than the book character. Sansa is 11 in the book. So when you see her as a fairly passive figure and oftentimes very programmed and naive, you have to remember she was written as an 11 year old. HBO has stayed very faithful to the source material...except for the age. So you see someone that appears to be about 16/17 years old acting as an 11 year old would and it frustrates you.

Well it's not Sansa's fault, really - it's HBOs.

I think the book readers tend to defend her a little more because they have a better perspective on her behavior.

HBO aged up all the kid characters a bit, which frankly they needed to do and GRRM himself has said he would do if he could start over. The stuff Arya and Bran do is not really believable for their ages, so you had to play them older. Dany is 14 when the book starts, but that obviously wouldn't work on the show given her sex scenes. Robb is 15 or 16, Theon is 18 or 19, and Jon is about 14 or 15, all of those are too young for what they do. GRRM missed the mark on ages in the books. The show ages for the actors and actresses work much better and are much more believable.

Haha, yeah, bad idea! Didn;t you read the OP first?

Good take.

I was actually pre-disposed to dislike Sansa because of the books. Much like Dany, I basically dreaded her PoV chapters. GRRM does develop her story well, but I just have a hard time caring about what's going on with her. I actually like both her and Dany more on TV than I do in the books.

I'm with you. The series has made Sansa much more sympathetic to me. Theon as well, though I never had the whole visceral 'he's an asshole' reaction that so many seemed to have halfway through book 1. Going back, I can see how people got that perception of him, though, and I'm glad that the series has tried to more fully show the quandary that he faces: blood vs. "family."

And yes... he's a cur. But imagine if it were a Stark that were fostering with say, the Lannisters, and managed to come back and take Casterly Rock from them, beheading Lannister dogs the whole way. How would we feel? That's a testament to GRRM's writing ability, imo.

Yeah, there is definitely that progression that I went through where I became sympathetic toward Sansa, and maybe a little less thrilled with how Arya turned out. Both are still great characters and the fact that they've both developed in different ways just shows how talented GRRM is.

Am I the only who thinks that Arya Crow-killer & Sam the Slayer have become the characters that other important characters "bump" into when needed? It seems like we'll get a big build up for these characters who are about cross paths and then they pretty much just pass by with only indirect contact (aside from Sam and Bran- which was cool. How many Stark siblings has Sam met so far?)

Arya - for me - is still far and away the most interesting character in this story. I love how her story is playing out. Zero complaints about Arya.

I hope we get some sort of reconciliation between Arya and Sansa, however. Something that shows each other how they each have grown. Could be cool.

I just want Arya and Nymeria to meet back up. Those two together would be kickass. Dragons in the air, wolves on the ground.

That would be great if it was the title for the seventh book. I thought the next two were going to be titled "Winds of Winter" for book six (I think that's set in stone) and "A Promise of Spring" for book seven.

GRRM changed it. At one point he said it would be called a Time for Wolves, then he decided to call it a Promise of Spring or a Hope for Spring, or something like that. I'm just hoping that the fact he thought about calling it a Time for Wolves in the first place is an indication of where the plot will ultimately go and who will win out in the end. I have no doubt not all my favorite characters will survive, but hopefully a couple of Starks will and will kick some ass! Arya and Jon are my preference, so Sansa and Rickon will probably be the ones. Not sure how the heck Bran will play into it.

Chills.

A Time For Wolves is a better title on paper, I think. Of course, I won't know for sure until I've read the book.

I imagine Arya will live. I'm just not sure what role she'll play in the grand scheme. And I'm not sure her family will know that she survived. I'm so curious to see where she goes.

Rickon is such a wildcard. Something big has to happen with him soon. Every other remaining Stark has big things going on. Rickon... I'm losing interest.

Rickon is going to be interesting. He was already wild as evidenced by his wolf's personality, and then he gets taken to a wild place by Osha the wildling and is basically being raised by her. He is going to be a wildcard in this game! Interactions between him and Davos should be fun.

F*** Reek II.

Man, it's been too long. How do we know Davos is meeting up with Rickon? I only have a vague recollection.

He's back for season 2...

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In book 5, Davos goes to Lord Manderly who was a Stark bannerman to try to get his support for Stannis now that Robb is dead (and Bran and Rickon are still thought to have been killed by Theon). Lord Manderly has a bunch of evil Freys in his court and is publicly siding with the Lannisters as a turncoat like the Freys and Boltons. Manderly tells Davos in front of the Freys that he is dead, then puts a fake Davos head on a spike for all to see, thus everyone thinks Davos is dead and Manderly is now on the side of the Lannisters and Freys and Boltons.

But Manderly secretly tells Davos that Wex (a mute servant boy from Winterfell) survived the Winterfell massacre and saw Bran head north and Rickon head wherever he went, so Wex followed Rickon and then reported to Manderly. Manderly tells Dsavos that if Stannis saves Rickon, he can unite the North behind a surviving male Stark to defeat the Lannister/Freys who all loyal Stark loving northmen really hate. He sends Davos off with a ship to go find and bring back Rickon. That's all we know at this point.

The book does not say where Rickon is, but in typical GRRM fashion he included some subtle hints that seem to indicate he and Osha went to the island of Skagos (which is supposedly a very wild place with strange creatures and people which fits in with all the "wild" that surrounds Rickon). Skagos is off the far northeastern coast of Westeros near the Wall. For those interested, here is a link to a cool map of Westeros I saw recently on another site.

http://www.fanboy.com/wp-content/upl...7/Westeros.jpg

That's right! Thank you. I remembered about fake, dead Davos. But I was having a really hard time remembering that Manderly send Davos in search of Rickon to unite the North.

There is just so much going on in these books. I'm going to need to re-read them all before 6 comes out.

Wow, I really wondered how they'd handle that last scene. Pretty much straight from the books.