As expected, it wasn't the play calling except for 1 play call. It was execution by a few players and some bad play from the QB position with decisions and inaccuracy. It wasn't all on Alex but he deserves a lot of the blame IMO. He didn't lose this game on his own but he certainly didn't do anything to win this game and that's why we drafted Mahomes. QB won't fix all the problems with this team going forward as there are significant upgrades that need to be made, mostly on defense, both coaching and aging players. Great QB's often overcome mistakes that we saw in the 2nd half. Brady, Rodgers, Brees don't lose that game with the same playcalls and I'd argue a handful of other QB's don't lose that game either.
Spoiler!
MNCHIEFSFAN
Shattering Myths: The Chiefs second half offensive failures
391
By MNchiefsfan Jan 11, 2018, 7:57am CST
Why do you believe what you believe?
That’s a pretty loaded question, make no mistake. But it is an important one. Why is it important? Because a belief is, in general, only as good as its consistency with the truth. Quite often, unfortunately, the truth can be difficult to ascertain (in life and in sports), and so we fall back to assumptions and narratives, and treat those as truth.
The Chiefs offense was abysmal in the 2nd half of the playoff loss to the Titans (as was the defense, but given I’ve already made my position on Bob Sutton needing to go clear elsewhere that’s for another day). There is no doubt about that. It was glaringly obvious.
What wasn’t obvious, and never is on broadcast viewing, is the “why.” Why did the offense go from looking nearly unstoppable to completely inept in the course of a single half? Was it adjustments by the Titans that blanketed the Chiefs? Did the play calling fall off the map? Did the players just stop being good? For me, the question of “why” is always the most important question, not the “what.” Because if we can’t answer the “why,” we can’t make a good determination as to what is next.
After the game, Twitter (and my mentions) became flooded with “fire Andy” and “Andy has to go” tweets. The general consensus was that Andy Reid simply cannot win in the playoffs, that he took over the 2nd half playcalling (or perhaps the whole game), that he went into “his conservative shell” with the lead, and that his coaching cost the Chiefs the game.
Those are all absolutely possibilities (though both Andy and Matt Nagy have tried to take the blame for the 2nd half failure, with Nagy claiming to have called every play and Andy claiming to have called “all the bad ones), and should be examined. So I asked people who were telling me that Andy Reid is to blame was this: what did he do in the playoff game that cause the Chiefs to lose?
The answers were almost universally the following:
1. The playcalling contained too many screens and horizontal passes.
2. There was no “killer instinct” to the play calls, and they were too conservative, with no shots down the field.
3. Kareem Hunt didn’t get the ball enough.
These all seem like legitimate possibilities (I have criticized Reid’s play calling with a lead in the past, and Hunt certainly didn’t touch the ball as much as I’d like), but what I found troubling is that no one I questioned could point me to specific instances (outside of a single play call) demonstrating what they were talking about. This lead me to question the validity of the points, so it became time to turn on the tape.
So I proceeded to review all 20 of the offensive snaps the Chiefs took in the 2nd half of the playoff game, and made a gif of each one for your viewing on Twitter (with the exception of several plays broken down by Brian Baldinger, which I RT’d with my own thoughts). If you would like to review that work (as I’m not going to put all 20 gifs here), this is a link to my Twitter’s “media.”
I’ll be blunt about what I found, then provide the supporting evidence: the narratives surrounding the 2nd half playcalling are by and large complete crap (though there was one awful call, the option on 3rd and short). I wish there was a nicer way to phrase it, but I found certain things to be true:
There was not a single screen play called in the 2nd half. Not one.
There was not a single “horizontal pass play” (which are often types of screens as part of RPO’s, but I thought I’d separate the two) ran by the Chiefs in the 2nd half. Not one.
While Kareem Hunt’s usage was down, there were several RPO’s where it was Alex Smith’s choice to not give him the ball, not the play caller (whether it was Reid or Nagy).
Outside the final drive of the game, Hunt runs consisted of 40% of the play calls, which is pretty lock-step with his usage in the 1st half (and the season as a whole). It’s also worth noting that several of the plays Hunt did not get the ball were on 2nd and 11 and 3rd and 13, not ideal run situations. So while the fact that Hunt didn’t get the ball enough is true to an extent, when you evaluate the context of when the Chiefs had the ball and the context of the snaps (RPO’s, situation, etc) it becomes much less clear what specifically SHOULD have been done. And that’s the most accurate of the narratives that have been pushed since the game ended.
Again, the idea that the Chiefs ran a bunch of screens and horizontal plays is completely and totally untrue. Also untrue is the idea that the offensive failure in the 2nd half was schematic or playcalling in nature. Since many won’t believe me based on word alone, there’s no choice but to present every snap. If you’re on the fence, this should make you feel a bit better about Andy (or Nagy, I guess). If you’ve made up your mind either way, well, this will have no effect on you but will serve for informational purposes I suppose.
Snap 1: 1st and 10
Seth Keysor
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@RealMNchiefsfan
1st play: Witzmann gets beat immediately, forcing short throw to Wilson (who is 1st read due to coverage). Throw is way high, but through his hands. Note the routes if there's longer than a second to throw.
6:25 PM - Jan 8, 2018
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So on the first snap, we see something that is going to be a pattern: an execution failure that kills the play. In this case, there are multiple failures.
The first is Witzmann getting beaten immediately, resulting in pressure immediately after the snap. Pressure like this limits a quarterback’s choices, and Alex has no option to go through reads and the routes have no time to develop. Instead, Alex has to throw to his bailout option, Albert Wilson. Unfortunately, the throw is high (though catchable), preventing much of a chance of YAC.
It doesn’t matter in the end, as Wilson can’t haul it in. The failure in protection doomed this play to an extent, but the poor throw and catch sealed it.
Play 2: 2nd and 10
Kareem Hunt is given the ball on what appears to be an RPO. (look here for the gif) with a decision made presnap as to whether the outside throw is an option. Hunt makes a solid 9 yard gain.
This is the type of play that you’d imagine they run again on 3rd down. Instead, what followed next was the biggest failure (from what I can see) in play calling of the day.
Play 3: 3rd and 1
This play call is inexplicable. Brian Baldinger broke it down very well here. There is some presnap action by Alex, but I don’t believe he checked into this play. This call (an option right to the short side of the field) had no chance from the very start, as the Titans played it extremely well.
Play 4: 1st and 10 (2nd drive after muffed punt)
Seth Keysor
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@RealMNchiefsfan
4th play. APPEARS to be an RPO, with Alex choosing to go to Hunt. If that is what it actually is, I'd have rather he kept and thrown to the shallow in at the top of the screen. Run would've gone better had Harris gotten to that secondary defender.
9:24 PM - Jan 8, 2018
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One of the issues with an offense running so many RPO’s is that the final result of the play isn’t necessarily on the coach. Here, Alex (I believe seeing an unblocked ILB screaming towards him) doesn’t have a lot of great options.
While he could pull the ball back and hope the defender follows Hunt (Robinson is open on an in route at the top of the screen), in my opinion had he done so he likely gets creamed. I’ve watched this play several times and I think the defender did a nice job keeping his eyes on Alex and Hunt to see where the ball went.
What makes this play a loss of yardage is that Demetrius Harris is unable to get to the second level and either seal off the defender or at least get some push. Had he done so, there should be an edge for Hunt to and some yards to be gained. As it is, he’s forced inside into the teeth of the defense.
Play 5: 2nd and 11
I’ll let Baldy break this one down.
Brian Baldinger
✔
@BaldyNFL
.@Chiefs QB refuses to pull the trigger to #DemetriusHarris. It’s the throws he refuses to make that hurst his team in the playoffs. #BaldyBreakdowns
3:16 PM - Jan 8, 2018 · NFL Films
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This is one of the plays that I believe had people saying “look, a screen!” when it is not.
Alex Smith has made that exact throw multiple times this season (to a TE curling around the shallow coverage before the S could arrive). He didn’t this time, and it cost the Chiefs. The play call was a good one that beat the defense. Instead, Alex checked down to Hill when protection (quickly) broke down, threw it high, and Hill couldn’t break loose. Loss of 2.
Play 6 (3rd and 13)
Another execution failure.
Seth Keysor
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@RealMNchiefsfan
6th play (3rd and 13). Note the routes. Fisher isn't great, but Alex HAS to step up and survey here. Instead, he bails and gets caught. Wilson (middle of field) is 1st down there if Alex just waits. But sure, tell me more about playcalling.
10:50 PM - Jan 8, 2018
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While Fisher gives up the edge, he’s able to force his man wide, and Alex has a very good pocket to step into.
Had he done so, he would have seen Albert Wilson open in the middle of the field right on the 1st down marker, with room to run if he gets even a remotely decent throw. Instead, Alex sees (he thinks) daylight with the defense in man coverage to try and run for the first down. Maybe he would have gotten there (though the S is already reacting), but the defenders see him scrambling and stop him at the line.
Again, look at the routes. This is not a playcalling issue. The play was there on one of the most important snaps of the game, which could’ve led to more clock being bled and at least an easier FG attempt (or even a touchdown). Instead, it led to a just barely missed FG, and Andy gets blamed for something he couldn’t control.
Play 7 (1st and 10, 1st drive in 4th Q)
With the Titans playing off man (and Tyreek Hill’s man bailing deep at the snap), Alex opts for a quick throw on a curl to Hill for a 5 yard gain. See the gif here.
This is one of Reid’s “use the passing game as a run replacement” plays that drive us crazy at times, but the reality is it worked.
Play 8 (2nd and 5)
The Chiefs spread the Titans out with 5 receivers, and Alex finds Albert Wilson on an out route for an 8 yard gain and a 1st down. See the gif here, the play did a nice job taking advantage of the coverage the Titans were running. I assume no one has complaints about that.
Play 9 (1st and 10)
On an RPO, Alex gives the ball to Hunt. 7 yards gained, not bad. Here is the gif. Again, Reid allowing Alex to make the call based on what the defense gives him, and in this case Alex makes the correct call.
Play 10 (2nd and 3)
This play was a 1 yard gain by Kareem Hunt. The unfortunate truth is that as great as Hunt has been this year, on this particular play he missed a cutback that would’ve led to a first down without any issue. Again, Baldinger broke it down in great deal (if you’re not following him on Twitter, I’m not sure what you’re doing with yourself).
Brian Baldinger
✔
@BaldyNFL
.@chiefs with plenty of blame to go around including the NFL’ s leading rusher. #BaldyBreakdowns
3:24 PM - Jan 8, 2018 · NFL Films
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It’s a sad sort of irony that in a play call the Chiefs fans likely loved, a failure of execution led to a stuff at the line of scrimmage.
Play 11 (3rd and 3)
This, for me, was arguably the real turning point of the game. The Chiefs had been marching finally and looked like they were going to move down the field, eating clock and eventually extending their lead. Then this play happened and suddenly everything was in doubt.
Seth Keysor
✔
@RealMNchiefsfan
Play 11. 3rd and 3. Route combos produce multiple good options. Wilson on a curl at the bottom (zone defender inside no danger, on Hill), Tyreek gets to a gap (as ball is thrown, to be fair), and Charles gets inside leverage. Drops a not-great-but-easily-catchable ball.
11:28 PM - Jan 8, 2018
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The protection is quite good on this play, and the route combinations defeat the defense in several places. Alex looks to his left, where Wilson is open but perhaps in a small window due to Hill’s defender being in the area (that’s still the throw I prefer). Hill is streaking to the defense’s second level, and had Alex waited a moment he would have come open on a deep crosser from all appearances, in between the levels of the defense.
However, Alex sees that Orson Charles has inside leverage (which he absolutely does) and chooses that throw. You’ve all seen that replayed up close. It’s not a great throw, on his back hip, but it’s one that was a pretty easy catch all things considered.
Of course, he didn’t catch it. He dropped it. Maybe he would’ve caught a more accurate throw, but that’s not what happened so we’ll never know.
The takeaway for purposes of what we’re researching? This was a GOOD play call on 3rd and short, and one that took advantage of the defense in multiple places. If you want to complain about playcalling, this isn’t the place to do it. The coaches won here, the players couldn’t deliver.
Play 12 (1st and 10, final drive)
A good route combo of Wilson and Harris flummoxes the Titans zone and leads to an easy 13 yard gain for the Chiefs. See the gif here. There’s also an illegal contact against Hill on an out and up where he would’ve roasted the defender. But oh well.
Play 13 (1st and 10)
Another massive turning point in the game, as Alex beautifully executes a read option and keeps the ball, leading to an 18 yard gain. However, an awful holding call on Demetrius Harris (which Geoff Schwartz discusses in detail here) sets the Chiefs back 15+ yards.
We can talk about the validity of the call but again, our purpose here is to evaluate play calling. This play call (and great execution) destroyed the Titans and should have led to the ball in enemy territory. Instead, the 2nd most questionable call of the day took that away.
Play 14: (1st and 9)
Hill had a rough game. He drops an easy 6-7 yard gain (gif here) after a year in which his hands were generally solid (he had 3 drops vs the Titans, and 3 the rest of the year by my count).
The play design here allows for some quick, easy yards. Instead, it’s a drop. Such things happen, and Hill may well have been out of sorts with a family tragedy recently. But again, for our purposes, the play call was effective.
Play 15 (2nd and 9)
Seth Keysor
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@RealMNchiefsfan
Play 15. A lot going on here. Witzmann misses blitzer looping around, Alex decides to run instead of a quick throw to open Harris, and the TEN secondary gets away with at least 2 illegal contact penalties. Ends in a 0 yard sack.
11:39 AM - Jan 9, 2018
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In another execution failure, Witzmann misses a blitzer coming late and looping around the line. Alex had the bailout option to Harris, who had good separation, but pulled the ball down and trusted his legs instead. The Titans (who were keying on Alex’s scrambles) reacted well, and the play went nowhere.
Play 16 (3rd and 4 after an offsides)
On an utterly critical down, Smith and Harris come through to convert. Here is the gif. Not much to say here other than there was a shot to be had down the field to Hill, but in this situation (3rd and 9) I’m glad Smith opted for the safer (though still tough) throw to Harris. It’s also worth noting that Wilson was open past the marker on a quick out as well.
Play 17 (1st and 10)
This is where they start to really hurt to watch, just FYI.
Seth Keysor
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@RealMNchiefsfan
Play 17: 1st and 10. Appears to be another RPO, this time Alex hands the ball to Hunt and for the life of me I don't know why. The free defender APPEARS to go for Hunt immediately.
2:03 PM - Jan 9, 2018
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Another read option look (I believe the pass option was discarded presnap, at least based on Alex’s movement here).
Much like the earlier play in which Alex took off and ran, the edge defenders crash harder on Hunt than they do Alex. Instead of keeping it this time, though, Alex hands it off to Hunt for a very short gain.
Obviously, there’s no saying for sure what that play would have looked like, but I would have loved to see Alex keep that one. I think he gets at the very least 5 yards there, which would’ve been critical at this point.
Play 18 (2nd and 9)
Seth Keysor
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@RealMNchiefsfan
Play 18: 2nd and 9. I understand if Alex didn't want to go back to Charles after the drop earlier, but he was much more open over the middle on a crosser than Harris is on the drag. Pocket was fine.
2:13 PM - Jan 9, 2018
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Good protection for Alex, a couple of deep routes drag defenders away, and Orson Charles has all kinds of room across the middle of the field. Alex could have thrown it his way or chosen to step up and let things develop. Stepping up would have also opened up the possibility of scrambling into a WIDE open area of the field.
Instead, Alex forces a quick throw to a well-covered Harris, who can’t haul it in. This is the type of non-statistically deadly decision that costs teams games, to be perfectly honest. A play like this goes down as nothing but an incomplete pass, so it doesn’t harm QB rating or basic stats much. But the failure to hit the much more open player in a hurry to get the ball out of a perfectly good pocket is much worse than a simple incompletion.
Play 19 (3rd and 9)
Pocket presence matters.
Seth Keysor
✔
@RealMNchiefsfan
Play 20: 3rd and 9. Coverage is decent. Would need to hit Hill on the out right out of his break to beat the S OR get some mustard on it. Easier throw to Hunt on an in (bottom of screen) to get close to the maker. Alex completely loses his presence vs zero real pressure.
2:25 PM - Jan 9, 2018
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The Titans did a pretty nice job here, but Alex could have hit Hill on an out route (would’ve been a tough throw, but it’s one he’s made more than once), looked to Hunt shallow on an in route (bottom of screen) to gain a few yards, OR simply waited in a clean pocket and surveyed the field.
Instead, Alex panicked and tried to scramble, which is exactly what the spying LB was waiting for. Again, this is a play that doesn’t show up against a QB on the stats sheet, but kills drives.
It’s unfortunate if it appears I’m picking on Alex. I’m not. I’ve pointed out execution failures by multiple other players as well. But the reality is the last few plays featured calls that created opportunities and Alex did not seize them.
Play 20 (4th and 9)
The last play, and Andy (or Nagy) chose to go ultra-aggressive, which was a great call in that it forced 2 safeties to try and account for 3 vertical routes (worth noting Alex adjusted something before the snap that had everyone’s attention)
Seth Keysor
✔
@RealMNchiefsfan
Play 20: 4th and 9. Went with 3 verts (Alex adjusted SOMETHING before the snap, may not have been routes though). TEN covered it decently. I'd rather Alex throw it up to Smith here, but that ball was (barely) catchable for Wilson. Should've led him inside more though.
2:41 PM - Jan 9, 2018
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Alex had 3 vertical routes to choose from. Hill has separation but a safety bailing towards his side. I trust Hill in that situation, but it’s dicey (though I’d probably go that route given my trust in him).
Instead, Alex makes a decision that I also can get behind, throwing to Wilson down the numbers. Note the trajectory of Wilson’s route is taking him inside almost from the very start of the play. I ASSUME (but cannot know) that this is by design, forcing the deep safety to choose between him and the outside receiver.
The route works, and you can see the window to drop it in. However, instead of placing the ball down the seam, Alex’s throw drifts back outside towards the safety. Wilson, who isn’t known for his ball-in-the-air adjustments, tries to contort his body back and jump but can’t quite get there before getting creamed by the safety.
Seth Keysor
✔
@RealMNchiefsfan
Here's what I mean re. Alex's last throw of the game (and perhaps as a Chief). Fittingly, it's one people could argue about. Watch where Wilson is going and how he has to adjust late. Throw inside is much easier catch and protects him from the safety.
2:52 PM - Jan 9, 2018
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If you watch both gifs together, you can see the problem with the placement (it’s not an easy throw, so I’m not bashing Alex). Had that throw been placed down the seam for Wilson to run under, he has a much easier catch to make and doesn’t take a huge shot. It really is a game of inches. Or in this case, a few yards to the inside.
Takeaway
We’ve taken a long, long road to a short thought: the idea that Andy Reid or Matt Nagy should take the blame for the 2nd half performance by the offense is ridiculous. Outside of a single play call out of 20, the failures of the offense were those of blocking, receiving and quarterbacking. And it was not DIFFICULT things that were failed at by the players. Missed blocks, dropped passes, and pocket presence/reads were just bad on some plays.
Andy Reid is the head coach, and ultimately a loss falls on him. But the reality is that the plays called in the 2nd half gave the offense every opportunity to succeed. Saying otherwise is to ignore what actually happened on the field.
As I said at the beginning, it’s important to ask ourselves why we believe what we believe. I believe Reid is a good offensive coach because that’s what the film shows.]
pugsnotdrugs19
01-11-2018 01:32 PM
What I've been trying to say all week... far too much blame put on Reid/Nagy.
New World Order
01-11-2018 01:33 PM
QB Cuckening confirmed
Ming the Merciless
01-11-2018 01:34 PM
yep. anyone who was paying attention could see that it was poor execution......we couldve won the game as called...if the players executed.
This is beyond opinion and simply factual at this point.
Sure maybe we could have done 'better' with another game plan / play calls..that isnt the point here.... we couldve & shouldve WON with what we went with, had only we executed better...
bottom line
Mike in SW-MO
01-11-2018 01:54 PM
Shhhhhh.
It was all the play calling. Alex was GREAT!
He is totally worth a 1st round draft pick and more. ; )
crayzkirk
01-11-2018 02:16 PM
Unfortunately, it happens in a lot of sports. i was never at the level of professionals however I can remember bowling leagues where one team would start out really strong and then when the other team started to get hot, couldn't find a way to get a strike or spare.
I think we forget that these are people, Hill had just suffered a family loss, Kelce got targeted and Jones injured. Once the Tightens started mounting a comeback, it turned into a perfect storm that included fluke plays, bad decisions and from what I could tell, poor effort.
I believe this is why the Chiefs struggle so much when they are favored; there's no pressure when you are the underdog. They can't handle success.
rabblerouser
01-11-2018 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19
(Post 13354148)
What I've been trying to say all week... far too much blame put on Reid/Nagy.
Then it's on Alex to audible into a ****ing running play?
A good, quick hitting one. Like an ISO. not a R/PO.
Ffs.
rabblerouser
01-11-2018 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike in SW-MO
(Post 13354207)
Shhhhhh.
It was all the play calling. Alex was GREAT!
He is totally worth a 1st round draft pick and more. ; )
(Especially Cleveland's)
keg in kc
01-11-2018 03:05 PM
The only myth that needs to be shattered is treating Arrowhead Pride like it has some kind of journalistic value.
Hammock Parties
01-11-2018 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc
(Post 13354385)
The only myth that needs to be shattered is treating Arrowhead Pride like it has some kind of journalistic value.
The article is right.
There were ZERO screens called. The ONLY sideways pass was Alex taking a checkdown. And Alex had open receivers down the field.
Go look at the All 22 yourself if you doubt so.
jaa1025
01-11-2018 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc
(Post 13354385)
The only myth that needs to be shattered is treating Arrowhead Pride like it has some kind of journalistic value.
He does a fabulous breakdown of the all 22. And each play, some of his breakdown and some of Baldingers breakdown (links in the article) are in there to see. With the all 22, you can see the entire field and see open WR's, missed block, an open hole that the RB missed, happy feet etc. It's not opinion...you can see it all for yourself. He does offer his opinions in the article but also presents the evidence so you can make your own conclusions.
Yes, a lot of their articles are no different than any other blog website out there...but the all 22 articles by Seth Keysor are legit.
Easy 6
01-11-2018 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc
(Post 13354385)
The only myth that needs to be shattered is treating Arrowhead Pride like it has some kind of journalistic value.
Eh, thats not really fair IMO... some of those guys really do their homework and it shows in their pieces, like this one
arrwheader
01-11-2018 03:23 PM
Exactly. All the bickering back and forth about what the problem is and it comes down to the QB. If there’s a better qb than Smith back there we win that game despite all the other flukey BS. I bet we win that game of mahomes was back there but I get why some would disagree with that. Alex Smith is holding this team back and the Chiefs have got to move on.
keg in kc
01-11-2018 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties
(Post 13354397)
The article is right.
There were ZERO screens called. The ONLY sideways pass was Alex taking a checkdown. And Alex had open receivers down the field.
Go look at the All 22 yourself if you doubt so.
Alex Smith is always going to do what Alex Smith does when those plays are called in that situation, especially when his blankie is sidelined with a concussion. So why put the ball in his hands in the first place, knowing as we allllll do, that the first half was the aberration, that he almost never plays like that for four quarters.
That is why the problem was the play calling. Those plays were never going to be executed by him at that point. So they never should have been called in the first place.
At the end of the day it's all Andy Reid. He's the reason we have Smith in the first place, and he's the one with more than a decade's history of abandoning the run game in the most meaningful and damaging situations.
The only way we ever get beyond his limitations as a HC is if Mahomes turns into Aaron Rodgers. Because Andy is a bizarro-world passing-obsessed Marty Schottenheimer and the only thing that can overcome that is the arrival of a Joe Montana level talent behind center.
Coaching lost that game and no amount of sports blogging is going to change my mind about that, although I enjoy the effort.
Hammock Parties
01-11-2018 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc
(Post 13354491)
Alex Smith is always going to do what Alex Smith does when those plays are called in that situation, especially when his blankie is sidelined with a concussion. So why put the ball in his hands in the first place, knowing as we allllll do, that the first half was the aberration, that he almost never plays like that for four quarters
So you wanted the Chiefs to go FULL Martyball, when Kareem Hunt was getting shut down.
ROFL
If the Chiefs had just caught passes, or if Alex had made ONE throw at the end of the game, or if Butker had made his FG they probably would have won.
So, so, so not Andy Reid's fault.
2bikemike
01-11-2018 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties
(Post 13354500)
So you wanted the Chiefs to go FULL Martyball, when Kareem Hunt was getting shut down.
ROFL
If the Chiefs had just caught passes, or if Alex had made ONE throw at the end of the game, or if Butker had made his FG they probably would have won.
So, so, so not Andy Reid's fault.
You forgot the part about if the Defense would have made just one frigging stop in the 2nd Half!
Shag
01-11-2018 04:24 PM
These two crucial 3rd down plays really exemplify why Smith is what he is. In both cases, simply step up into the pocket, keep your eyes downfield, and you likely convert both times. So frustrating. Mahomes looks like he will excel at exactly this.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">6th play (3rd and 13). Note the routes. Fisher isn't great, but Alex HAS to step up and survey here. Instead, he bails and gets caught. Wilson (middle of field) is 1st down there if Alex just waits. But sure, tell me more about playcalling. <a href="https://t.co/D8Hmvh1Fzf">pic.twitter.com/D8Hmvh1Fzf</a></p>— Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/950590512704184325?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 9, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Play 20: 3rd and 9. Coverage is decent. Would need to hit Hill on the out right out of his break to beat the S OR get some mustard on it. Easier throw to Hunt on an in (bottom of screen) to get close to the maker. Alex completely loses his presence vs zero real pressure. <a href="https://t.co/uYG9zQSghy">pic.twitter.com/uYG9zQSghy</a></p>— Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/950825874294702080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 9, 2018</a></blockquote>
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TimBone
01-11-2018 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crayzkirk
(Post 13354252)
I think we forget that these are people, Hill had just suffered a family loss, Kelce got targeted and Jones injured. Once the Tightens started mounting a comeback, it turned into a perfect storm that included fluke plays, bad decisions and from what I could tell, poor effort.
There is no way that's an autocorrect. Wtf happened there, bro?
Mama Hip Rockets
01-11-2018 06:08 PM
The best running back in the NFL had 11 carries in the whole game, despite the fact, that the Chiefs had a double-digit lead for almost the entire game. That's poor playcalling.
Hammock Parties
01-11-2018 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thurman merman
(Post 13354937)
The best running back in the NFL had 11 carries in the whole game, despite the fact, that the Chiefs had a double-digit lead for almost the entire game. That's poor playcalling.
The best RB in the NFL was getting shut down.
He had a 16-yard run and averaged 2.6 YPC on the other 10.
crayzkirk
01-11-2018 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimBone
(Post 13354909)
There is no way that's an autocorrect. Wtf happened there, bro?
Intentional misspelling of Titans. From Megamind movie. Seemed appropriate. Makes the Chiefs failure seem a bit less disheartening.
Mama Hip Rockets
01-11-2018 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties
(Post 13354939)
The best RB in the NFL was getting shut down.
He had a 16-yard run and averaged 2.6 YPC on the other 10.
I wouldn't call 3.8 YPC "shut down." Plus, it's not all about YPC. It's about running out clock, keeping your defense off the field, grinding out tough yards, and wearing the other defense out. Throwing three straight short passes/incompletions when you're up by two or three scores does nothing but open up the floodgates for a comeback.
hitchief
01-11-2018 06:16 PM
once again with the all22.
Any douche can go thru a game and find plays were even Brady screws up or Rodgers. Its just plain stupid to be looking at the plays from above when the players on the field don't see it that way. Don't know why some of you idiots don't get that. They don't have a helmet cam that shows everything like that and does this guy tell us what the progression was? Got to know that cause every play has a progression, which most don't also seem to understand, so even if a wr breaks open he may not bee seen due to the progression. This is basic stuff but not in this place.
Hammock Parties
01-11-2018 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thurman merman
(Post 13354950)
I wouldn't call 3.8 YPC "shut down." Plus, it's not all about YPC. It's about running out clock, keeping your defense off the field, grinding out tough yards, and wearing the other defense out. Throwing three straight short passes/incompletions when you're up by two or three scores does nothing but open up the floodgates for a comeback.
Andy Reid didn't tell Smith to check it down, dude. Nor did he drop the passes.
I can't BELIEVE there are people on here advocating for Martyball. Reid is damned no matter what he does.
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 06:21 PM
Yet Brees won because his defense was able to stop the dynamic Cam Newton who didn’t even give their offense a chance to make a game winning play by taking a sack. Sorry this has no validity. Brady lost to Eli how many times? Rodgers had a chance to get his team into the playoffs and choked.
Hammock Parties
01-11-2018 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchief
(Post 13354960)
even if a wr breaks open he may not bee seen due to the progression.
That's a bunch of ****ing bullshit that loses playoff games.
pugsnotdrugs19
01-11-2018 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitchief
(Post 13354960)
once again with the all22.
Any douche can go thru a game and find plays were even Brady screws up or Rodgers. Its just plain stupid to be looking at the plays from above when the players on the field don't see it that way. Don't know why some of you idiots don't get that. They don't have a helmet cam that shows everything like that and does this guy tell us what the progression was? Got to know that cause every play has a progression, which most don't also seem to understand, so even if a wr breaks open he may not bee seen due to the progression. This is basic stuff but not in this place.
That's stupid as ****. It should easier to see some of those guys open from where Smith is. Harris and Wilson both flashed in front of his face. As the QB, surely to God he knows what the routes are before the play happens. You should be able to anticipate those openings.
The guy decided to try to scramble for yards, which he failed at, as opposed to giving one of his receivers a chance to make a play. Hell, not even that. Just a simple catch.
And DO NOT give me some bullshit response about how they might drop the pass. If they do, then ok, that's their fault. But it's the QBs job to give them the chance.
pugsnotdrugs19
01-11-2018 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENKINSWINS
(Post 13354968)
Yet Brees won because his defense was able to stop the dynamic Cam Newton who didn’t even give their offense a chance to make a game winning play by taking a sack. Sorry this has no validity. Brady lost to Eli how many times? Rodgers had a chance to get his team into the playoffs and choked.
Do you think the Saints even have that lead if not for Drew Brees making tons of plays throughout the game? LMAO
Hammock Parties
01-11-2018 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENKINSWINS
(Post 13354968)
Yet Brees won because his defense was able to stop the dynamic Cam Newton
The Panthers scored more points than the Titans.
Brees put up 31, including 10 in the second half, and threw for more yards on the opening drive of the third quarter than Smith did the entire second half.
Please stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19
(Post 13354985)
Do you think the Saints even have that lead if not for Drew Brees making tons of plays throughout the game? LMAO
He also threw an int that gave them a chance to lose the game but his defense stepped up in the final seconds. Do the Titans have to make a comeback if it wasn’t for Smith making plays?
The only myth that needs to be shattered is treating Arrowhead Pride like it has some kind of journalistic value.
:clap: These dudes posing as professionals are a damn joke
Easy 6
01-11-2018 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thurman merman
(Post 13354950)
I wouldn't call 3.8 YPC "shut down." Plus, it's not all about YPC. It's about running out clock, keeping your defense off the field, grinding out tough yards, and wearing the other defense out. Throwing three straight short passes/incompletions when you're up by two or three scores does nothing but open up the floodgates for a comeback.
Lotta truth here, you cant LET teams shut you down... gotta keep grinding, it pays off eventually
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties
(Post 13354989)
The Panthers scored more points than the Titans.
Brees put up 31, including 10 in the second half, and threw for more yards on the opening drive of the third quarter than Smith did the entire second half.
Please stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
You can’t be serious, it still came down to the defense at the end for Brees and the offense for Cam Newton. The point is the Saints defense came up with a play when it counted not Brees.
Easy 6
01-11-2018 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball
(Post 13354998)
:clap: These dudes posing as professionals are a damn joke
Man, Klemcko at Sports Illustrated doesnt know the difference between fazed and phased
Just looking around at the state of sports journalism these days, I'd put the top guys at AP over some of the so called pros... its not like sportswriting takes a PhD in Genius
TimBone
01-11-2018 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crayzkirk
(Post 13354947)
Intentional misspelling of Titans. From Megamind movie. Seemed appropriate. Makes the Chiefs failure seem a bit less disheartening.
Oh, haha...I guess I'll buy that.
Pasta Little Brioni
01-11-2018 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy 6
(Post 13355007)
Man, Klemcko at Sports Illustrated doesnt know the difference between fazed and phased
Just looking around at the state of sports journalism these days, I'd put the top guys at AP over some of the so called pros... its not like sportswriting takes a PhD in Genius
I agree with that, but this particular dude tries too hard and fails miserably.
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy 6
(Post 13354999)
Lotta truth here, you cant LET teams shut you down... gotta keep grinding, it pays off eventually
How do you keep the defense off the field when the other team is dominating them with long drives? Ried didn’t make adjustments and went into panick mode as he often does. He had no answers for what the Titans were doing on both sides. Kelce going down didn’t help much either. Even the great Tom Brady struggled when he lost his super star tight end for a while this season.
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigeRRUppeRRcut
(Post 13354994)
Dan Patrick wouldn't know what his own dick was if it slapped him upside the head.
He's an old, lazy, clueless talking head.
Hammock Parties
01-11-2018 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENKINSWINS
(Post 13355002)
You can’t be serious.
JenkinsLOSES
Hammock Parties
01-11-2018 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy 6
(Post 13355007)
Just looking around at the state of sports journalism these days, I'd put the top guys at AP over some of the so called pros... its not like sportswriting takes a PhD in Genius
Dan Cheaptrick hasn't watched a second of All 22 film from that Chiefs game.
RunKC
01-11-2018 06:48 PM
So the Alex only fans are blaming Andy now?
Good. Alex won’t be with him next year. Fixed that problem!
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties
(Post 13355057)
JenkinsLOSES
That’s what I thought. Can’t cone back with something good enough. According to everyone here Cam Newton lost that game and Drew Brees didn’t win that game if you’re using the same logic you use against Alex.
Hammock Parties
01-11-2018 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENKINSWINS
(Post 13355082)
That’s what I thought. Can’t cone back with something good enough. According to everyone here Cam Newton lost that game and Drew Brees didn’t win that game if you’re using the same logic you use against Alex.
Alex is welcome to receive my fellatio when he puts up 31 points and 376 yards passing in a playoff game.
pugsnotdrugs19
01-11-2018 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC
(Post 13355065)
So the Alex only fans are blaming Andy now?
Good. Alex won’t be with him next year. Fixed that problem!
Everyone seems to want to blame Andy in the media/radio game.. some will throw Nagy's name in there too even though he seems to get more of a pass.
It's bullshit IMO. If Andy deserves blame for anything, it's not making Sutton adjust his schemes. The offense was schemed fine, per usual.
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC
(Post 13355065)
So the Alex only fans are blaming Andy now?
Good. Alex won’t be with him next year. Fixed that problem!
No. Sports media is blaming him. Google it, look on YouTube, or look at the video posted on this thread.
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19
(Post 13355089)
Everyone seems to want to blame Andy in the media/radio game.. some will throw Nagy's name in there too even though he seems to get more of a pass.
It's bullshit IMO. If Andy deserves blame for anything, it's not making Sutton adjust his schemes. The offense was schemed fine, per usual.
This is something I can kind of agree with. Sutton should’ve been questioned mid season when his defense wasn’t getting it done. Whatever change they made towards the end of the season was gone in the second half.
Easy 6
01-11-2018 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENKINSWINS
(Post 13355019)
How do you keep the defense off the field when the other team is dominating them with long drives?
You want an honest answer?
PRESSURE
Garbage QB Mariota would've wilted like a daisy under the broiler, he couldnt have found his ass with both hands under real pressure at Arrowhead
They had to come back from 18 down on the road, and you prevent that with PRESSURE... sure some bum like him will hit here and there on a lucky pass, but you play run blitz pressure on a running (bad passer) QB
TigeRRUppeRRcut
01-11-2018 07:13 PM
Gee I wonder why people are blaming Andy... It's not like he has a history of choking. - CP
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy 6
(Post 13355126)
You want an honest answer?
PRESSURE
Garbage QB Mariota would've wilted like a daisy under the broiler, he couldnt have found his ass with both hands under real pressure at Arrowhead
They had to come back from 18 down on the road, and you prevent that with PRESSURE... sure some bum like him will hit here and there on a lucky pass, but you play run blitz pressure on a running (bad passer) QB
Wow, an honest answer that didn’t involve a player that’s not on the field when the other offense is. Thank you and I agree that would’ve been effective against the Titans lower than average offense.
suzzer99
01-11-2018 07:16 PM
Anyone think maybe Reid's practices are too soft and that's why we fade in the second half? That was the knock on Herm.
I'll hang up and listen.
RunKC
01-11-2018 07:18 PM
Fact: Andy had a winning playoff record until he started working with Alex Smith.
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
(Post 13355142)
Anyone think maybe Reid's practices are too soft and that's why we fade in the second half? That was the knock on Herm.
I'll hang up and listen.
Gruden got the Bucs over the hump and Kerr did the same with the Warriors. You could be on to something.
Sandy Vagina
01-11-2018 07:25 PM
It's over, folks. One or two plays go KC's way? and they win. Didn't happen.
Shake it off, and move on. Too much outrage.. you'd think people here actually expected to win through the playoffs. :shrug:
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy Vagina
(Post 13355161)
It's over, folks. One or two plays go KC's way? and they win. Didn't happen.
Shake it off, and move on. Too much outrage.. you'd think people here actually expected to win through the playoffs. :shrug:
Yup, not with that defense and Kelce probably ruled out. Any news on his injury?
Sandy Vagina
01-11-2018 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENKINSWINS
(Post 13355164)
Yup, not with that defense and Kelce probably ruled out. Any news on his injury?
Have heard nothing of Kelce, but just assumed he would have plenty of time now to recover from the concussion.
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy Vagina
(Post 13355184)
Have heard nothing of Kelce, but just assumed he would have plenty of time now to recover from the concussion.
He’s been concussed a lot if my memory serves me right. Hope he’s not plagued with a concussion filled career. He’s the best tight end in the game when he’s not letting his emotions get the best of him.
BigRedChief
01-11-2018 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball
(Post 13354998)
:clap: These dudes posing as professionals are a damn joke
professional or not, he makes a good argument and backs it up with evidence to support his thesis.
ChiefsCountry
01-11-2018 07:54 PM
It's going to be so nice to get rid of these loser Alex Smith fans.
TigeRRUppeRRcut
01-11-2018 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball
(Post 13354998)
:clap: These dudes posing as professionals are a damn joke
I really enjoy when Geoff Schwartz critiques their breakdowns.
Fanside is definitely the worst of them all tho.
jaa1025
01-11-2018 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry
(Post 13355211)
It's going to be so nice to get rid of these loser Alex Smith fans.
Hopefully they follow him to Cleveland.
iDeaL
01-11-2018 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy Vagina
(Post 13355161)
It's over, folks. One or two plays go KC's way? and they win. Didn't happen.
Shake it off, and move on. Too much outrage.. you'd think people here actually expected to win through the playoffs. :shrug:
This is true, and I have pretty much shaken off the loss and do want to move on, but many people are still advocating for Alex to return. I don't think that's moving on. That's wanting to rehash this again next year. Its madness. If we bring Alex back at $17mil, where are we going to find enough money to improve in other areas? Berry will help but he can't do everything. Keeping Alex around would be staying with the status quo, which has shown not to be enough in these last few seasons. Status quo is another one and done in the playoffs.
JENKINSWINS
01-11-2018 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDeaL
(Post 13355281)
This is true, and I have pretty much shaken off the loss and do want to move on, but many people are still advocating for Alex to return. I don't think that's moving on. That's wanting to rehash this again next year. Its madness. If we bring Alex back at $17mil, where are we going to find enough money to improve in other areas? Berry will help but he can't do everything. Keeping Alex around would be staying with the status quo, which has shown not to be enough in these last few seasons. Status quo is another one and done in the playoffs.
Who’s saying Alex should be around? All I see is a bunch of people putting the loss on him. Making the change needs to happen but improving isn’t guaranteed like your saying it is. One and done in the playoffs could still be the status quo.
NJChiefsFan
01-11-2018 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENKINSWINS
(Post 13355048)
This shatters this thread.
Andy deserves plenty of blame but he wasn't the only person involved in that 2013 debacle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENKINSWINS
(Post 13355094)
No. Sports media is blaming him. Google it, look on YouTube, or look at the video posted on this thread.
Sports media is also blaming Alex, so what's your point here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy Vagina
(Post 13355161)
It's over, folks. One or two plays go KC's way? and they win. Didn't happen.
Shake it off, and move on. Too much outrage.. you'd think people here actually expected to win through the playoffs. :shrug:
Easy to do when you are not emotionally attached having bounced from a different team and have not confirmed an intention of being a Chiefs fan only in the future. Not hard to figure out why we can't shake it off vs you.
And no, despite the pain, I don't prefer your alternative.
"Only if you have been in the deepest valley, can you ever know how magnificent it is to be on the highest mountain." - Richard M. Nixon
Pasta Little Brioni
01-11-2018 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigeRRUppeRRcut
(Post 13355226)
I really enjoy when Geoff Schwartz critiques their breakdowns.
Fanside is definitely the worst of them all tho.
Most definitely.
Reerun_KC
01-11-2018 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry
(Post 13355211)
It's going to be so nice to get rid of these loser Alex Smith fans.
Yes please.
Mama Hip Rockets
01-11-2018 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties
(Post 13355086)
Alex is welcome to receive my fellatio when he puts up 31 points and 376 yards passing in a playoff game.
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties
(Post 13355582)
Yep. Another wasted season.
Pretty decent season considering all the injuries. Losing Ware was huge especially with Hunt being an unknown. Eric Berry going down had a major impact on the defense. Hill being transformed into a deep threat WR and going into the season not having a true #1 (letting Maclin go). Who knew it was going to work? Conley goes down which set the offense back a little. Then Kelce goes down after dominating the Titans at a home playoff game. Wasted? Maybe just un****ing lucky or cursed.
TigeRRUppeRRcut
01-11-2018 11:47 PM
It's for those reasons about injuries that I really like the winner of Saints /Vikings this weekend.
Would love to see Tom Brady or Ben lose to one of those two.
Hammock Parties
01-12-2018 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENKINSWINS
(Post 13355619)
Pretty decent season considering all the injuries. Losing Ware was huge especially with Hunt being an unknown. Eric Berry going down had a major impact on the defense. Hill being transformed into a deep threat WR and going into the season not having a true #1 (letting Maclin go). Who knew it was going to work? Conley goes down which set the offense back a little. Then Kelce goes down after dominating the Titans at a home playoff game. Wasted? Maybe just un****ing lucky or cursed.
You're a rube.
Titty Meat
01-12-2018 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower
(Post 13354158)
yep. anyone who was paying attention could see that it was poor execution......we couldve won the game as called...if the players executed.
This is beyond opinion and simply factual at this point.
Sure maybe we could have done 'better' with another game plan / play calls..that isnt the point here.... we couldve & shouldve WON with what we went with, had only we executed better...
bottom line
How much do you out on Smith? Game was clinched if Butter hits that FG. Shit if Charles catches it too. Had Kelce been in that's a touchdown.
Coogs
01-12-2018 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titty Meat
(Post 13355651)
How much do you out on Smith? Game was clinched if Butter hits that FG. Shit if Charles catches it too. Had Kelce been in that's a touchdown.
How do you figure it's clinched? That makes it 24-10. Titans score 2 more TD's. 24-24 most likely. Down 22-21 Smith couldn't make it happen. Probably doesn't at 24 all either.
HemiEd
01-12-2018 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thurman merman
(Post 13354937)
The best running back in the NFL had 11 carries in the whole game, despite the fact, that the Chiefs had a double-digit lead for almost the entire game. That's poor playcalling.
They mentioned the two same plays I have brought up numerous times.
Hunt runs for nine, leaving third and one. QB read option gets stuffed.
I just can't rewatch the game past that point.
crayzkirk
01-12-2018 07:35 AM
One thing that wasn't mentioned about the Saints/Panthers game is how the Saints defense bent and didn't break for four field goals. If the Chiefs had bent instead of broken on any one of those second half drives, the Chiefs would have won. For some reason, this team seems to lose key players at the exact wrong time in games.
The Titans took out Kelce, doubled Hill and stacked the line to stop Hunt. I'm pretty sure that I've read on this board that the way to beat the Chiefs is to make Smith throw the difficult passes (mid-range). It appeared to me during the game that Alex gave up too early and left a couple of clean pockets in the second half. Where did that WTF attitude go?
I still don't understand why they don't run more play action or bring the sausage into the backfield and simply use him for a lead block on those short yardage plays. Teams stacking the box are taking a big risk because if a hole opens, the running back is gone.
Shattering Myths: The Chiefs second half offensive failures
(https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=313165)