I can't even imagine how bad the Patriot and Packer defenses would be if Brady and Rodgerfs hadn't raised the level of their play.

And that Pack O-Line...Ooooh crap.

Guys...I'm not trolling...if you only knew. QB drafts like last year only come along every 10-15 years...I expect the Chiefs to select the #1 overall athlete/player. I don't care who it is...but from all the reports I've seen and read it's NOT Geno Smith...you can say he's the best QB of this years draft but I don't think he's the best football player. History has shown you can find a great QB in the later rounds i.e. Tom Brady/Aaron Rogers...it's matter of coaching and I think we have one of the best in the business now...

I don't know why you're asking me this question.

Rogers was a first round pick.

And name me one college football player in this draft that had as good a season or career as Geno Smith has had as three years as a starter. At any position.

The only guy who is close is Jarvis Jones, and he's not close.

Jake Long was so much greater at his position than Matt Ryan was at his.

So, at the end of the day, you only want draft a QB if he's a sure thing.

The true fan mantra applied to the draft.

Play not to lose.

Smith was picked ahead of Rogers...Jarvis Jones is a linebacker...your point is???

No...I didn't say that..

And for the number one pick...YES!! He should be a sure thing..

You're more likely to find a great QB in the first round than all other rounds combined. History has shown that great late round QBs like Brady are the clear exceptions.
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You said the Chiefs would take the best player in the draft. I said that Geno Smith is that player based on college production and upside/ceiling at the next level. I said that no one else in this draft is close to Smith in terms of college production or upside, especially when you factor in the importance of the position he plays.

I said that the only guy in this draft that has produced as much as Smith, regardless of what position they play, is Jarvis Jones. And comparably, he doesn't come close to what Smith gave you for the 2012 or his career.

And I'd like your opinion on Geno's win loss record. He never had a losing season in three years as a starter. 29-13 career. Is that acceptable? You made a point of it earlier.

Do you remember the reason Smith was chosen over Rodgers by th 9ers?

No player is.

Ever.

That is exactly what you're saying.

And to your next post, there is no such thing as a sure thing, not even Luck.

There are only levels of risk.

John Elway was a sure thing. Peyton Manning was a sure thing. Ernie Accorsi felt that Eli Manning was a sure thing. Andrew Luck was a sure thing.

Jim Plunket was a sure thing.

Well, he did win two Super Bowls.

:p

The Patriots back then were awful. It's crazy that they pushed out Plunkett for Grogan, and I liked Grogan.

Half the league was divided on Manning versus Leaf. That's not a sure thing.

LMAO

Who cares if half the league over-thinks players? There was absolutely no chance that Peyton Manning would bust.

Leaf had scary psych evaluations that Beathard ignored because his ass was on the line.

Reid might believe Smith/Barkley is a sure thing.

You yearn for guys like Tebow and Klein don't you? Let the True Fan out munkey.

Just because a guy doesn't play QB and Kiper has him at 1, doesn't make him a sure thing.

Geno IS the BPA IMO, so **** off True fans

eviceration.

THERE
IS
NO
SUCH
THING
AS
A
SURE
THING
IN
THE
NFL
DRAFT
YOU
DAFT
MONKEY
DIPSHIT

errrr, wrong.

elway I can't attest to--I was less than four months old.

manning was such a sure-thing that OVER HALF OF THE NFL GMS WOULD HAVE PICKED RYAN LEAF OVER HIM

eli and andrew luck were both GOOD coming out, but certainly not 'sure things.' as close as you can get, but NOT sure things.

sure there was a possibility he'd bust.

look, dane, I love you like the grandson I never had... but you're applying HINDSIGHT to your views on these QBs. WITHOUT THE AIDE OF HINDSIGHT, we could NEVER know that peyton manning wouldn't be going to a spot where his coach is a psycho and ****s his development up. shit could have happened. he could've fallen and bumped his head. he could've gotten multiple concussions. hell, he could've gotten AIDS from all the ****ing around he apparently does.

THERE IS NEVER ANYTHING THAT IS 100% UNTIL AFTER THE FACT.

hell, while we're on the topic... ignoring hindsight... was jamarcus russell a 'sure-thing?'

I mean... go look up what mel kiper and ALL OF THE REST OF THE PUNDITS were saying about him. HE WAS THE NEXT JOHN ELWAY.

if that's not a sure thing, I really don't know what is. if you're going to use hindsight, use it evenly-- jamarcus russell was as well-thought of as ANY QB coming out not named luck or manning. where is he right now? good question--he's trying to lose weight so some team won't try him at ****ing left tackle

Whomever Todd McShay says we will get, we will get. He is the one that knows what he is talking about. I think he has us penned for Jarvis Jones.

I agree with everything except Russell. Your premise in general I agree with, just maybe not the example. I never thought Russel would pan out and a decent amount of others felt the same. Then again I was hoping for it since he was going to OAK.

Elway was drafted by the Yankees and the Colts. The guy was a stud. There was no way he going to fail.


And everyone one of those GM's would have been fired, just like Beathard was for reaching on Leaf.

The stupidity of GM's doesn't negate the fact that there was absolutely NO WAY Peyton Manning was going to bust.

Puh-leeese. Who in their right mind felt that Andrew Luck was anything other than the best QB available in the draft since Peyton Manning?

NO chance that Luck was a bust. None, zero, zilch.

Draft Geno to play both ways, as a left tackle and a hybrid DE/LB pass rush specialist. If that doesn't work out in the first 48 hours or so, shift him to quarterback and see if that position suits him better. Everybody's happy.

you're ignoring the real issue here--you're applying all of your analysis through the lens of HINDSIGHT, man. since none of us has a time machine, OF COURSE THERE WAS NO CHANCE THEY'D BUST

yeah--there was 99% of a chance they weren't going to bust... but in NO world is that EVER 100%. shit happens, man. do we consider percy snow a bust? he was a HELL of a linebacker in college... but, never reached his potential (due to a freak injury, but... SHIT HAPPENS).

hindsight is a bitch, and you remove all doubt when you look at this through that lens. however, DURING AND BEFORE THE DRAFT, hindsight is NOT available.

how does this apply to geno smith? WE CAN'T LOOK BACK IN HINDSIGHT BECAUSE WE AREN'T IN THE ****ING FUTURE.

take-home message? feel free to say that those guys were CAN'T MISS until you're blue in the face. I'll just sit back here and giggle at the fact that you don't realize the logical fallacy you're falling victim to.

That's really not true. I'm not using hindsight.

I was a teenager in 1983, had been to countless Chiefs games and hell, even watched the USFL! There was no one like John Elway before or pretty much since.

Note I didn't mention Steve Young, even though he signed a $42 million dollar contract with the Los Angeles Express. He was definitely a work in progress unlike Elway, who willed his team to three Super Bowls and won his final two.

Anyone that doubted Manning was an idiot. Anyone that followed him closely knew of and likely watched his father, an amazing QB that played in an era before free agency. Same with Luck. His father was an NFL QB, successful businessman and groomed his son to be an NFL QB, who played like an NFL QB at Stanford.

Sometimes, guys ARE sure things.

Percy Snow started kicking ass in the 11th game of his rookie season. That defense would have been even better had he not injured himself in a dopey moped accident in the following training camp.

But that said, he didn't fail because of ability, he failed due to a freak injury, so it doesn't really count in this discussion. Furthermore, he wasn't the #1 overall choice.

Again, I'm not using hindsight.


:facepalm:

Who said anything about Eugene Smith?

Seriously, I think many people here are so infatuated with him, that they ****ing wet dream at night.

Agree to disagree.

It's not a fallacy, it's a fact. Now, maybe not everyone in the NFL or who watches the NFL felt that Elway, Manning and Luck were "Can't Miss" or "Sure Thing" players, but there was certainly a consensus about each of those guys that they WERE can't miss players.

Anyone who thought otherwise was ****ing stupid.

The way he's talked about on this forum, I'm surprised that the other 52 guys are even necessary

Jagwads GM wants to build around Blaine Gabbert.

Good luck with that.

Because your attempt to turn back the dial on the Geno/QB excitement to a reasonable level to your liking is dumb and stupid.

I know you're on the same page as us when it comes to a QB, but in your attempt to talk football, you're inadvertently giving credence to the fallacious "BPA in a vacuum" theory. That's a bad argument is all I'm trying to say. It seems like some skepticism should be taken when analyzing the Chiefs picking Geno, but there really is none to be applied.

He is THE ONLY pick that makes sense. I'm sorry you can't see that.

let's look at other can't miss guys that come to mind:

reggie bush
tony mandarich
robert gallery
charles rodgers
heath shuler
rick mirer
tim couch
bruce pickens
rich campbell (green bay packers)
david carr
hell... you can throw aundray bruce on that list

ALL OF THOSE GUYS were considered can't miss at the time they were drafted. ALL.OF.THEM.

can't miss guys miss ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME

Remember when we drafted Glenn Dorsey? Everybody said he was a sure thing.

Robert Gallery was also a sure thing.

Tony Mandarich

Keyshawn Johnson

Non-QBs who are considered "sure things" at the very top of the draft bust out ALL THE GODDAMN TIME.

Why is Luke Joeckel any different? He shouldn't be treated any differently. He's NOT a sure thing.

So how about we just take the QB?

You fiend.

Riiiight

comment in derision all you want. doesn't make it any less true.

But, but, but he's a safe pick that helps maximize value or some other mumbo jumbo bullshit excuse to not take a QB.

Hey guys remember when we took Tyson Jackson at #3 overall because the media claimed Pioli wanted the "safe" pick over the "risky" QB Mark Sanchez?

How well did that "safe" pick work out for us?

OMGZ BUT SANCHEZ SUX SO WE MADE RIGHT DECISOIN HAHAHAHAHA

48th ranked 3-4 end out of 50 ROFL Imagine if we had taken a "risk" on another guy.

Bullshit.

We just took a safe route 4 years ago that resulted in a "QB with sum xperience" and a low floor guy being two of the worst players at their respected positions and people STILL can't fathom spending a 1st on a QB. Wow...just wow.

Who, outside of Scott Pioli, wanted Tyson Jackson at #3 overall?

I said it the day he was drafted and it's still true: Tyson Jackson was the WORST draft selection in franchise history and set this team back by five years.

No hindsight needed.

And to me, a pick of a LT at #1 overall when we're on the eve of re-signing our pretty good one would be just as much of a failure. Same goes for the fat defensive linemen who "collapses the pocket" in the modern NFL, when QBs get rid of the ball so fast the linemen don't have time to collapse the pocket.

Why do Piolis and Casserlys and all those dumbasses advise that teams make those kinds of picks? Because they're ****ing pussies, that's why.

Playing scared in the draft will get you beat. Each and every time.

BY DEFINITION, you can't be considered a BUST (all of the guys on my list? COLOSSAL BUSTS) unless it wasn't OBVIOUS TO A LOT OF PEOPLE that you were going to be PRETTY DAMNED GOOD.

vis-a-vis... not bullshit in the least. can't miss. did miss. suck it, trebek. :)

Sanchez is garbage and Jackson can at least play his position at this level. there were other guys, yes, but not Sanchez. He is crap.

LMAO

And both are unemployed.

:D

(And Jeff Ireland should have joined them this off-season).

Dane, your discussion of Manning and how he was viewed is not how it was.

There were a number of questions, most notably, whether he had the requsite arm strength to make all the throwzs because he had a tendency to float the deep outs at Tennesee, and whether he had potential to grow or had he reached his ceiling?.

Bill Polian has talked about he and his scouts struggled with those questins, and the fact that Leaf had superior physical skills and measureables made the decision a last minute one when the draft rolled around.

Plunket and Elway were as close to sure things at QB that have been drafted in the last 40 years prior to Luck.

One was a disappointment.

Mark Sanchez is another example of these "sure things" at QB

You're full of shit.

Was he?

Steele Jantz to play safety.

I'm pretty sure it was Rustshack that said we needed to take him in the third. That was, of course, when he thought he was playing QB.

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1bfbf75e.jpg

THIS IS NOT A GENO SMITH THREAD. THERE IS A HUNDRED OF THEM IN THIS FORUM. GO TO THEM FOR THIS SHIT!

THIS IS ABOUT THE OTHER NAMES MOST OFTEN MENTIONED AND A SCENARIO NONE OF US HAVE A SAY IN. GROW UP!!!! ALL I WANT IS TO GET AN IDEA FOR WHO THE MAJORITY OF YOU MIGHT PREFER IF THE CHIEFS (GOD FORBID) DO NOT PICK GENO SMITH AT THE TOP OF THE DRAFT AND IF SOME OF YOU SURVIVE THE CORONARY IF THEY DON'T!

I REPEAT: THIS IS NOT A GENO SMITH THREAD. JUST VOTE IN THE POLL OR SHUT THE **** UP ALREADY!

holy mother****ing shit, is there really any wonder you don't get around very well around here? yeah... this will not end well at ALL. have fun, man. have fun.

hell, this reminds me a LOT of beyonce's publicist coming out and telling the internet to leave her picture alone. kinda sad, but it's not outside of the realm.

it really takes a LOT to make me use this word these days...but after reading several pages of your high quality herp-derpery...i have no choice: Goddamnit man; are you REALLY this ****ing reeruned?
Posted via Mobile Device

Aaaand there was my answer.....wow.
Posted via Mobile Device

The Elway comparison is apt and i am NOT ****ing kidding. Just you wait and see...
Posted via Mobile Device

dude... I love you like the step-niece that I never had... but that's... ****ing crazy.

ROFLROFL

This thread has exploded in midair.

There is no QB who really stands out in this class. Even some of the 2nd round guys have important characteristics that Geno doesn't.

Okay dipshit...

List them.

Oh, and while we are talking about your stupidity, your signature is a lie. I never said either of those two things. And I think Geno is a better passer than Griffin, not as good - better.

Look...i was asked to provide a comparison for Smith to a well known QB and after YEARS of watching that shit stick pull chicken salad rabbits out of his chickenshit ass...I knew EXACTLY what I was seeing watching Smith play. The OU game only solidified it. Its real...its there...and God willing its on its way here.
Posted via Mobile Device

Rep.

Nassib for starters.

And I would like to see who you'd take Geno over since you said he's one of the best prospects in the last 10 years.

Nassib?!

Jesus Christ...

Okay, what qualities does Nassib have that puts him over the top of Geno?

DON'T PISS FRANKIE OFF! KEEP THIS GENO SMITH SHIT OUT OF HERE BECAUSE HE SAID SO!!!!!!!




















PS, Frankie's mom is a whore

You watch entirely too much of Kiper and McShay on ESPN.

Frankie, your thread went 200+ posts before it turned into a Geno thread. What more do you really want?

There's only so much we can talk about in DIRECT REFERENCE to not drafting a QB before we start talking about drafting a QB.

Go gently, man. It's not a big deal.

Makes multiple reads almost every play, pro style experience with a fantastic coach who has developed him very well, makes the best decisions of any QB in this class, is very accurate in the short passes and he has the best deep ball of any QB in this class.

Edit: He also has a very good play fake and does the 3,5,7 step drop really well. Also has very good learning ability and a very good football IQ

No I just don't think Geno is the greatest QB prospect ever.

I'd take Geno over anyone whose come out in this century with the notable exception of Andrew Luck.

I think he's that good with that much of a ceiling. His ability to hit guys in stride deep while being covered is insane. I've never seen a guy do it with the regularity that Geno has done in his college career. As well, he's got an uncanny pocket presence and his release is damn near perfect. Add to that, he's a noted film room junkie.

Yeah, I think he's that good. I think he's got all the tools to be elite at the next level and with the hiring of Reid and having a running back like Charles and a young, talented offensive line, he's going to be put into a position to be successful sooner rather than later. It's the perfect storm so to speak and the Cheifs finally have the chance at a guy who has the ceiling and potential.

And everyone around here knows I'm a trenches type of guy. I don't get overly excited about QB's because most really aren't that good. I don't want them taking a QB just to take a QB. But Geno is different.