Wrong temperament.

He gets mad when someone hits him and tries to throw the next one through a wall. He doesn't get time to settle in before all hell has broken loose.

Additionally, his heat loses movement low in the zone and his breaking stuff needs a lot of use to stay sharp because his best breaker was a curve. So in relief he can't use his off speed pitches enough to stay sharp and can't throw a quality low fastball so he's left with pumping high gas. Hitters know it so they lay off. He nibbles and ends up walking guys instead of challenging them when they know what's coming. It gets worse because his primary breaking ball now is a change and it's nearly impossible to tunnel one of those off the back of a high fastball. A high change up is batting practice so when he throws it, it's telegraphed by virtue of its location. If it's high, it's hard. If it's low, it's slow. His stuff and makeup are not a fit for the 9th at this point.

He will absolutely make a better starter than reliever if they can find him the innings to rediscover his curve and develop his change. I don't think you realize how highly regarded his secondary pitches were coming up; considered at one point to have the best breaking ball and see on best change in the system. In a system that had Martinez and a healthy Wacha at the time, that's impressive as hell.

Card fans really want to get rid of that fat ****.




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He is a genuine starting player in Hope only. Much the same way people thought of Colon 2 years ago. He is NOT as big a difference as you are making it out to be.

Your WRC+ comparison is cherry picked in from last season (where they both got limited plate appearances off the bench). Colon had his worst season as a pro, I expect that from some people in this thread, but not you DJ. You're usually much more level headed than that. Christian's wRC+ in 2015 was 93 and Greg's was 101. Not nearly a big a gap as you are making out.

Over their Careers (through the Minors) they are much closer as well. Hell in 2014 (either ones last full season) - Christian showed a 110 in AAA and Greg put up a 96. I don't look at that as such a drastic difference in player.

Sure Greg gets on base a bit more than Colon throughout his career. Colon is a bit better defensively. but again... we're not talking about swapping them straight up. We're talking about in the context of having him as a centerpiece for a trade of Moustakas... which to me is ASININE to consider when you have a similar player, similar age, and costs\control already on the roster... even with the very small difference in overall performance.

You say 'hope' whereas I say 'knowledge'.

I base it on the fact that I've watched him play a fair amount and despite minimal ABs in 15, he had a very similar approach in '15 as well. He was BABIP lucky in '16 and unlucky in '15 (though his xBABIP in '16 was .359 due to an outstanding LD rate; he squared the ball up a TON last year). He's not a .150 ISO hitter because he can't drive a pitch on the outer half but if you try to come inside on him, he can rope it so he's probably more along the lines of a .110-120 ISO hitter.

Based on a couple of seasons of virtually identical approach at the big league level broken up by an entire offseason (a huge factor in determining sustainability), you can combine the numbers with the eyes and come up with a fair projection.

Over 600 ABs I think you're looking at a .270/.365/.390 hitter. Based on last year's figures, that probably gets you an wRC+ in the 103-105 range which is very respectable for a 2b. It's not superstar stuff, but it's in the 2 range for oWAR. Positional adjustments and defensive acumen would then push him nearer the 4 range I previously suggested.

Again - it's not just numbers, its approach and how it translates. Colon's xBABIP last year was .307 and his real BABIP was .287; his BABIP was lower than Garcia's because it should have been, by a lot. And if he was unlucky, by xBABIP, Garcia was as well. It's a simple answer, really - a MISERABLE IFFB rate - the guy just pops it straight up a lot. He has his whole career. 16% of his ABs have ended in IFFBs for his career. Know how many of Garcia's career ABs have ended with infield pop? Zero. Ever. It's just another indicator that shows the gap in approach at the plate. Colon swings at too many pitches including pitches that he shouldn't so his hard contact rate is lower as is his number of easy outs. Those kinds of outs can't move runners and aren't likely to fall in. That's why he has a fairly low BABIP. Garcia, OTOH, is a battler at the plate and will get a pitch to put wood on at some point. If he doesn't, he'll take the walk.

The guy is simply an inferior offensive player to Garcia. You can say I'm simply hinging it on hope but the reality is that you're burying your head here. Of course I'm speculating, but that's why a savvy GM (or fan) should be doing.

And yet again - he's not the 'centerpiece' of a Moustakas trade. That's Lance Lynn. As Duncan noted, Lynn and Moustakas would probably be of roughly equal value if both were healthy and played to their normal seasons. Neither one of them are. And while Lynn's arm injury is scary, lets not act like a hitter doesn't get his power from his legs; Moustakas's ACL injury is equally scary (it's second only to a wrist injury to a hitter, IMO). Lynn for Moustakas is just about there. Garcia's a mere kicker in this deal and a very good one at that.

"In the best shape of his life...."

{Blows out quad slowly jogging around 1b}

That lazy one who sucks the penis is the reason we had to trade for Brandon Moss. He's the reason we have to move Carpenter over to 1b and play Jhonny ****ing Peralta at 3b (though Carpenter is a middling defender at 3b at best).

If he would have taken this whole 'baseball' thing seriously at any point in the last 3-4 years, he could've been a genuinely good player. The guy hit at every level coming up but he made it to the majors, convinced himself he'd 'arrived' and now it's just the annual march towards watching that out of shape bastard injure himself doing something that any normal 20 something adult could do without getting hurt.

It's not the poor play that irritates me, it's his open ambivalence towards his job. The guy was handed the starting base job for one of the top franchises in MLB and he just decided to **** off. You don't take the baton from a HoFer and proceed to wipe your ass with it. **** Matt Adams.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rockies are making a big push for Greg Holland, and word is they are getting close to a deal</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/824311490169733122">January 25, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

:spock:

Really? I'm not familiar with all the channels for scouting and the like, but how would they have any idea of how his recovery is going? Do they let other teams in to watch practices?

Holland is a free man, I'm sure he's letting anyone watch who can stroke a check

I thought he'd been holding workouts for teams that were interested.

The Nats seemed like a natural fit (man, what the hell are they going to do at closer?).

If they want to see Holland throw, they tell his agent "hey, you wanna let us see him throw" and it gets done. Alternatively, a lot of guys will have group workouts where everyone is invited to watch the throwing session.

Shit. My bad. I thought he had another year. Nevermind.

Colorado is such a weird choice for a pitcher.



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Deal i's done.

Still think he should have gone to the nats.

With his current velo I'm okay that we took a pass.

I wish nothing but the best for him in Denver, though!

That would have been a better fit, probably.

I'm always going to remember the HDH days. God it was fun watching ****ers squirm in the batters box.

It's probably a function of money. Like really a function of money. Like f($) kind of function of money.

Just a guess.