Not starting Patrick Mahomes II in 2017 - good idea or bad idea?
 

Some of you may know that Patrick Mahomes II was drafted in 2017. He watched 15 of the 16 regular season games from the sideline, and he watched the Jeff Triplette abomination from the same locale.

My question to you, brilliant Kansas City Chiefs fans, is whether that was a good move or a bad move long term.

There are many facets to consider in this situation. I'll list a few, and you will likely identify more.

Would we have made the playoffs in 2017 with a Mahomes-Led Team (MLT)?
Would we have gone further in the playoffs with an MLT?
Would we get one more career year from Mahomes to enjoy in that situation?
Mahomes learned from Alex
Alex's trade value was impacted by starting in 2017.
Would more film have impacted Mahomes' legendary 2018 season?
Would more playing experience have impacted Mahomes' legendary 2018 season?
We lost a year of Mahomes' non-billion dollar rookie contract.
Would it have impacted Mahomes' chemistry with future consensus all-pro Gehrig Dieter?

You'll be receiving a poll faster than Patrick Mahomes II throws to Kelce over the middle.

Bad, could have had 2 SB's already

Good. Everybody has talked about how much having a year to learn from Reid and Alex helped him. A year to literally just learn with no pressure to perform was really good for him and we see how much his mechanics have improved while still retaining his uniqueness.

[QUOTE=Rain Man;14052885]Some of you may know that Patrick Mahomes II was drafted in 2017. He watched 15 of the 16 regular season games from the sideline, and he watched the Jeff Triplette abomination from the same locale.



My question to you, brilliant Kansas City Chiefs fans, is whether that was a good move or a bad move long term.



There are many facets to consider in this situation. I'll list a few, and you will likely identify more.



Would we have made the playoffs in 2017 with a Mahomes-Led Team (MLT)?


I think it was good for him to sit . Now you could argue Andy shouldve trotted him out in the 4th quarter of the Titans game last year (I think he would've won it for us) but you also have to consider the derogatory effect that would have on Alex's trade value, so I get what Andy was thinking. As much as we complain about Andy he usually seems like he knows best.(like starting Ward in the Seahawks game) The guy has won a freaking ton of games.

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It was a complete wasted opportunity. He learned zero for that junk QB Alex.

I would have started him after the Giants debacle.


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I think it was the perfect way to handle him. The only gripe I have is that Andy didn't yank Alex in the second half of last year's playoff debacle

ROFL:clap:

Might be right!

Although I think having a guy like Mahomes sitting behind Smith was good for a year. A guy, who's biggest knock coming into KC was being too much of a gunslinger and hunting the big play, had to sit behind Alex Smiff - the king of being a pussy and not taking the risky big play.

It was still worth the 3rd rounder and Fuller. Smith would have lost value in a benching.

Myths create conversation

Obviously it’s worked out pretty damn good. Who knows if he would have learned pre-snap defensive reads on the fly if he starts day one. His decision making is way better than he ever showed in college.

Also let’s not underestimate the impact Reid has had on his development this season by sitting with him and coaching him up every time the defense is playing. Again, obviously, that was another good decision.

He didn't have a redshirt year in college and only started playing QB his junior year of high school. He played most of the 2015 and 2016 seasons with significant injuries to his knee, throwing shoulder, and wrist.

The 2017 "redshirt" year at the pro level was awesome for him. Got to heal from the 2015-2016 injuries. Learned a hell of a lot from Reid, Nagy, Kafka, and Alex.

I think Patrick Mahomes is a good football player

Should have started playoff game last season.

This. Alex can have those other 15 games.

Mahomes plays against the Titans, we would have won.

I dunno about that. Chiefs offense was great in that first half. Maybe put Mahomes in there in the 4th quarter after it became obvious the offense wasn't getting the job done in the 2nd half.

Could damage Alex very fragile ego and his QBR.

3rd and 8. I know! I'll dump it off to the RB at 5 yards short of the sticks. Stats!

Let that shit go. You guys are all smart. You can’t prove a negative. We will never know. It’s in the history books.

We do know for sure, we have the NFL MVP starting for the Chiefs. Everyone gets to enjoy the first AFCCG at Arrowhead, ever. It’s worked out finally for the Chiefs and us long suffering fans.

It was the right decision. It worked out for the best. Yeah, maybe we would have beaten the Titans in the playoffs last year. But we wouldn't have gotten Fuller in return for Alex if he wasn't starting and playing his best season. Without Fuller, we likely wouldn't have had the number one seed this year and quite possibly would have not made it to the AFCCG. We would have probably ended up the 5 seed. Andy is smarter than all of us. He proved it by sitting Mahomes last year.

Now, had Smith suffered a mild concussion or a twisted ankle in the Titans game about half-time, then that could have been nice. Alex wouldn't have lost any trade value and we probably win that game.

He got a year of learning how to be a nfl qb from alex as well as understanding the defense without having to get hit. Plus let him get hungry to go and show people how good he is.

[QUOTE=Reerun_KC;14053091]Could damage Alex very fragile ego and his QBR.[/QUOTE
]More importantly it would have dimished Smith's trade value. Pretty sure that was Andy's logic. Mahomes was 22 and Andy probably knew Mahomes had a good shot of winning that game in the 4th but it would've mortgaged some of our future talent "capital" so he decided it wasnt worth it. All I know is thank God we have Mahomes. Its still hard to believe.

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A superb idea. Mahomes improved big time. I'm glad he spent a year coaching himself out of bad habits. Can't be said enough how much he's improved. I think rushing him might have turned him into a career freelancer. I'm glad he's become much more than that.

And God forbid Pat had a lukewarm playoff performance. Everyone might second guess the Alex trade. And the dipshits would always doubt whether Alex would have won instead. That playoff loss allowed us a clean break from Alex and we got a sweet trade for a starter, not a backup.

The script this season could not have been written any better. He started the season with an explosive first month. Got the media and fans all on board the bandwagon. Now he's a good bet for MVP. We beat Pittsburgh finally. We beat Indy in Arrowhead. And now we're going to get the New England monkey off our back tomorrow. Who knows if that script is nearly as clean if Mahomes has to enter this season as a playoff loser.

That's a really solid point, but I think most GMs would see through that ruse.

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I think he may have learned a lot from watching that playoff loss last year.

I agree, we probably win if we bench Smith, but it all worked out in the end.

It was obviously the right decison. Mahomes, Reid, and even Mahomes Dad have constantly talked about how important it was for Mahomes to sit that first-year and learn from Smitty.

I know a lot of the armchair GMs on here think they know more about QBs than Andy Reid does but truth is, you don't. Reid knows what he is doing when it comes to that position. He had his reasons for not starting Mahomes and that is good enough for me.

Yip

Not only that, but a playoff loss of his own could hit his confidence. Media and fans only memory of Mahomes would be a playoff game he was unprepared for. That's a long offseason. And not ideal considering that many fans and in the media weren't sold on getting rid of Smith. Unnecessary to rush him. We gave Mahomes his own offense built around him and a full offseason to prepare. Frankly, judging by the way the Chiefs approached the offseason, I think they expected him to have a bumpy first few games.

Similar to Foles making Wentz look replaceable the last couple years.

Yeah I think so.

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given the outcome up to this point, i can't believe you are even asking the question. aside from it being unfair to DJ that he missed out on this year. :D

I'm answering the question posed by the thread. I said it was a good idea for Alex to start games 1-16. Mahomes should have had the last two.

Geez. I didn't care for Alex, but I'm not trying to start shit.

I dunno, Pat could already have 10,000 yards and 100 TD's by now, so I guess last year was a waste.

1. Good idea.
2. He learned so much from Smiff.
3. Everything happens for a reason.
4. Let's just enjoy this ride.

Btw I voted worse for the Chiefs in the short term but better in the long term because I think we easily beat the Titans with Mahomie.

But I guess I'm not looking at the whole season.

Either way - let's just enjoy this ride.

Yeah those pesky Raider players.

Smith had a career year in 2017 which upped his trade value. PM2 learned from Smith. I think Andy made the right choice.

This is how I see it.

This is the correct answer.

5000/50 shows Fat Andy and Veach made the right call giving MVPat a redshirt year.

We would have certainly gone farther in the playoffs, but to what ultimate end??

I hate this stupid ass "he learned from Smith bullshit, because Reid and even Mahomes said so!". Wtf do you guys expect them to say.

Reid "Yeah, well I made a mistake starting Alex last year in place of Mahomes. I knew Mahomes was ready and couldn't possibly learn anything from that cuck QB."

Mahomes "Alex was a real pussy. Sitting behind him was the mistake Andy could have made. What was he supposed to teach me? How to run out of a clean pocket and into a sack or how to throw 6 yards short on 3rd down."

Another stupid ass thing that is said is he had to be coached out of his wreckless college mistakes. Wtf are some of you idiots talking about. His last year of college he had 41 tds and 10 ints. Hes still the same player he was in college.

Good idea. As amazing as he is, you can tell some if his miscues at times are a result of his poor footwork that probably can still be improved. It would have been worse a year ago. As painful as another year of Alex Smith was, I believe letting Mahomes sit an develop was the best thing for all parties involved.

If Alex Smith was a dick to Mahomes and didnt teach him shit not sure Reid or Mahomes would mention it but they certainly wouldnt be praising the guy for helping him.

You also fail to mention Mahomes Dad praising Smith. Again, if he didnt learn anything from Smith not sure Mahomes Dad would mention it but I guarantee you he wouldn't have said this:

Dads understand and appreciate help given to their children. So Pat Mahomes told Smith several times last year how much he appreciated what he did for his boy. Unspoken was the fact that they both knew Patrick was there to take Smith’s job.

“That’s what’s so admirable about what Alex did all season for him,” Pat Mahomes said. “I know how it was when I came up [to the Minnesota Twins, in 1992]. I remember one time that year asking Jack Morris how he threw his split-finger fastball. He said, ‘Get away from me, you little … You’ll be trying to take my job next year.’”


And to say that Mahomes is same player he was in college is stupid. You really think he learned absolutely nothing at all by sitting one-year? Come on now...

Hindsight is always 20/20.;)

Exactly !!

Trust me if NFL organizations had the luxury we did by having a NO.1 rd pick QB sit the bench and learn from a competent system QB for a year they ALL would take this approach. But most don't have this luxury. Now some will say we never had this luxury because Alex should have been benched but I say we did. IF Alex were benched yes Mahomes would have came in and made a few eye opening plays and maybe even win a playoff game but what you chance is not only physical injury but even more is a deep seated psychological injury that would be very hard to undo. But we'll never know thank goodness!!:clap:

The Chiefs have shown the model of developing a QB to the rest of the league on how to do it IF they afford themselves the opportunity in the future which I think organizations will start to do in order to reduce the risk of a 1st rd QB bust.

I think you will see organizations really begin to put more of an emphasis on finding 'that guy' who 'really knows the QB position' and is that right person for the QB coach position.

This

The Chiefs strategy only works if you have a good QB in the first place like Alex. Bills tried to let Josh Allen sit for a year, but Peterman was so bad they were forced to let Allen play.

/thread

Don't even need an Alex Smith. A journeyman like Chad Henne is a good enough placeholder, as long as you have a coach/GM who have the full confidence of the owner to stay the course and not put a guy in too early.

As does many organizations and why they will trend to attempt to put themselves in a luxury position for when that time occurs for changing of the guard. What you really can't know or count on is a decent starting QB who is willing to tutor or that rookie QB that is willing to be a sponge(student of the game) because he truly loves the game with both giving you lip service prior.

I would say better..I mean..
Hard to argue that we could be in a better spot right now. If anything, starting him last year could've been a huge error somehow

I just wish they would have had Alex pretend an injury and come out of the Titans game for a few plays to see if Mahomey could have brought us back.

23 people voted worse in the long term. I can't figure out how they can say that. At worst, it's a wash long term. I mean, how how does anyone think that a year on the bench hurt this team in the long term? There are really only 2 options better long term and short term or worse short term but better long term.

I didn't say Alex was a jackass, but explain to me what Alex taught Mahomes. Alex has nothing to do with Patrick's success. If Mahomes played last year he would have had a better season than Alex and we probably have a Superbowl and we're talking about a repeat.

I never wanted Mahomes to sit.

You would have to talk to Reid and Mahomes they are the ones saying he helped Mahomes not me. But to act like Reid wouldn't know if Mahomes should start over Alex Smith when he is a known offensive guru. the one in practices, meetings, former QB coach etc it is hard for me to buy that.

Either way it worked out. Mahomes had an unbelievable year and we got Fuller and some picks for Alex. You can talk hypothetical situations all you want that we'd done this or that w Mahomes last season but you don't know for sure.

You're right. Mahomes learned nothing on the bench behind Smith. He should have started every game last year. Mahomes, his dad, Reid, and every other source are just a bunch of liars. Thanks for straightening us all out. You're so smart! Tell me, why did you miss your calling? You would no doubt have 20 Superbowl rings by now. SMH.

Everything is as it should be

a year to learn is too valuable to quantify

I don't think you should ever start a rookie QB. The position is too difficult. Throwing them out there early is a great way to ingrain bad habits.

Good. It allowed Reid and Mahomes to develop a relationship. Reid gained confidence in Mahomes in a way that wouldn't have happened under fire. That confidence let Reid open up the playbook way more than he would have in his 1st season. No Watkins either.

Alex probably taught Smith a lot when it comes to reading coverages and learning the playbook and probably helped work with Pat on mechanics because Smith does have good mechanics.

Once again like PA said, while they wouldn't shit on Alex if they didn't help Mahomes, they 100% wouldn't praise him. Mahomes dad for sure isn't thanking him if he didn't help his son.