What's wrong with Mecole Hardman - Part 2
 

Spoiler alert!

Nothing is wrong with him! Unless you consider Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce as being a problem.

Mecole was 3rd on the team in targets (62), rec yards (560), and rec TDs (4). Those stats are right in line with any other teams 3rd most productive receiver and none of those other teams had 2 guys that were 1st team AP in front of that guy.

Green Bay Packers #1 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Robert Tonyan - 59 targets, 52 rec, 586 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 212
Rec - 148
Yards - 2064

Buffalo Bills #2 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Gabriel Davis - 62 targets, 35 rec, 599 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 273
Rec - 209
Yards - 2502

Tampa Bay Buccaneers #3 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Rob Gronkowski - 77 targets, 45 rec, 623 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 193
Rec - 135
Yards - 1846

Tennessee Titans #4 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jonnu Smith - 65 targets, 41 rec, 448 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 198
Rec - 135
Yards - 2059

New Orleans Saints #5 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jared Cook - 60 targets, 37 rec, 504 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 189
Rec - 144
Yards - 1482

Baltimore Ravens #7 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Willie Snead - 48 targets, 33 rec, 432 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 188
Rec - 116
Yards - 1470

Seattle Seahawks #8 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
David Moore - 47 targets, 35 rec, 417 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 261
Rec - 183
Yards - 2357

Indianapolis Colts #9 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Michael Pittman Jr. - 61 targets, 40 rec, 503 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 164
Rec - 99
Yards - 1391

Las Vegas Raiders #10 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Hunter Renfrow - 77 targets, 56 rec, 656 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 227
Rec - 155
Yards - 2092

Average for top 10 scoring offense's 3rd most productive receiving option :

Targets - 62
Receptions - 41
Yards - 530

Average for top 10 scoring offense's top 2 most productive receiving options combined :

Targets - 212
Receptions - 147
Yards - 1918


This is how Hardman stacks up against the other teams 3rd receiving option

Targets - 62 (62 avg)
Receptions - 41 (41 avg)
Yards - 560 (530 avg)

Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce combined

Targets - 280 (most in group)
Receptions - 192 (2nd most in group)
Yards - 2692 (most in group)

So what we can see from these stats above is that nothing is up with Mecole Hardman. His targets and reception matched the average of the 9 other top offenses 3rd receiving option and he was above average in yards, but the big huge difference is Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill just happen to be on the same team as him. Those two have 68 more combined targets, 45 more combined receptions, and 774 more combined yards than the others teams top 2 receiving threats.

TLDR;

Nothing is wrong, he's right in line with the other teams 3rd most productive pass catchers. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are monsters and the best pass catching duo in a long ass time.

PS:

Seriously Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are so good! There was only 11 QBs with more TD passes than those 2 had receiving TDs.

PSS:

****ing Cam Newton started 15 games and had 45 less passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards in the same amount of games!

PSSS:

****ing MVP Lamar had 65 more passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards and they tied for the same amount of passing TDs to receiving TDs.

You put a lot of effort into this and for that, I appreciate you.

Thank you for collecting these stats. Mecole stacks up well with them.

However, stats don't always tell the whole story, IMHO. How many drops or misplays? Now, what is the context of those drops? On 1st and 10? or on 3rd and 10? Or on 4th and 10? How many plays where you don't look back at the qb, who is scrambling for his life and counting on you to make a catch? These are the things that would be hard/impossible to quantify, but they are very maddening for the fanbase, and cause us to say things about his receiving abilities that his pure stats don't show. Again, IMHO

Andre Johnson led the league in drop passes a couple times.

Ratio

I think most peoples frustration with Mecole is him getting chewed on by Mahomes after a third and medium when the other two were double teamed, and Hardman usaully doesnt look for the ball or looks too late or just keeps streaking down the sideline instead of sitting down between zones.

All this reveals is you shouldn't judge a player on the box score.

How many TDs for all those receivers?

How many drops for all?

Fumbles?

You did a great analysis, about 90-95% worth. Nice job.

It's #17's fault & not because I warshed my lucky jersey. Uhmmm nachos

This is just like when Saints players try to convince themselves Taysom Hill isn't a gadget player by just posting his stats with no context

Nothing is wrong with him except being the dumbest football IQ on the field at any given time.

I haven't given up on hardman becoming a useful receiving threat.

For one thing, he came into the league at 21. Which means last year was his age 22 season, and his age 22 season actually stacks up pretty well vs. Tyreek HIll's first year.

Second, Hardman didn't have a normal offseason program in which to develop his receiving skills between his 1st and second years. Expecting a Hill-like leap in receiving skills was never realistic.

However, beyond the numbers, Hardman doesn't show that ball tracking ability and the capacity to get out of breaks that Hill showed at the end of his rookie year.

What I hope is that Hardman can get smarter this offseason through film study about breaking off routes and finding soft areas in zones. Adding those to his game would make him vastly more useful and turn him into a viable no. 3 threat with big play upside.


Will he? Who knows, and I don't think you can bank on it. But, I don't think it's impossible.

He sucks.

thanks for clarifying that. I wonder if you can get a comment off the record from Patrick?

What's wrong?

Dude was always a project.

For the love of God this franchise needs to stop drafting projects in the 2nd rd.

This. I don't see it with him.

To be fair, you say that about pretty much everybody.

It appears he does not take his craft seriously enough. He is still running the wrong routes or routes incorrectly.
He is an example of where they tried to reach for a position that they thought might be a need, Tyreek, but it was not. Again they saw that Tyreek learned and how good he has become. Hardman has not shown any of that same ability.

In what way is it the same, because I'm trying to find a way to make Taysom Hill look like more than a gadget player with his stats and I'm having an extremely hard time.

He's a WR/QB that has put up over the course of 53 games these stats:

Rec yds - 336
Rec tds - 7
Rush yds - 809
Rush tds - 11
Pass yds - 1047
Pass tds - 4
Pass ints - 3

Other than flukey TD numbers there isn't much to work with.

You ****ing people expect too much from a 2nd year WR who didn't even get an off-season going into his 2nd year. Whining because he's not Tyreek Hill is literally going to leave you disappointed, because there is only one of those in existence.

Posters bringing up how we should have drafted DK Metcalf in the other thread are pretty much brain dead. DK Metcalf would have stats comparable to Hardman's if he was on this team. Hell swap the two and Hardman would look like DK, because hed be on a team with an elite QB whose only weapon is Tyler ****ing Lockett. We'd have people whining that we should have drafted Hardman over DK.

You mean like...

Tanoh Kpassagnon
Breeland Speaks
Mecole Hardman

Better watch out for staylor26 & dlphg9 when criticizing these guys. I know that staylor26 likes the taste of Hardman's cum or Hardman gives a helluva reach around. I think dlphg9 has a hardon for Mecole's cock too.

They should just wait for him after his shift at McDonald's ends in a couple of years. He will fill their man pussies to the max.

I think Reid looks for his second speed receiver to have a certain type to him ie - Jeremy Maclin, Chris Conley, and now Mecole Hardman. Mecole seems like a guy who wants to be the number 1 receiver for a team but he clearly isn't. With Conley and Maclin, I always felt like they had a better understanding of what their role was with the team.

LMAO you really think that? Metcalf improved from his rookie year and became one of the better WRs in the league. Hardman got worse and if not for the jet sweeps and pitch passes Reid draws up he'd look even worse.

My definition of a gadget player is a player who doesn't fit in the natural flow of the offense. A player who the coach has to draw up plays for them specifically because otherwise they won't get open or won't do the right things when it comes to reading defenses and running correct routes. That's Hardman to a tee. If he could get open naturally and could be a reliable WR, he would have been in the starting lineup when Watkins got hurt and he wouldn't be just the jet sweeps, pitch guy.

But yeah sure. Hardman could be a 1300 yard 10 TD WR like Metcalf but the coaches just choose not to utilize him and they give more snaps and targets to Robinson and Watkins just for shits and giggles. Yeah keep telling yourself that.

No one in the Chiefs organization thought that MH would turn into Tyreek. Some franchises have never drafted a WR as good as Tyreek. Everyone wants to act like Mecole has Tyreek's speed, but it's not even close. Tyreek ran the 2nd fastest 200m race by a high schooler ever. He almost certainly would have been able to qualify for the Olympics.

Yet they drafted Mecole as a just in case when Reek was in trouble.

This just supports my opinion that spending a high draft pick on a WR when you already have to get the ball to Hill, Kelce, Hardman, and CEH, is not wise. Not enough balls to go around.

You think Metcalf is getting 100+ targets here like he is in Seattle? The situations that both players came into aren't even close. Mecole came into the league with Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, and Sammy Watkins ahead of him. Sure Sammy is injury prone like a mofo, but you can't deny he's talented as hell and the Chiefs made it clear that they believed he was a big time WR.

DK Metcalf was drafted onto a team that only had one other option, Tyler Lockett. The next best target is a TE who had a career year in 2019 with 349 yards.

To say Mecole didn't take a step forward is stupid as ****. He was 100% a gimmick player in 2019. He had 6 TDs and 538 yards on 26 receptions. This is gimmicky:

Scoring a TD nearly 25% of your receptions
20.7 yards per catch (Tyreek Hill's best ypc in a season is 17.0 and in that year he only scored on 14% of his catches)

Mecole increased his

Targets - 34%
Receptions - 37%
Catch rate - 3%
Yards - 4%

It just doesn't seem like he improved because his yards didn't take a dramatic increase and his TDs went down. That's due to him not just running down the field and catching bombs for TDs. He was gimmicky in 2019, the numbers prove that. 2020 numbers show an improvement.

I'm not an expert at watching WRs run routes and I'm not going to pretend to know more about something than I do. So, what I will do is look at and compare stats because I can tell something from those.

If someone wants to show me how he's declined or not progressed I'd be open to it. Lots of people on here like to act like they know a lot more than they do.

No I don't think Metcalf would get all those receptions. What I do know is that he would start and be great when Watkins went down. I do know that when teams double Kelce and Hill, he'd be a great 3rd option. What I do know is that he'd take a lot of snaps and targets and receptions away from Robinson. Seriously, Robinson had more targets and receptions than Hardman. If not for the pitch plays which I will say Hardman is really good for, robinson might have had more yards and the same number of touchdowns.

And I don't know how you don't think Hardman was better in 2019. His efficiency was nuts that year. He had basically the same number of yards and less touchdowns despite 20 more targets and receptions this year. That's not an upgrade.

I can't believe you think Hardman would be capable of 1300 yards 10 TDs and yet the coaches give more snaps to Robinson. Lol what sense does that make?

People keep saying this, but I'm pretty sure the organization knew that Hill would be fine. They had all the info available and did there own investigation. The Chiefs have shown they want to give Mahomes weapons. They knew they had big contracts coming up, Sammy and Demarcus weren't expected to stay around, and they didn't want to be caught with their pants down. Mecole was drafted because they wanted to keep supplying Mahomes with weapons. They weren't going to replace Hill with a rookie that had 500 yards receiving his last year in college, because he was fast.

This offense runs at peak when there is a good #2 WR and a good OL.

Imo Hardman wouldn’t even be in the league if he just had average speed.

Besides being fast, what else does he excel at?

I am still holding out hope for Pringle to open a can of.....
Cheetah likes him at that spot

:facepalm:

Saying hardman and dk are interchangeable is a joke.

Dk has way more physical talent, size, ball tracking ability and ability to catch contested passes.

Hardman may be quicker in and out of breaks, but thats probably one of the only things he does better than metcalf.

If we had dk, we would have two legit number 1 receivers and the best TE in the game.

Let’s see how Hardman does after a real offseason and learning before we call him a bust.

Wasn't he the one that lined up in the neutral zone on the field goal?

Game was 10-3 at that time. They take the points off the board and make it 14-3 with a TD instead. Big moment in the game.

He's got good stats and he's on the perfect team to maximize his talent.

But his mental mistakes just kinda negate a lot of that progress.

This.

Look beyond the stats. Sure, his numbers are alright for a #3 or #4 option on the team.

Just look at his most recent game. It's pretty damn obvious the team had no faith in him catching punts. He's more likely to fumble the punt, fair catch it at the 5 yard line, or try and return when he should fair catch and get blown up than actually do something positive.

On offense he still is little more than a gadget player. He had a good game or two during the year, but in the Super Bowl he was absolutely lost. He hasn't been on the same page all year with Mahomes. That's on Hardman, not Mahomes.

Any of Metcalf, Diontae Johnson, or McLaurin would all be getting talked about as a good option for the #2 spot this year if they hadn't already locked it down. Hardman will possibly never be anything better than a #3 receiver and gadget player.

It's not the end of the world, but let's not try to make Hardman out to be more than he is. There were multiple better receivers available, not just Metcalf.

Hardman is a moron...fast but a moron.

McLaurin is literally the definition of #1 WR by default.

McLaurin wouldn't have come close to that kind of production in KC, sitting in the pecking order behind everybody else.

He is what he is. A decent #2-3 WR.

He will never be a star. Not every guy can be a star at the NFL level.

I’m ok with him for now.

Yeah I subscribe to this. He's just kinda stupid, and it shows on the field.

I don't disagree. I know none of these other guys would be necessarily putting up the same stats here. But they all also have seemingly shown growth and as far as I know aren't making the same boneheaded mistakes almost 40 games into their NFL careers.

The way I phrased it is that each of them would probably have fans and coaches comfortable that they had the #2 receiver position locked down heading into 2021. As it is we're more likely to see Robinson, Watkins, Pringle, a rookie, or a FA line up at the #2 spot than Hardman in 2021.

The thing is, put Hardman in McLaurin's situation and McLaurin in KC and we might be having this conversation in reverse.

You can't just look at things in a vacuum. Hardman's development may be hindered by the team dynamic itself. We just don't know.

A lot of conjecture there. Sure, there are a lot of unknown variables. What I can comfortably say is that KC has seemed to draft several receivers in recent years that simply aren't smart football players. Hardman is not an intelligent football player. Demarcus Robinson constantly makes mental errors on the field. I don't know if it's the receivers coach or just bad luck, but aside from Tyreek Hill we haven't seen a whole lot of growth and development from our receivers.

Which suggests there might be something about the system that is an issue and not just Mecole Hardman. See what I'm getting at?

I do see what you're saying, but the system isn't changing. There has to be more cerebral players available. It's not surprising that an incredibly young receiver without much history or experience at WR is still not showing much growth. I'd prefer in the future we place an emphasis on receivers with proven route running ability, at least when you're drafting in the first few rounds.

Remember when we drafted him and I said it was a big mistake based on who else was available and that he was just a fast guy who played football. Yeah I member. You guys jumped down my throat because I didn't pump out the pure positivity that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

You could also argue that McLaurins development was hampered by being drafted to a dog shit team.

I don't believe for a second Hardman would be better in another offense than he is here. It's not like his play isn't popping off the page just because he shares the field with Hill and Kelce. It's because he makes the worst kind of mental mistakes and because it really seems like him and Mahomes are nowhere on the same page. It's also that most of his best players are plays where Reid draws up a play just for him rather than him running a route and being open organically because he read the defense right and made the right option or because he flat out beat the corner. That's the difference between him and someone like McLaurin. McLaurin just flat out beats corners, he doesn't need the OC to run a pitch play or screen in order to get success out of him.

It's because outside of Hardman, we really haven't invested a high pick on WRs. And even with Hardman he was a project. So I don't think it's the system, it's that we're trying to insert projects and low round WRs in the system and praying it works out.

Well, that's still the "process" not the player.

The Chiefs were trying too hard to draft a Tyreek Hill-type player with Hardman when they thought at the time Tyreek's NFL future was in doubt.

Thank God the Chiefs never had to ultimately deal with the scenario of having to replace Tyreek with Hardman.

That would have been a major disaster...that's why you don't draft like that. Veach blew that pick because he was doing it out of desperation.

Yeah, I get it.

I didn't say I believe it either. I just don't think we can know.

The Hardman situation is what it is and I personally put at least some of the blame on the team and the situation he's been put in. That being said, he hasn't developed and a lot of that is on him.

Next year is year 3. For WR's, especially in Reid's offense, that's the magic year. If he doesn't bust out this year, he's likely playing out his rookie contract and moving on. So we'll know sooner rather than later I believe.

The team knew he wasn't going to be charged and they knew that the secretly recorded audio was a big pile of nothing when it came to criminal charges. They suspended Hill due to the video, because it was April and absolutely no harm would come from suspending him for a short period of time in the off-season and they knew the SJW dbags would be up in arms. They had to settle that uproar.

The team knew that Hill was in the clear and would be available for almost every game at the very least. They were also able to save a bunch of money with this happening. Mecole was drafted to keep Mahomes supplied with talent. Hell they had to figure we were losing all of our WRs that that contributed, besides Hill. If all would have went like they thought it would, then

Conley, who started 13 games in 2018 was gone

Demarcus Robinson was a FA after 2019 and was likely gone

Sammy Watkins was going to either be released in 2019 or take a pay cut and play for us 1 more year after that, but he'd be gone after 2020.

So Veach and the boys were looking at the future of our receiving corps and saw Tyreek Hill as the only legitimate WR on the roster after the 2020 season. Veach has made it incredibly clear that he wants Pat to have weapons around him. Veach also knows that money is going to be incredibly tight with a ton of big contracts/extensions coming up within the next 2 years.

That off-season

Frank Clark just signed for $100 mil
Tyreek Hill was gonna get a decent contract extension

The next off-season we were gonna see some huge extensions

Patrick Mahomes
Travis Kelce
Chris Jones

So no damn money to sign any WRs, so how else could we possibly fill those needs with basically no extra cap room? Through the draft. He drafts Hardman as a project that will develop and learn behind Hill, Watkins, and Kelce for a full year or 2 under the right circumstance.

How does this scenario sound less realistic than Veach panicked and picked Hardmans out of fear and convinced himself that he was going to replace 1500 yds 12 tds with a guy that had only been playing WR for 2 years?

Veach is clearly very good at having a plan and sticking to it, but what Veach didn't plan for was COVID taking away Hardman's 2nd off-season of camps. I'd say that 2nd year is when the players learn the most, because I bet the first year is pretty hectic and stressful for a lot of guys, but a lot of guys were screwed out of that. I'd bet that slowed the development of a project guy like Hardman, a guy that was a QB throughout HS, then a FB his freshmen season in college. He was only a WR for 2 years of his life and was then drafted to play against the best players in the world.

Just because he’s not a star doesn’t mean he was a bad draft choice. He’s not a bust.

Hes not, but I'd also rather have someone who doesn't make as many mental mistakes as he does. Especially in big moments. Doesn't matter if he's only known the position for a few years, doesn't matter if he lost a training camp.

Having a good third option would help counter the double teams.

He needs to spend this off season training with tyreek and improving his hands, routes and reads. He could be a Welker and tear up the middle. If Patrick is running, go to the opening.

He won't see a second contract from us unless he improves.

Still optimistic though.

I really want to trade up to ten and grab that top te this year.

He still hasn't learned to keep running and he goes down fast on first contact. Obviously he's not playing up to his potential. But I definitely think he'll grow as a player and get better. Disappointing to think we could had DK Metcalf.

Tyrann Mathieu believes Mecole Hardman is ‘hungrier than he’s ever been’
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2021/...-hes-ever-been



Yeah **** the haters. He seeks out Tyrann to make himself a better football player.

I think he's going have his best season yet and really give us a show with what he can do with his speed and help get Tyreek open because how they going cover them and Travis?

Think all you want it still ain’t coming true

This is ****ing dumb. The guy has been playing the WR position for just a few years and has a ton of upside.

I know this is news for some of you, but some draft picks take time and development to reach their potential, and it’s not like he hasn’t flashed and made plenty of plays his first 2 years.

Maybe give the guy a full/normal offseason before you completely give up on him? Not everybody is Tyreek Hill.

ROFL


Tell that to Tyrann Mathieu I'll take his opinion and Braught Peach over yours any day.

Yeah I'm surprised a player said positive things about a teammate in an interview. Crazy.

That isn’t your stereotypical “he looks great” type of player speak. He was very specific with his praise and I don’t see any reason to believe he’s not being genuine here.

Will it translate? We shall see, but it does sound like Hardman is locked in and hungry.

Also...

Ugh. He's dropping passes and running the wrong routes again. But it's great that he's doing it with a sunnier disposition rather than hiding under a jacket on the bench like in the AFCCG.

(Fwiw - I like Hardman and am really pulling for him.)

“Mistakes” doesn’t necessarily mean “running the wrong routes”.

Guys make mistakes in practice. That’s what practice is for.

Did you read? This isn’t about “getting instruction”? Tyrann is talking about Mecole wanting to go against him in practice.

As former president Bill Clinton once said...

"There is nothing wrong with Mecole Hardman, that can't be fixed by whats right with Mecole Hardman"

Derp. That's what I get for reading while driving. I read it as "after each practice.."

The interview from Tyrann is really promising honestly. Clearly he sees an opportunity to become a better player and is taking advantage of it. Hope it translates on the field.

Keep in mind this im saying this as someone who believes Mecole is as dumb as a doornail. I'd love to be wrong about that.

Lol honestly, I thought the same thing before I actually read it.

Probably because Rasputin said “he seeks out Tyrann to make himself a better football player”. That can be interpreted both ways.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/o...or-contenders/

One player from each NFL division set for 2021 breakout: Eight potential difference-makers for contenders

AFC West – Mecole Hardman, WR, Kansas City

You can't teach speed, but you can work on your hands and consistency. And I am betting that the 2019 second-round pick is ready to seize the opportunity provided by the exodus of Sammy Watkins. Can be become the Robin to Tyreek Hill's Batman? He came into the league raw, but Year Three can be when many a WR takes a turn for the better and starts to figure out what it takes to succeed in the NFL.

It's a great staff and the best quarterback on the planet and a master play-caller, which all work with him. I suspect it brings out more of Hardman than we have seen before the find his way into a greater timeshare of the snaps and targets in this voluminous offense. He can take a step up from one-trick-pony "speed guy" to a more reliable receiver.

I just love this

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PiJS-Oeh8mg" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Perhaps Hardman heard some of the "catch the ball and run your routes" chatter.





What I'm saying is, we did it guys.

2019 Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NxfCvCB_Gs

2020 Highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7RK-Qd38m0

In case anyone forgot how explosive this guy is.

I think the kid will be fine.

I think last year was weird with no OTA's and weird camp, and it slowed his progress.

Not only that but we played with a makeshift line much of the season and we were really ****ed for the Super Bowl when Eric Fisher went down just the quarter before so that had to affect timing and mojo for our high octane offense.

Now we speak Covid out of existence and the chiefs into a dynasty!

I think he's a decent WR3. I reckon he'll take a step forward this year but I don't expect to get a great deal more from him than we're seeing.

He's not a bust but you'd hope for more from a 2nd round pick, he's definitely not developed into a replacement WR2 for Watkins. I doubt anyone would pick him ahead of Metcalf or McLaurin if they had the pick again.

I am a fan.

How do you know this? Going into his third year and this year he is putting it on himself to take on the best defensive back we got and one of the best in the NFL. So how can you say he isn't going develop and take the WR2 by the horns?

We also got some pretty damn good coaches and I just don't see him not taking it up a notch and doing more than he has showed us so far. He is a very viable candidate for WR2 and open this offence wide open. I can be wrong and maybe it's just pure hope I'm right but I do think he is going step it up in a big way this year with determination and hunger to do so and that's what Tyrann said he has this year.