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-   -   Cardinals ***Official 2022 STL Cardinals Thread*** (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=343036)

VAChief 12-07-2022 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 16651842)
He's a good player but his value is heavily reliant on his bat and the fact that he can catch, but he isn't a catcher. He does not get good marks for his work behind the plate or his work with pitchers. I really dont see how that fits the Cardinals philosophy on catching but hey...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Catcher Willson Contreras and the St. Louis Cardinals are in agreement on a five-year, $87.5 million contract, a source familiar with the deal tells ESPN.</p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1600551569262452736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Got 5 years to figure it out.
They must really think Herrera is dog ###

2-3 years I could live with for him (not that he would sign for that), but this is just classic Mo...just long enough that when he craps out by the all star break, you get to realize the pain will continue for another 4 1/2 years.

DJ's left nut 12-07-2022 12:11 PM
He just keeps getting burned by the same dumb deal for B tier players on the back side of their careers.

How can you have Fowler, Leake, Cecil and Miller on your resume over the last 5 years and think this is a good idea?

VAChief 12-07-2022 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16651861)
He just keeps getting burned by the same dumb deal for B tier players on the back side of their careers.

How can you have Fowler, Leake, Cecil and Miller on your resume over the last 5 years and think this is a good idea?
He probably thought he could get Murphy for DeJong and Noot and then reality sunk in... and when he said catcher was a priority, panicked and took what he thought was a face saver.

Your right, Fowler is the perfect comp.

jd1020 12-07-2022 12:39 PM
Definitely going to get more production out of catcher than you've had in the majority of the last 9 seasons, but it might come at the cost of your entire pitching staff doing worse.

Ocotillo 12-07-2022 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 16651929)
Definitely going to get more production out of catcher than you've had in the majority of the last 9 seasons, but it might come at the cost of your entire pitching staff doing worse.
When you consider automated strike zone may come during Contreras' contract, it goes back to maybe his defense won't hamstring us as much as previous years.

As soon as the two-pickoff rule was implemented, guys with quicker pop times like Contreras saw their interest rise.

Mecca 12-07-2022 12:46 PM
If his bat stays viable, he’s worth it. If it doesn’t, he’s a zero sum player.

jd1020 12-07-2022 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 16651954)
As soon as the two-pickoff rule was implemented, guys with quicker pop times like Contreras saw their interest rise.
His interest rose so much the team that has had him in their system since 2009 had literally 0 interest in extending him beyond his controlled years. Even Dusty Baker didn't want him on the Astros at the deadline when they had ****ing Martin Maldonado starting, and Baker doesn't give a **** about pitchers.

Ocotillo 12-07-2022 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 16651968)
His interest rose so much the team that has had him in their system since 2009 had literally 0 interest in extending him beyond his controlled years. Even Dusty Baker didn't want him on the Astros at the deadline when they had ****ing Martin Maldonado starting.
It's a business decision for the Cubs. They don't want to put dollars into a 30-year-old catcher when they have no foundational players and not even a prospect outside of Cristian Hernandez that they can really hang their hat on.

Even though I think Contreras is overrated, I think he can make the deal worthwhile. He did lead the NL in catcher OPS according to the Bill James Handbook. You're going to pay for that. He's been a subpar defensive catcher, but the catching tools were always there. He's a good athlete. I just feel like the Cardinals see an opportunity with him to smooth out some of his edges with rule changes coming.

jd1020 12-07-2022 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 16652027)
It's a business decision for the Cubs. They don't want to put dollars into a 30-year-old catcher when they have no foundational players and not even a prospect outside of Cristian Hernandez that they can really hang their hat on.
Cristian Hernandez as their lone prospect... ROFL

Ocotillo 12-07-2022 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 16652037)
Cristian Hernandez as their lone prospect... ROFL
I actually loved their system pre-2022 because they had a lot of high-ceiling, high-risk lower level guys.

I just feel like many of their most promising guys like Kevin Alcantara, Reginald Preciado, James Triantos didn't take that big step forward this past season and solidify themselves.

Alexander Canario was nice to see. I still don't know if he's a first-division player.

I totally forgot about Pete Crow-Armstrong, too. He's actually a high floor prospect that I should be raving about.

jd1020 12-07-2022 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 16652069)
I actually loved their system pre-2022 because they had a lot of high-ceiling, high-risk lower level guys.

I just feel like many of their most promising guys like Kevin Alcantara, Reginald Preciado, James Triantos didn't take that big step forward this past season and solidify themselves.

Alexander Canario was nice to see. I still don't know if he's a first-division player.

I totally forgot about Pete Crow-Armstrong, too. He's actually a high floor prospect that I should be raving about.
Totally understandable. Easy to forget about their #1 prospect rated by every publication and say that the 18 year old who struggled in rookie ball is the only one in the system.

Ocotillo 12-07-2022 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 16652080)
Totally understandable. Easy to forget about their #1 prospect rated by every publication and say that the 18 year old who struggled in rookie ball is the only one in the system.
The reports are glowing on Hernandez.

He has a 50 future value for an 18-year-old on Fangraphs. He's ranked 57th overall on Fangraphs.

jd1020 12-07-2022 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 16652120)
The reports are glowing on Hernandez.

He has a 50 future value for an 18-year-old on Fangraphs. He's ranked 57th overall on Fangraphs.
How many players does Fangraphs rate above the only prospect in the Cubs system?

Ocotillo 12-07-2022 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 16652139)
How many players does Fangraphs rate above the only prospect in the Cubs system?
My whole point being is that the Cubs lack foundational pieces and Cristian Hernandez is someone I saw as a foundational piece in a farm system that doesn't have the surefire foundational pieces, albeit talented depth.

Pete Crow-Armstrong is more likely Kevin Kiermaier, Harrison Bader to me, but he's still young and building his resume.

BigRedChief 12-07-2022 01:53 PM
Yeah typical move. Expected by all here.


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