Chris Simms: Tyreek Hill #1 WR in the NFL
 

LMAO at all the Packers fans crying because Davante Adams didn't make his top 10. Video marked at Tyreek Hill discussion.

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I have to admit, Adams not being in the top 10 is pretty bad. He’s really ****ing good.

If Reek isn’t #1, he’s absolutely top 3.

Really glad the Chiefs didn’t cut him.

Chris bases his stuff off film. He's a film junky. When i watch Adams i don't see anything particularly special either. I see another Big-bodied receiver that has to win contested catches because he doesn't separate well.

You can watch catches by Adams and go, "Tyreek Hill houses that one" "OBJ would take that too the house" etc.

Chris puts an emphasis on game changing type talent with rare physical traits. Adams aint that.

At least people are coming to the realization that Michael Thomas is overrated

I’m basing this on film as well. I don’t give a **** about stats.

Davante Adams is a top 10 WR by ever measure dude. Just looking at the list, there’s no way you can tell me that Green, Cooper, and OBJ have been better the last couple years. Green and OBJ haven’t done dick, and Cooper doesn’t even show up half of the time.

Reek could break the NFL reception record if he didn't just take half of them for 30 yard gains instead of 15.

I expect 2,000 yards, especially with defenses running around half the year missing their assignments.

Mahomes/Reek street ball will reign supreme.

Devante Adams is a really nice receiver, the issue with him though is because they do not have a speed guy with him, he's limited. That receiver core hurts Rodgers too..his #1 guy is basically a possession receiver.

I think Adams is more of a high end 2 than the elite 1 because he's consistent and makes some high level plays but he isn't going to make a defense scared.

Meh, i wouldn't say people are realizing that. Chris Simms realizes that though, but people just wanna say he does it for click bait.

In reality though, he gauges players by the player alone and removes elements such as system, stats and supporting cast.

The stat junkies will always scream about Michael Thomas.

LMAO

This is such a shit take. He’s easily a top 10 WR and you’re saying he’s a high end 2?

Just stop.

OBJ is better for sure. I'm no Cooper fan, but people swear he's the greatest route runner in the NFL. Idk.

Green, sure, a case can be made for Green.

You say you don't base off stats, then your entire argument is "What have you done for me lately" aka...stats.

Chris isn't answering the question of, "Who's been the most productive", he's answering the question of who he believes is the most talented.

Same reason he has Brady and Brees so far down his QB list (15 & 16 IIRC)

You think everyone who disagrees with you is a shit take.

Yeah, sorry, but when i put on the "film", he doesn't have the talent of some of these guys listed on here.

He gets production by being Rodgers #1 WR, but look at how often Rodgers has to make a great throw in tight coverage to make it happen.

You don't think guys like OBJ or Green could produce with Aaron Rodgers?

I like it, actually. Doesn't seem unreasonable.

Keenan Allen, Davante Adams, Allen Robinson and Chris Godwin are all better than Courtland Sutton.
Sutton isn’t even the best receiver on his own goddamn team anymore.

And it’s criminal that Hopkins is ****ing 5th. Give me Hopkins over Julio, Thomas and Evans.

Edit: left out Adams but now added to post

AJ Green hasn’t played football in 2 years. Whether your argument is stats or tape is irrelevant.

OBJ just hasn’t played like the guy he was. I’m willing to give him a pass due to QB play, and he’s the only one I’d say is arguably better because he’s still a very talented WR.

Cooper is a better route runner and that’s literally it. Adams is better because he’s the polar opposite in terms of hands and consistency. He’s also better after the catch.

Seems like you think that I’m calling your take shit by proxy. I’m not.

Yours is reasonable. Calling him a high end 2 is not. I think he’s top 10, but at the very least he’s too 15 and a legitimate #1. You can give Rodgers all the credit you want, but anybody that’s watched that Packers offense with/without Adams knows he’s a legit #1 WR.

Bad take IMO. Adams is such a smooth route runner which makes him so good.

Remember Sammy burning Sherman in the 4th quarter of the SB? He admitted he watched Adams roast Sherman’s asshole 2 weeks prior and copied his same route.

I'm watching Adams and trying to figure out what is that he does that the rest of these WR's can't do.

I can't name it. There's no part of his game that jumps out to me.

It reminds me of the Edwards-Helaire vs Swift conversations.

Helaire demonstrated some elite traits that popped off the screen. Swift, a good player, but no elite traits. That's how i see Adams as well.

Adams is a great route runner with great hands and he’s really ****ing good after the catch.

I didn’t think your take that CEH was better was unreasonable. I thought your take specifically on Swift was. There’s a difference. I even said before all of that that CEH was the best fit for the Chiefs.

If you were arguing that Adams in the top 5 or so made him overrated, I’d agree. But he’s too 15 at the very least and I find it very hard not to put him in the top 10.

Well yeah!

That's fine and all. But looking at the rest of the players on the list you'll need to make a case as to why Adams should be higher than them. AJ Green you can make a case due to injuries, but assuming he's healthy again, he's still a size/speed freak. Cooper i've never liked so no argument there.

Sutton, for example though, is far better after the catch than Adams is. It's not even close.

Yeah. He’s ****ing good. Full stop.

There are other good guys in the league but Reek is my guy.

Sutton is better after the catch.

And Chris Simms mentioned Adams barely not making the top 10 if that makes Adams fans feel better. He has him in the 11-15 range.

He plays with Rodgers, he's not an elite talent guy but I mean I can make the argument he is hurt a bit in the sense that he's the only weapon they have.

Tyreek impacts the game more than any other receiver. Speed kills. He opens up the rest of the field for Kelce, Watkins, the RBs in the flats, etc.

“Far better”? No, sorry I’ve watched both players and that’s bullshit.

Sutton’s YAC 2019:

339 yards.

Adams YAC 2019:

396 yards

Adams also had more yards after the catch in 2018. The stats aren’t the whole story, but in no way is he “far better”.

Also OBJ put up 1000 last year basically being injured the entire season and winging it in a shitty offense.

Yes, far better. You're doing the stats thing again that you said didn't do. There's no way you can put on both player's '19 highlights and tell me Adams was harder to bring down. There's no way.

The stats are just a perfect example that your take is hyperbole. How else am I supposed to tangibly show that? Adams has consistently been one of the best WR’s after the catch since he’s been in the league. Sutton being huge and harder to bring down doesn’t make him “far better” like you seem to think it does.

We do love our ice cream.

Maybe Simms is taking into account that Adams only has one 1000 yd year and gets hurt a lot...

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Every bit as good as Adams in contested catches, arguably better.

Often requires multiple defenders to get him to the ground as he simply has more power in his game than Adams. There's multiple plays where he's literally running DB's over.

Makes acrobatic catches with the best of them.

Every bit as fast as Adams, maybe faster.

Who would you rather have, Adams or Hill?

Another dude that deserves some consideration is Devante Parker, he was very good with a whole lot of nothing around him.

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I'm watching this and asking myself, is there anything in here that any other WR in Simms' top 10 list that COULDN'T do?

My answer is no.

Matter of fact, i'm watching this and thinking, man if that were "so and so", that pass may have actually gone to the house. A perfect example is @ 2:31. Adams catches a wide open slant that OBJ likely woulda housed, but Adams gets caught from behind. He gets caught from behind fairly frequently actually.

And that's the difference between top 10 and 11-15.

He runs good routes and has great hands. I guess he’s got pretty good size.

Eh. He gets a lot of love and I’ve never really paid attention to his numbers. I was shocked to see he’s only broken 1,000 yards in one season.

The Packers needed to make a play for Henry Ruggs, Adams and Rodgers both desperately need some speed on the other side.

He’s had 997 yards twice, one of which was last season when he only played 12 games, so that’s a little misleading.

I never argued against Sutton, that was RunKC. I don’t think he’s better than Adams yet, but he’s younger and more talented. Either way I don’t really have a problem with that, I just think saying he’s “far better” after the catch is baseless. I wouldn’t even have a problem if you said he was better.

I also don’t have a problem with OBJ.

There’s no way you can tell me Green or Cooper should be ahead of him though, which is why I still think he’s top 10.

I also think you’re really underestimating what he does well considering you haven’t once acknowledged how great his hands and route running are combined with downplaying how good he is after the catch.

I think Adams is debatable there because you get to where guys have flaws. Amari Cooper has his flaws and well AJ Green doesn't really play much now.

I won't argue about Green and Cooper. I will say though, that a healthy Green is better than Adams. No doubt. What's doubtful is whether he's healthy.

And Cooper...i've never liked Cooper. Not even coming out of college.

And yeah, i don't think his RAC is special.

I think I'm just less enamored with the slower guys. Dude's who average like 12 YPC or less don't do it for me. Michael Thomas, Deandre Hopkins, Julian Edelman, Devante Adams, Keenan Allen. Obviously they're good and valuable receivers but I'd be more inclined to want a guy who's a bit more explosive on my team.

Amari Cooper is just one of those potential guys. He's been riding on it for a while now.

He's got great size, great speed, runs great routes. If he just put it all together he could easily be a top 3-5 guy. Instead he has some inopportune drops and disappears for stretches during the season.

I live in Green Bay so I've seen Adams play quite a few times.

He's good, but not anything super special. He's in the 12-15 range. If you want to argue top 10 that's fine, but it's not some travesty to leave him out. I also saw Javon Walker in his prime back in the day and he stood out way more than Adams.

I'm just glad to see Hill getting the recognition he deserves. I can honestly say there isn't a single WR in football I'd take over him. Not just for his sick talent, but he is as tough of a player as I have ever seen at any position. I'll never forget that game in 2018 against the Ravens where he made that 4th and 9 catch when his ankle was literally dangling from his calf. It was ridiculous. Then obviously last year, to come back from that freak injury as quickly as he did. Not to mention all the times he's been laid out and just hopped right back up.

Love that guy.

Truth. Dare I say, "No Tyreek no Ring." discus

1. Julio Jones
2. DeAndre Hopkins
3. Tyreek Hill
4. Michael Thomas
5. Mike Evans
6. Chris Godwin
7. Odell Beckham
8. Davante Adams
9. Kenny Golladay
10. Amari Cooper

Golladay is probably the most underrated IMO

Courtland Sutton is a chump

Sutton ROFL No ****ing way

I wouldn't take any of those guys over Hill, so I guess I'd put him at 1 too.

Is Sutton's catch radius as big as the broad side of a barn?

Because even then, it wouldn't be enough with Drew Lock as his QB.

No way in hell Julio is better than Hopkins LMAO

Man, I have no idea what your thing is with Julio, but it’s strange.

Please tell us again how “not clutch” he is when he made what should be seen as one of the most clutch catches in SB history that should’ve sealed their victory. It’s literally the only reason you can even attempt to make this dumb argument. Playing this stupid narrative game with Julio is the EXACT same thing you did with Andy. You still haven’t learned obviously.

Love that YouTube highlight reels are "film" "game tape" ROFL

I’d take mike Evans over Hopkins but probably Julio over both. He’s a bit older so may slow down at some point soon but he’s a monster

That's not true he's over rated. He catches everything and runs great routes.

I didn't say he sucked. Just that he's overrated.

Bunch of fantasy football dorks who don't watch games think he's the best WR when he's not even top 5

Maybe it’s because I don’t watch much Tampa but I’m just not a Mike Evans guy. Maybe it’s that Manziel stink on him from college.

I’d rather roll with Hopkins. He catches (well caught now LOL) all those **** it chuck it garbage balls from Watson and is way faster than Evans

Hopkins has been as good as Julio for a long ass time and that’s with Julio playing with Matt Ryan his whole career while Hopkins was playing with ****ing AID’S of the likes of TJ Yates, Brian Hoyer, old and declining Matt Schaub and Brock Assweiler and he still balled out.

Did I mention he’s been pretty much the only weapon on his offense most of his career? Fuller is nice but he’s constantly hurt or hurting.

Hopkins is the best deep threat in football not named Tyreek Hill. His hands are generational and his route running is excellent. Watson’s numbers literally came from ****ing chucking it and watching Hopkins make incredible catches all the time.

I have Hopkins #2 and you’re talking to me like I don’t know how good he is. He’s great, but he’s not the freak of nature that Julio is.

He’s not better than Julio unless he’s lost a step over the offseason.

I’d also argue that Hopkins has had the better QB the last few years.

I don’t have a problem with somebody putting Hopkins #1, but your critique has more to do with your agenda against Julio (like your previous agenda with Andy). You do this every time his name is mentioned.

Lol dawg.. what?

He wasn't even the best deep threat in Houston, let alone the league.

Yea I kind of glossed over that part, but that’s definitely not true.

That's exactly why I think Hopkins is actually a little bit overrated.

I never truly feared him. I knew he'd get his. He'd get his 10 catches for 110 yards. He'd move the chains a few times and maybe even get a 6. I get the adulation.

But he never inspired genuine fear in me. I was never worried about him breaking behind the coverage and wrecking us. I was never worried about him having one of those Keenan Allen games where we just couldn't stay with him. Or even a guy like Thomas who has the kind of preternatural, freakish chemistry with his QB that Thomas has.

He's steady as the sunrise and dependable as hell. He's good. His cumulative impact makes him a top 5 guy. But I can't put him ahead of a guy like Hill because I never felt he was a genuine gamebreaker.

Regarding Adams:

In Hill's first year I made reference to how surprised I was at how well he did 'receiver things' that you don't often look for. That's where Adams is so damn good.

All that little crap; setting your feet to get a DB off balance, using your hands to keep a defender's arms outside of your kitchen and keeping them free for a catch, hitting your cut right at the top of a stride so you can turn at full speed. It's a whole slew of little things that makes for a damn valuable player.

One thing I've learned over the last 20 years or so is that every damn guy on that field is a freak athlete. They're all insane. And while some guys have standout attributes that show themselves (Sutton's size, Hill's speed), for the majority of players its simply how a lot of those little things come together. Adams is one of those guys. Thomas is one of those guys.

But DJ, he’s clearly just a “high end 2“!

:facepalm:

Minimum 8 peat

That’s bc his QB’s have been catastrophic most of his career. In January 2017 the Steelers weren’t scared of Tyreek bc they knew Alex Smith could get rattled and his timid nature wouldn’t get the ball downfield.

Hopkins has been stuck in Dwayne Bowes career with worthless QB’s 90% of his career. Remember our first playoff win in decades in Houston? The guy had Brian Hoyer as his QB.

I would go as far as to say that DeShaun Watson is a pitiful postseason QB. His embarrassing performance at home against the Colts and then even more embarrassing performance last January not being able to put any points for almost 3 Q’s after being up 24-0?

Know why that is? Hopkins was hurt and had to leave the game. That entire offense shut down bc of that.

And O’Brien still traded him. Unbelievable

I mean it’s not my fault Julio is basically a more athletic Dwayne Bowe. They even both blew playoff games on routine balls that should have been caught.

The problem people have here is thinking measurables/speed is the end all be all. He’s not a good route runner and his hands turn to shit far too often. I don’t think Julio is a top 10 route runner. Maybe not even top half of the league. He’s not even the best route runner on his own goddamn team.

And that’s the mistake people made with Tyreek thinking the same thing. Tyreek absolutely deserves to be #1 bc of his awesome hands, ball tracking and drastically improved route running.

Big dudes like Julio aren't gonna look the same running routes as a guy like Tyreek or AB. He's so big, he's not gonna corner like that. Same thing happened with TO, always does with bigger WR's. Calvin Johnson wasn't gonna have those loosey hips, physics doesn't allow it.

But Julio is still a monster. I don't really understand the hate.

When you're putting up 100 catch 1500 yard 8 TD seasons regularly, yeah, you're pretty much in some storied territory.

Basically, Tyreek's 2018? Julio does that about every year.

Jesus.

When pro-rated for a 16 game season, Julio's career average season is 101 catches for 1540 yards and 7 scores. Last season was his first season over the previous 6 where he didn't go for at least 1,400 yards (1394 over 15 games)

Wow. Yeah, he can play a little bit. He'll slow down a bit at some point (31 years old now) but it's hard to say he has before he does.

Clearly just a more athletic Dwayne Bowe!

:facepalm:

Good god RunKC. What a shit ****ing take.

Yeah.

That one's pretty damn bad.

It's time for you to take a break from the computer, bud.

I think he's drunk

It's apples and oranges.

Big, long, tall guys don't play the same as smaller, compact guys.

You might prefer the look of one over the other; and might prefer the benefits of one over the other, but the value of one over the other lies in the offensive system.

To try to compare them outside of context is silly.

With Mahomes, in this system, Tyreek is the best possible WR to have. His skillset matches perfectly.

A Julio Jones type WR in a different system, with a different QB might be a better fit.

I think elite speed transfers about anywhere though.

Julio is an all time WR. You could put him in any system and he's gonna be elite.

Exactly.

With this system and this quarterback, there's not a guy in the league I'd rather have than Hill. He's an absolutely perfect fit. Apart from Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss, I'm just not sure you could draw up a better guy. Jerry Rice, I guess.

But if I'm a team that relies more on ball control, I'm taking Julio 100 times out of 100. Or even Hopkins, who again, I'm not in love with. But put Hopkins in Baltimore and he'd be far more effective for them than Hill would be.

And honestly, on MOST teams, Hopkins or Julio would probably be more effective than Hill. Because on most teams, Hill would be a supercharged Julien Edelman. Because few teams have a QB that can put his stop/start ability and top-end speed to its full use. And those that do have a guy with that kind of arm also have a guy who's accuracy comes and goes and who needs a bigger catch radius (think Josh Allen).

So in that regard I understand why some wouldn't have Hill ranked as highly. He's simply uniquely suited for this team.

I think you could put Hill in Pitt with a healthy big Ben and he'd be just as good. Hill has the rep as a speedster, but he's a damn well rounded WR.

Well, you'd return to vintage Big Ben style passing, which is stand in there and chuck it downfield. Sure, that would work as long as Ben is standing upright.

great players are great players and would make plays in any system.

All these guys are great players that are being discussed.

Some would have less statistical impact in different systems with different QB's.

Some are in perfect situations for their skillsets.