They shouldn't have to persuade you that he didn't do it. With the presumption of innocence, did they do enough to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?

At least in Paradise Lost there was evidence to point to other suspects.

In MAM there was nothing really looked at besides him so no evidence is out there to point to anyone else. On top of that you're talking about a cold case of however many years as well...

I don't believe the evidence against Terry Hobbs came out until many years later when they did additional dna testing on everything. The original case had very little physical evidence and what physical evidence there was was misconstrued or twisted by the prosecution. For example, the prosecutor alleged that one or more of the boys had their genital cut off in a satanic ritual when it was clear to forensic scientists that animals chewed them off after they were dead.

The Avery case is fairly similar in the lack of evidence. You have some bones and some blood in the car, but none of that makes any sense in the prosecution's story. The main part that I don't get is that a burn pit would clearly not create enough heat to burn a body down to bone fragments so why the hell would Avery burn her elsewhere and then just dump the bones basically in the open 20 feet from his house. The guy is basically a reerun but if he is smart enough to clean every millimeter of the garage, it doesn't follow that he would be that stupid with her remains.

Makes you wonder how many more are out there with a similar experience that were just brushed aside by Manitowoc Co.

What was the substance? tl;dw

Basically they saw him around the time of the murders at a gas station...or at least that's what they hinted.

On screen at 1:29, screen says they don't remember the time, just that it was after dark. The appointment at Avery's home was at like 2 p.m., seen around 3 p.m. Leaves a lot of time for him to kill her, then go get gas. Don't think them seeing him after dark proves anything at all.

If it's true, it does create some interesting additions to the timeline. We already know that he was in his house at around 5 pm and around 9 pm to receive the jail calls from Jodie. Going to the gas station creates another break in the action between 5 and 9. So if he did it, he took three separate breaks from his Dexter-like crime concealment escapade to go talk on the phone and get gas. Doesn't prove anything on its own but definitely introduces yet more doubt.

Completely agree but we didn't see all of the evidence either and jury that convicted him did.

Burning the body but keeping the car makes zero sense. Also, using a burn pit but not the incinerator on the property.

Well, at least you're consistent in the thoughtlessness of your opinions.

Hey now, it's not his fault he's mentally challenged. His mom sipped on anti-freeze throughout the entire pregnancy, so it's not his fault he was born that way.

Some funny memes, sorry if Q:


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I don't know if anyone mentioned it but the reason there looks like a small needle went into the cap of the tube of blood is because when you draw blood a small needle is on the end of the tubing for the needle that goes into the tube. Also I have seen a few time when quite a bit of blood gets pooled on the outside of the cap. Maybe they used that blood to plant the evidence and if the did there wouldn't be any EDTA in the swabs.

If he did do it, he deserves to be locked up for stupidity.

I'm almost certain the EDTA test was more FBI junk science.

People were paid off at a very high level. The amount of cover up and potential damages to A LOT of political and powerful figures were at stake.

and I'm sure they didn't even have to come close to the 36 million they were going to have to pay Avery.

I don't understand what you are saying. EDTA is an anticoagulant. The minute it hits the test tube, the sample becomes homogenous. So why wouldn't there be any EDTA on the swabs?

And for that purple cap (EDTA) to have a hole through the top is very indicative of a draw down, unless of course they have a chain of custody to prove there was a lab draw down.

The needle hole is not suspicious in my mind, the fact the evidence tape had been opened is to me though.

In the documentary it said that the lab did not stick needles through the cap. I would assume they just remove the cap then for draws. Coupled with the clearly broken evidence tape, there's some 'splainin' to do.

The broken evidence tape is huge. It is common for labs to not open the cap and instead draw out of the tube. In fact many laboratory instruments do this. But again there would be lab chain of custody, why they drew out of said test tube, and testing parameters to back this.

I believe all they had was Lenk signing the log to access the evidence. Nothing about anything else. That's very damning.

When you draw blood there is a needle that goes inside the cap and that is the reason it looks like a needle had been put in that tube. Sometime when you pull the tube off of that small needle that goes in the cap of the tube it will leave blood on the outside of the the tube and kind of pool on the top of the cap.

Central Park Five is also on Netflix. It is a good documentary as well.

The girls brother was such a douche. Crazy he works for the Packers.

The EDTA test is so inconclusive the FBI doesn't even use it. They were persuaded to test for it in this case. While it should show up the typical amount of sample blood taken from the tube would actually read so low on the scale of existence that it shows up as none.
It's like .001 of a milliliter. The relative values of it even in blood that it is KNOWN to be in comes back undetected because of how little is used.

According to Jessica McBride at OnMilwaukee, a nurse “who originally drew Steven Avery’s blood and put it into the vial” was originally scheduled to appear at the Avery trial to testify that she had put the hole in the rubber stopper when she originally put the blood in the vial. In fact, it was very common for these vials to have needle holes because that’s how the blood was added into the vials.
Furthermore, two national experts - including the chair of the committee that writes the industry standards on drawing blood samples - told OnMilwaukee that such blood vials are supposed to have holes pierced in their rubber stoppers. According to the experts, that’s how the blood gets into the vial.
Not only is it not uncommon, but it’s the way the vials - in this case, according to court records, a purple-stopped Vacutainer - are supposed to work.
Moreover, an expert “said that the only way such a blood vial would not have a hole is if the medical professional violated standards and did not properly insert the blood in the tube and instead just ‘dumped it in there.’”
The prosecution ultimately didn’t call the nurse because they felt it was unnecessary, that they had a strong enough case without her (the nurse has since passed away).
And what about the broken seal? That can be explained, too.
A review of court records in the case shows that the court was told by the defense that then Manitowoc County DA E. James Fitzgerald and members of Avery’s defense team met and opened packages of evidence in the 1985 court file with the court’s approval to determine what to send out for additional tests. On June 19, 2002 at 12:25 p.m., Fitzgerald opened the box with the blood vial in it and closed it again two minutes later. It was believed the evidence tape seal was broken at that time, the court records say.
In other words, the blood vial wasn’t as big a smoking gun as depicted in the documentary, and there’s some question about whether the blood needed to be tested for EDTA at all, if evidence that it had been tampered with could so easily be explained away.

Dassey should get a new trial. His representation appeared to be impartial at best.

Brandon reminds me of when I worked at the chiefs season ticket office.

"Do you like swing passes?"
"Yeah"
"What about Game managers"
"yeah"
"How's about The chiefs kingdom"
"Yeah"

Please tell me someone went to: http://coldcasecameron.com/

Tell me that Edwards Edwards living an hour away from the Avery place when this happened is coincidence....

They have a pic that is pretty close looking to him at the courthouse behind the prosecutor in the hall.

He was spotted at several other places in murders he committed or allegedly committed

LMAO

That's what I was trying to say

I have had my blood drawn many times due to being a Type II diabetic. The needle they use is very thin and leaves an incredibly small hole that is almost invisible to the naked eye. Not the huge hole shown in the documentary. Also, a sticker is usually put over the top of the vial indicating date of draw and who it was drawn from. Usually with a barcode.

Very compelling evidence but if it was that much of a slam dunk then why the hell were the cops planting evidence? Which I think we all can agree they did.

Sorry.. Not buying it.. The guy was setup.. It's pretty obvious.. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out...

I've worked as a lab tech the last 6 years and have done over 1000 draws. I always put my sticker on the side of the tube. Sometimes you are able to see the hole from where the needle went into the rubber stopper and sometimes blood pools on the rubber stopper.

I get mine drawn 1-2 times per month, and the sticker always goes on the side. Haven't looked for s hole, but I will next time.

His lawyer should be disbarred.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nIkGph9UCDU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Me too. I think it's possible they were at the site where the RAV4 was prior to discovery. Hence why he brother was "grieving" before the body was found. He was also very specific in his coaching to the stalker ex during the presser.

Netflix: Making a Murderer
 

Brendan Dassey released

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I wonder if he'll rat on his brother and uncle.

Netflix: Making a Murderer
 

Not released...conviction overturned.

More than likely he'll be released, you perfectionist.

In 90 days. That's like me creating the official game thread for the Chiefs week 7 game right now and expecting people to not criticize it.

Just Seau yourself

Belcher yourself.

Would have been funnier if Buck said it. You just ****ed it up. Congrats.

3rd party arbitrator here and upon my investigation i find that Pest saying it is in fact, equally as funny.

Meh, it would have been a good comeback for Buck. Now it's ruined.

The state can still choose to retrial dassy he might not be getting out in 90 days.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Justice for Brendan as another LE fabricated confession bites the dust. Convicting the innocent foiled by unbiased court.<a href="https://twitter.com/MakingAMurderer">@MakingAMurderer</a></p>&mdash; Kathleen Zellner (@ZellnerLaw) <a href="https://twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/status/764210752068653057">August 12, 2016</a></blockquote>
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She is so gonna use this with Steven at his trial.

Given the case was so shady and weak with its keystone being a false coerced confession, I highly doubt they bring charges again. Hopefully someone close to Brendan is auditioning some good lawyers because he could own the county after he is done suing.

two wrongful convictions, one family. (part of me says steven avery is guilty the second time around)

He may have killed her, but I still say they framed him (to try to make sure her got convicted), and I think guilty or innocent, he is going to get out again and have that law suit he lost out on before.

He didn't lose out on it, pretty sure he took the offer and paid his lawyers.

Rumor is his new lawyer has the smoking gun of evidence to get Avery's overturned as well. Hearing rumors of cell phone towers being pinged in a different location during a key point in the murder.

Actually, if the police did in fact plant evidence. He can open up the lawsuit again as he was forced to settle under duress.

Really? I had no idea.

It would take a judge deciding the extent of the duress.

Uh-oh, a Serial type twist.

I feel really sorry for Steven Avery. I mean he will basically have spent most of his life behind bars for crimes (rape for goodness sake) that he didn't commit and here I am bitching about my job today... Lol.

He was set to get in the neighborhood of $36 million, but after he was arrested for the murder he took a settlement of like $400k because he was desperate to get money for decent lawyers. So yes, he did miss out on a huge payday.

There are reports that there were tower pings from miles away from the Avery compound well after the prosecution's timeline of the murder taking place, which would show that she did in fact leave after taking pictures of the van. However, those tower pings are not 100% reliable but it's certainly an interesting route to pursue. It's amazing that Avery's original lawyers didn't pursue it (or they did and it was bogus).

Were they incoming? or outgoing?

neither.... when you are moving from place to place, your phone stays in communication with the network through a series of towers. when you leave the range of one you are picked up by another in what is called a hand off so that the network always knows what tower to direct an incoming call/text to.

Nancy grace and ken kratz super pissed off

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/maki...ey-confession/

That he agreed to.

His lawyer should have been smarter too. Defend him on credit for five million and get paid on the settlement. It may take years but it's a gamble worth taking imo

So anyone could have had the phone...

correct... it only gives a general indication of the location of the device

Pretty sure that was talked about before. It's pretty meaningless imo. If you don't have a picture of her with the phone at that time you cant prove anything.

Which they should have probably gotten the times, on the pings and tried to find any security cameras, traffic cameras, etc and seen if it was her driving...

So after this news broke I have to admit I was completely floored....don't think anyone saw this coming.

I had 4 days off from work last week and this news sparked me to get back into it and I consumed a lot of media concerning the case, read a bunch of stuff, etc. and I have to be honest a lot of my thoughts have been changed.

I was 110% convinced after MaM that Avery and Brendan were innocent and this was an injustice and everything else.......now I'm not so sure. After seeing just how one sided MaM was and seeing what was left out, it's kind of startling and crazy....goes to show how you shouldn't buy into something without knowing the complete truth.

I think there's still murkiness as to what happened and it's a cluster**** but I feel a lot less certain of Avery's innocence (and Brendan's for that matter) than before....as with OJ, I'm coming around to the idea that Manitowoc framed a guilty man.

Nancy Grace is an un****able monster that has yet to see an innocent defendant in her life. It's incredible that she still has airtime to spout her nonsense.

And Kratz should have been disbarred immediately after that press conference stunt that happened right after Brendan's "confession".

Just started watching this. On episode 7 now.

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that's bullshit, he should be released unconditionally until (and if) he's found guilty in a retrial

when asked if he would like to be released, Brendan Dassey replied with a low, drawn out muffled "Yeea-ahhhh".