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-   -   Science Scientists find cosmic ripples from birth of universe (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=282341)

J Diddy 03-19-2014 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycoffey (Post 10501462)
Could be, and realism is harsh enough to probably confirm it.

The thought of being special though, is unique to humans, poetry, love (sex for pleasure not just procreation). The extras over and beyond just animalistic instincts to survive or live.

Dogs have been companions to mankind since the written word, yet humans have dreamt and see the dreams fullfilled; air travel, internal combustion, jet propulsion, travel to the moon, see the ripples created by the birth of the universe on a telescope.....

It's hard to accept some realities, but humans not having a special quality and are just like any other animal, not true.

Does that mean any of the religions are right? I didn't say that....

What do we possess that is unique to us? We are gifted in that evolution fell our way, but there's nothing in us that isn't a chemical predisposition that is imposed on us through the transfer of genetic material. The transfer of that material was made possible because it aided our survival for long enough to allow us to pass our genes on.

If you can accept that and a higher being, kudos, you believe what I do. If you can't I repeat, kudos, I can't speak for you.

crazycoffey 03-19-2014 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Bull (Post 10501487)
What do we possess that is unique to us? We are gifted in that evolution fell our way, but there's nothing in us that isn't a chemical predisposition that is imposed on us through the transfer of genetic material. The transfer of that material was made possible because it aided our survival for long enough to allow us to pass our genes on.

If you can accept that and a higher being, kudos, you believe what I do. If you can't I repeat, kudos, I can't speak for you.

My point is in the same quantifiable thousands of years of evolution in humans/mankind is measurable, dogs not so much.

So it's easy to correlate that "evolution" into "special" qualities. Now is that just happenstance, primortal sludge going our way, or a devine design. We don't know, we think either science or religion points respective directions but in truth we just don't know.

It could be one or the other, maybe something we haven't thought of or "discovered" yet, or some combination of those. So we mask this primal ignorance into beliefs; of religion or science or some combination, so we can "explain" the truth we can't even comprehend (or may be ever able to comprehend)

crazycoffey 03-19-2014 03:38 AM

Oh and iirc penguins are the only other mammal having sex for pleasure. Or so scientists say....

Messier 03-19-2014 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 10501472)
The thought of wanting o be special is somewhat unique to humans. All other emotions you listed including sex for pleasure are demonstrated by members of the animal kingdom. Oh yeah and they dream too, they just don't have opposable thumbs to be able to build stuff.

We're back off topic.

But, that's not true. There is a ton that the human mind is capable of that no other creature has. Humans, more importantly the human mind is the coolest thing ever.

htismaqe 03-19-2014 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmw4h5 (Post 10501230)
This thread sums up why the midwest sucks and why our country is far behind others in science and mathematics.

Science and religion are not mutually exclusive. The big difference that I see is exactly what you saw with Nye vs Ham.

You give Nye evidence and you can change his mind. You give Ham evidence and he points to a book written thousands of years ago and refuses to accept your evidence.

Bill Nye wouldn't know evidence if it hit him in the face. The fact that people cling to him as a spokesman for "science" is hilarious.

Put this thread in DC where it belongs.

Messier 03-19-2014 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10501518)
Bill Nye wouldn't know evidence if it hit him in the face. The fact that people cling to him as a spokesman for "science" is hilarious.

Put this thread in DC where it belongs.

I agree, with the DC part.

Tombstone RJ 03-19-2014 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 10500861)
I guess reading is not your thing. It's been explained 3-4 times in this very thread. So I'll assume you don't want to discuss it.

No, it hasn't been explained at all. You did a few early posts about the quantifiable measurement of time which did not exist before the big bang:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 10499334)
If anybody ever cares to check on it, you should google what's called Planck time you will find amazing things happening in time iso small it's almost immeasurable. That's what they're talking about in the video and what the guy was talking about in the other video about billions of trillionths of trillionths of seconds when you get down to a certain level it's called Planck time.

If you have a scientific mind you will be amazed.

This doesn't answer the question of how something came out of nothing. Then you say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 10499351)
Planck's time is the time it takes for light to travel Planck's length. Actions across lengths less than this boundary have no meaning because distance/relativity stop and quantum mechanics take over at Planck's length. The smallest length (Planck's length) divided by the fastest speed (the speed of light), is the time it takes for the fastest thing to travel the shortest distance. Thus, times shorter than Planck's time do not make sense.

Guess what, time and energy (light) and space did not exist before the big bang, so this post does not address how everything came out of nothing. Do you even understand what nothing is?

Here's the same question by another poster:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleThreat (Post 10499446)
So what made the tiny speck that created the universe? Where did it come from? Haha

Then you post this which does not answer the question of the big bang, but is more of a philosophical discussion on how the universe came into existence:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 10500051)
Probably. There is some photographic evidence that supports it. I can't imagine this is the only universe. I'm kind of partial to the bubble multiverse.

Bubble Universes...

http://i.space.com/images/i/000/024/...jpg?1354898128

That's pretty, but completely useless. Thanks for nothing, again. Then you post this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane (Post 10500072)
Absolutely. It's mans greatest achievements that we have come to discover things so vastly far away and those so vastly small as well. I can't imagine anything more interesting or awe inspiring. I saw a quasar 10 billion light years away. Thats

6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles away. Thats impressive in my book.

Again, this has nothing to do with how the big bang started. Then there is this 2 hour video which is nothing but conjecture and more philosphical discussion than it is hard science:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRU (Post 10500324)
Lawrence Krauss has answers to that.

"Krauss's latest book, A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing, explains the scientific advances that provide insight into how the universe formed. Krauss tackles the age-old assumption that something cannot arise from nothing by arguing that not only can something arise from nothing, but something will always arise from nothing."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YUe0_4rdj0U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is where Krauss likes to talk about magic, that is, the creation of something (or everything) from nothing. Of couse, this breaks every single scientific law and is complete speculation based more on faith than on facts, hard science and provable theories, it's a discussion on magic. You won't call it that but people like me who have common sense see it for what it is, a discussion on magic.

Tombstone RJ 03-19-2014 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensual Lardass (Post 10500757)
Here's another question........what is the universe expanding in to? What was here before?

yep, how can an expanding universe be expanding into nothing?

Fish 03-19-2014 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazycoffey (Post 10501462)
Could be, and realism is harsh enough to probably confirm it.

The thought of being special though, is unique to humans, poetry, love (sex for pleasure not just procreation). The extras over and beyond just animalistic instincts to survive or live.

Dogs have been companions to mankind since the written word, yet humans have dreamt and see the dreams fullfilled; air travel, internal combustion, jet propulsion, travel to the moon, see the ripples created by the birth of the universe on a telescope.....

It's hard to accept some realities, but humans not having a special quality and are just like any other animal, not true.

Does that mean any of the religions are right? I didn't say that....

Sex for pleasure isn't unique to humans by any means. If you include masturbation, there are many many species that participate in sexual pleasure for fun. Porcupines masturbate with sticks. Bonobo females exchange sex for food, prostitution style. Groups of male dolphins often capture a concubine female and continuously rape her up without allowing her to escape. They also capture and rape baby seals sometimes, just for giggles.

All throughout the animal kingdom there are other animals that do most everything that humans do. In most cases, they do it better. The mantis shrimp has eyes that completely put human eyes to shame by a huge huge margin. Most underwater species have better vision that humans. Human strength is nothing compared to other similar sized species. We're slower than most other species.

Every animal is uniquely special in some way. Humans simply have a deeper intellect than others. And if we look back at our evolutionary history, we can even pinpoint the time in the past where we reached that intellect. We can see when we figured out how to use fire, how to use tools, how to hunt using teamwork, etc. The interesting thing is that we can see other species in their own stages of learning these things. We can see other birds and mammals using tools, using teamwork. We can see the process in action.

Humans certainly have a special quality. Just like all the other animals.

Tombstone RJ 03-19-2014 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish (Post 10501617)
Sex for pleasure isn't unique to humans by any means. If you include masturbation, there are many many species that participate in sexual pleasure for fun. Porcupines masturbate with sticks. Bonobo females exchange sex for food, prostitution style. Groups of male dolphins often capture a concubine female and continuously rape her up without allowing her to escape. They also capture and rape baby seals sometimes, just for giggles.

All throughout the animal kingdom there are other animals that do most everything that humans do. In most cases, they do it better. The mantis shrimp has eyes that completely put human eyes to shame by a huge huge margin. Most underwater species have better vision that humans. Human strength is nothing compared to other similar sized species. We're slower than most other species.

Every animal is uniquely special in some way. Humans simply have a deeper intellect than others. And if we look back at our evolutionary history, we can even pinpoint the time in the past where we reached that intellect. We can see when we figured out how to use fire, how to use tools, how to hunt using teamwork, etc. The interesting thing is that we can see other species in their own stages of learning these things. We can see other birds and mammals using tools, using teamwork. We can see the process in action.

Humans certainly have a special quality. Just like all the other animals.

Humans can ask questions and have a much, much, much more profound way of communicating. This thread is a perfect example, your post is a perfect example. Humans can talk about things like facts and fiction, reality and magic and ask questions like "where do I come from, how does the universe work?"

Fish 03-19-2014 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10501593)
This is where Krauss likes to talk about magic, that is, the creation of something (or everything) from nothing. Of couse, this breaks every single scientific law and is complete speculation based more on faith than on facts, hard science and provable theories, it's a discussion on magic. You won't call it that but people like me who have common sense see it for what it is, a discussion on magic.

There was a time, just a few hundred years ago, when people didn't understand what made humans sick. They blamed it on silly things like punishment from God, witchcraft, contact with dead animals, bad air, etc. Then someone came along and proposed that there were tiny microscopic creatures too small to see, that were invading the human body and causing sickness. This was overwhelmingly met with the same denial you're showing here. People refused to believe it could be possible. There was no proof. It was a discussion on magic.

Yesterday's magic often becomes tomorrow's science.

Messier 03-19-2014 08:22 AM

Humans accumulate knowledge over generations. Learning, not just from own own past, but that of our ancestors is a special thing.

Messier 03-19-2014 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish (Post 10501639)
There was a time, just a few hundred years ago, when people didn't understand what made humans sick. They blamed it on silly things like punishment from God, witchcraft, contact with dead animals, bad air, etc. Then someone came along and proposed that there were tiny microscopic creatures too small to see, that were invading the human body and causing sickness. This was overwhelmingly met with the same denial you're showing here. People refused to believe it could be possible. There was no proof. It was a discussion on magic.

Yesterday's magic often becomes tomorrow's science.

You're talking about god of the gaps.

Fish 03-19-2014 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ (Post 10501628)
Humans can ask questions and have a much, much, much more profound way of communicating. This thread is a perfect example, your post is a perfect example. Humans can talk about things like facts and fiction, reality and magic and ask questions like "where do I come from, how does the universe work?"

Other species also communicate directly. Dolphins have names for each other. Elephants have a specific call to warn each other of humans. And surprisingly a specific call to warn of bees. Elephants hate bees. Ants communicate through the use of chemical pheromones, and they display complex colonies where everyone has a specific job function, and they can communicate things like where food is, where danger is, and many more things even we can't understand. You could argue that ants have a more efficient communication method than humans do.

Strongside 03-19-2014 08:29 AM

Boy, this thread went from "Wow, cool...science!" to DC in no time.


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