Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 14040184)

Allow me to propose a criticism that is about something other than 'too PC.'

While you might applaud the particular aims of these suggested responses [stopping kids from roughhousing, restraining an ogler or a groper] they are STILL patriarchal.

It's not progress to simply replace one set of stereotypes with another.
The 'old' mindset is supposedly that the only people who are harmed by horseplay or ogling are wimps or bitches who don't matter anyway. But this 'new' mindset assumes that people can never derive enjoyment or growth through any of this 'unwelcomed' activity.

But the horseplay and bullying and the ogling and the groping and the remarks, and all that, . . . are still between two individuals who ARE NOT YOU. You are by definition stereotyping and exercising privilege when you step into a situation between two individuals and state 'hey, I'm bigger and stronger than all of you, and I think that your interpersonal reactions should be like xxx'

You have no way of knowing what the inner monologues of the actual participants in the event are, but Gillette call upon you to be a referee anyway. Those who propose this cannot envision anyone in a physical scrap as anything but an aggressor and a terrified recipient, and cannot envision anyone involved in flirting as anything other than a predator and a terrified prey.

Clearly there comes a point where additional evidence accumulates, where a kid is clearly being bested and hurt, or where a woman is clearly receiving emotional damage without the interpersonal skills to handle the moment on her own. And at that point, your tactful intervention might be called for.

But this campaign isn't about being tactful and situationally aware, it's a backlash to underutilized patriarchy demanding that instead that same patriarchy be abused in 'good ways,' in ways that make the critics more comfortable.

Originally Posted by SuperChief (Post 14040531)

I don't know what's "PC" about the message, "Hey, don't be a dick. Be better than that." I know, I know - back in my day, we used to pound those nerds into oblivion and now they're CEOs, so it must have worked right?

Literally NO ONE is saying masculinity is bad; the reference is toward toxic masculinity, and I'm sure it's something we've all taken apart of at some point in our lives here. Bullying, demeaning, undermining, mansplaining, etc.

Why wouldn't you want to grow and be the best version of you you can be? That's the message here. Christ.

Originally Posted by SuperChief (Post 14040531)

I don't know what's "PC" about the message, "Hey, don't be a dick. Be better than that." I know, I know - back in my day, we used to pound those nerds into oblivion and now they're CEOs, so it must have worked right?

Literally NO ONE is saying masculinity is bad; the reference is toward toxic masculinity, and I'm sure it's something we've all taken apart of at some point in our lives here. Bullying, demeaning, undermining, mansplaining, etc.

Why wouldn't you want to grow and be the best version of you you can be? That's the message here. Christ.

Originally Posted by SuperChief (Post 14040517)

You're turning obvious cultural black and whites into grey areas - for what purpose? Why conflate the issue at hand - reinforcing positive cultural norms? Why play devil's advocate on THAT? smh

Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 14040606)

Because the 'grey areas' exist regardless of whether they are beneficial to your black and white solution or not.

Originally Posted by SuperChief (Post 14040531)

I don't know what's "PC" about the message, "Hey, don't be a dick. Be better than that." I know, I know - back in my day, we used to pound those nerds into oblivion and now they're CEOs, so it must have worked right?

Literally NO ONE is saying masculinity is bad; the reference is toward toxic masculinity, and I'm sure it's something we've all taken apart of at some point in our lives here. Bullying, demeaning, undermining, mansplaining, etc.

Why wouldn't you want to grow and be the best version of you you can be? That's the message here. Christ.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14040312)

I'm not sure if they still do, but Dollar Shave Club used to get their blades from Dorco. You can buy directly from them for about 1/2 what even DSC costs if you buy them in bulk. You can do it for less if you find a coupon or ad special.

I use a Pace 6 from them and it's a great blade; easily as good as my Schick's used to be and the back of the blades are open for easier cleaning and reduced corrosion.

As for this ad - I'm just so tired of the projecting. Jesus Christ, who actually sits there and watches kids beat the shit out of each other? Or ignores bullies? Men take an absurd amount of pride in being fathers, though you'd never know it from television. I tend to treat raising the boy as an immense responsibility and the girls as something of a sacred trust. And I'm hardly special in this regard - this is common; it's decidedly average. For Gillette to throw this ad out there and not expect a resounding "**** you!" from the masses tells me a lot about who comprised that ad-team. I'm betting there wasn't a significant number of fathers putting that one together. If there were, someone would've sat back and said "hey now, maybe we shouldn't be hand-waiving the millions of responsible fathers in this country that are gonna see this and tell us to fist ourselves..."

So this ad is one of 2 things - 1) just a bunch of out of touch coastal ad men who think the world is full of guys who will sit there letting the burgers burn while kids beat the piss out of each other (pft - like any of us would let the burgers burn...) and see daughters as needless appendages or 2) a pack of cynical asswipes who know better but have found there is profit to be made in appealing to the mass media markets (NY, LA and Chicago) that lap this shit up.

Both possibilities deserve plenty of scorn. I also find more and more that the people who look down on flyover country as being full of backwards rubes sure seem to have a lot more stories of men being mouth-breathing shitheels than us midwesterners do.

Yeah, Gillette is welcomed to get bent with this one. Try taking the worst stereotypes of women, flipping them and then making a tampon commercial or something. Some ad with women either as hormonal temptresses constantly in fear of their biological clock poking holes in condoms or lying about their birth control. Or just straight up savage misandry blamed on having their periods. Hey, how 'bout we focus on those women that lean on their husbands as simple sources of finances and leave them, take their children and route them out of their lives - we can sell shampoo.

Seriously - flip this commercial on its head and tell me that "well hey, maybe the message was a little too on the nose, but the sentiment is sound..." would be a viable takeaway from using a gender's worst examples as representative of the whole. Tell me could ever make a commercial as self-serious as that piece of shit that frames the female sex as little more than the embodiment of their worst representatives and moments and that it would be defended.

It's just a ridiculous commercial as is Tiny Evil's defense of it. You wanna know why this commercial got made? Because the west coast advertising guy on this very board showed up and said "hey, I don't know what the big deal is...."

You have it straight from the source and yes, it's exactly that asinine.

Originally Posted by SuperChief (Post 14040531)

I don't know what's "PC" about the message, "Hey, don't be a dick. Be better than that." I know, I know - back in my day, we used to pound those nerds into oblivion and now they're CEOs, so it must have worked right?

Literally NO ONE is saying masculinity is bad; the reference is toward toxic masculinity, and I'm sure it's something we've all taken apart of at some point in our lives here. Bullying, demeaning, undermining, mansplaining, etc.

Why wouldn't you want to grow and be the best version of you you can be? That's the message here. Christ.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 14040794)

Because companies have been using that message to great effect for years and it doesn't come across as preachy bullshit.

Seriously - how often does "Hey, it's okay to be an asshole" sell a power drill? Of course it doesn't, but those ads can be made focusing on the pride of being a good person rather than that kind of virtue signaling horseshit.

Does the fact that this particular ad has inspired such a visceral reaction not speak directly to its problem? I mean contrast that with something as simple as those hokey "close shave America, close shave Barbesol" ads that demonstrate men working hard and then going home and being caring husbands and fathers - it's the same friggen message just not delivered in a bullshit condescending fashion.

Men don't need to be preached at not to be mouth-breathing neanderthals any more than women need to be scolded not to be judgmental screeching harpies. Again, if you flip this ad the other way, the vitriolic backlash would be deafening.

Then again, you used 'mansplaining' in a non-ironic manner so I'm guessing your definition of "the best version of you that you can be" is not going to align with anyone who didn't watch this ad and immediately damn their genitalia. I'll decide what the best version of me is, thank you.