Lol this guy said "I'm not paying attention", then has the nerve to claim that "I want the system scrapped"? ARE YOU FRIKKING STUPID? WHY ARE YOU FAILING TO COMPREHEND THE PHRASE "TIME OF POSSESSION"? And I don't give a damn about running the ball "well", HOW ABOUT WE RUN THE BALL "GREAT" with an ability to take time off the clock? Am I not allowed to hope for that because you folks insist Williams is the next "Barry Sanders" and "we're a pass first team so we're not allowed to even THINK about time of possesion"? Get real.

You said you don't want a rb, and have said it a million times already. So yes, you are indeed a one trick pony with broken record tendencies. Just my opinion.

ROFL

Yeah that's not quite what that saying means, really.

Ok, man. I'm going to explain this to you in detail, no snark, just in detail. I doubt it's going to matter at all, because you're personally invested in a specific narrative, and you strike me as someone that's not going to change their mind regardless of what anyone says.

Ok. Andy Reid's offensive system starts first and foremost with his offensive line scheme. He looks for certain attributes; namely, quickness, lateral agility, and fundamentally sound technicians. He does so often knowing he's paying a price in raw power. That's because he likes to trap, and pull, and cross block. We rarely line up, man up, and try to shove a defensive line backwards. It's why we don't do as well in short yardage and goal-line unless we do trap, pull, and cross block. Things happen faster in short yardage, so we don't do as well.

The strength of the concept is that you get a defense on their heels, unsure of where you're going and what you're doing and by the time they figure it out, you're already into the second level.

The downside is that when it comes to just plain old power football, you're often not very good at it.

The fact is that Reid ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS has RB's that put up big numbers. Going all the way back to Westbrook. A RB in Reid's scheme needs quickness; must be a good receiver, must be able to pass block, and then yes, must be able to run the ball. BUT-it's not a power running scheme. It's not built that way. It's built on misdirection. WHO the back is matters much less than WHAT is happening on the line. This is why Damien Williams can step in for Kareem Hunt and there is zero drop-off in any measurable statistic. It's also why a Laveon Bell is a terrible, terrible fit in this offense.

Reid has also said, and this is fundamental West Coast Offense going back to Bill Walsh-he considers screens and dumps to the flat as an extension of the running game. They're elongated hand-offs. They're running plays. Consider them 'toss' plays if you will. Reid literally does, and does not care if you see it that way. It's a fundamental part of what he considers 'the running game.'

Forcing the defense to cover sideline to sideline is a HUGE part of the overall offensive concept. These plays are essentially really wide 'toss-sweeps'.

So, we've looked at the reason WHY we sometimes struggle with running the ball in short yardage and goal-line situations. Summary-it's not who's carrying the rock. It's that the line is built for other skill-sets.

We've also covered that Reid considers screens and short dump-offs to be part of the running game, as 'extended hand-offs'. You can disagree, but this is literally a fundamental part of his offensive concept.

So-when people say, "You want to change the scheme", they're right.

Because you're wanting to change things tendencies that literally would require changing offensive linemen to straight ahead blocking maulers (Schwartz is really the only guy we have that would fit that)

and you're saying you want to run the ball between the tackles rather than screens and short passes to the flat (which is contrary to the entire idea of the West Coast Offense in any of it's incarnations. The main idea of which is to force a defense to cover every inch of the field at all times.)

And furthermore, you believe that the 'problem' such as it is (or is not to be statistically accurate) is that we lack a quality running back. Hopefully I've explained that Andy Reid has ALWAYS had production from the RB position and always will; it's one of his hallmarks.

And as for me, I'm not saying 'I don't want a running back' I'm saying I don't want to draft one high or sign a big name one in free agency. I say Damien Williams played very, very well in extended snaps; and Darrel Williams played well in less extended snaps. You also have Ware and West, who while they're not all-pro's, only a fool would say they're not totally excellent 3rd string running backs that already know your entire offense and can be retained cheaply if you want to.

And that's all I've got to say about that.

hmm. Okay, well, I gave it a shot.

After his last 'volley' I realized we're clearly wasting our time.

You made a game effort, but it was wasted on someone who refuses to understand it and prefers traffic in straw men.

C'est la vie - I watched Battlefield Earth once and it was both more time consuming and less productive than your post so I can't judge...

Well done for writing such a long essay :clap: . But there's some flaws in your logic/post.

1. IF the RB doesn't matter at all then why has he drafted the likes of Mccoy and Hunt In the 2nd and 3rd rounds? Why not just get undrafted guys if it's that simple?

2. No-one is saying we should change scheme, I'm saying we should get a back who can hold onto the ball when we need them to. Hunt was doing that last season towards the end of games but that has since vanished. And an example of that was the Chargers game when we couldn't keep the ball and they scored In the last minute.

3. Screens and dump offs are all good but that's why I talked about DIVERSITY. And if running the ball down the defense's throat and keeping possession is something Andy would contrive to ignore, then I guess that's why he can't win in the offseason? Because the Pats already showed us how effective that can be.

I give your effort a C though. You tried, But I just don't agree with your assessments and logic.

I'm glad you decided to wave the white flag rather than continue to put words In my mouth. Well done :clap: .

oh boy.

1.-He drafted McCoy and Hunt in the 2nd and 3rd when he had a clear need. we don't have a clear need. We're literally 4 deep right now at viable options at RB. I'm not saying they won't take one somewhere, but I'd be very suprised if it's high, as we literally have 2 CB's with any real game experience on the roster, for example. From a #31 ranked defense. While we have a #1 ranked offense that actually was MORE efficient running the ball with Williams as the primary back.

2.-there's nothing that Williams was doing wrong in any of those games to 'not hang on to the ball'. If you want to blame the playcalls, cool, that's another argument entirely. Williams ran the ball as well as anyone in the NFL the last half of the season. Look at his YPC, yards after contact, hell look at his TD's. He was highly productive. You just don't like him for some reason.

3.-I explained in detail why we sometimes have problems 'running the ball down their throat'. It has to do with the line not being built for a power running attack. If you want to fire Andy Reid over that, that's your opinion. I think that would be stupid.

I give your response a 'D-' because your reading comprehension sucks, your deductive reasoning is non-existent, and your stubborn-ness in the face of facts that disprove your theories is mind boggling.

LOL now you've gone from "any RB can do well In Reid's system" to "It was a clear need"? CONTRADICTION If I ever saw one. Secondly you've flip flopped on another issue too because you've been crying about us "not needing one" and now you're saying "not a high pick"? And one more thing, Ware and West are FREE AGENTS this summer, so your "four deep" line is a load of bs.


Most of the damage Williams done was via dump offs and screens. He barely had games like Hunt had against Denver at Mile High. And no, It's nothing to do with "not liking him", I just want someone better to partner him so we cn have a BETTER run game, it's that simple.


"Sometimes" does not mean it cannot fixed to make it happen more often, does it?


Say what you want about me, but at least I'm not a flip flopper who has contradicted myself several times in one post :) .

bye. Ignore.

Lol at clowns who I barely interract with thinking they will somehow be "missed". Don't let the door hit your ass buddy, you were a complete waste of paragraphs ROFL .

has this thread come to a consensus top 3 RBs of choice for 2019 yet?

Didn't both Williams and Hunt average 4.8 YPC on the ground last season?

I also think in terms of the TOP debate, screens and the short passing game run the clock just as much as the run game does.

The best way to improve TOP is for the defense to actually get stops, and be stouter against the run. Pat loves the big play too, I never want him to stop looking for bombs but he will probably learn to take check downs when the situation calls for it a little more as he gets more experience.

Consensus on CP? Lol.

My two cents:

You want a bellcow type with toughness/power?
Jacobs, Montgomery

Best pure “runner” in the draft?
Singletary

Change of pace, pass catching ability, speed?
Trayveon Williams, Bryce Love

Wildcard?
Rodney Anderson. Dude is the total package, but has a massive injury history. Late Rd 3 - Round 4, I’m having a serious discussion with medical staff and seeing if he is worth it. Dude is generational when healthy.

The one I'm most intrigued about is Wes Hills tbh. His size and speed would add a new dimension to this offense imo. IF he makes it as a pro he could be something similar to Melvin Gordon I think. But no doubt, Rodney Anderson will probably have to be taken with our 3rd round pick IF we really want to get him as I can see a few others snatching him In the mid rounds If we don't.

Aren't you the same guy who thought we should be the team to give Leveon Bell all that money he wants?

If we get rid of Houston, Ford and Berry then why not take a chance on him with the cap space we'd have? The guy is a quality player, fullstop.

If we got rid of Houston, Ford, and Berry, then used that cap room to sign Bell to his desired contract demands, we'd have to choose after that between extending Hill/Jones and having any kind of future flexibility in free agency. Oh, and meanwhile you just took away two good pass rushing options for the defense.

Congratulations! You've turned us into the 2011-present Green Bay Packers! Best QB in football and zero Super Bowl appearances due to shitty defensive collapses in the playoffs!

And I don't want to hear, "Who cares? That's what we are now!" The point is that we have a chance of NOT being that if we keep things smart by not wasting cash on players we don't need.

SMH getting those three off the books would create enough cap space to get Bell and some solid defensive pieces. PLUS we have the draft to add to the defense as well. IF you really think any team is gonna pay Bell exactly what he wants then you're living in a dreamworld.

Oh man. ROFL I'm glad I put that idiot on ignore. I don't know why you're still trying. that guy is the dumbest poster on CP.

I see the d/##head above is still salty after I dismissed his stupid ass yesterday? But hey, I'm "on ignore" but yet HE'S STILL TALKING ABOUT ME? just sums up how dumb he is ROFL

I REALLY like Singletary, he's my favorite based on ability/availability depending on which draftniks you listen to, he could be there with our late 3rd

Just because you could afford to pay Bell does not mean the money couldn't be spent much better elsewhere.

Elijah Holyfield is very intriguing

Holyfield reminds me of Zeke Elliot tbh. He looks like a very good prospect and very gettable for the Chiefs.

I put him on ignore months ago. People keep quoting his dumb ass though.

Jordan Scarlett popping off a 4.49; that's gonna help him.

Benny Snell's 4.7, OTOH, will not.

!@#$%ing Holyfield put up a nice time...for a fullback. 4.79.

I know he's on some of y'alls wish list but I'm not putting a 4.8 HB on this squad. He's of no use to us at all with that kind of speed.

Justice Hill w/ the 4.40 isn't surprising but that's gotta be a bit of a relief for him. He needed to show the speed on the stopwatch that he shoes on tape since that's his primary selling point.

Yeah Holyfield’s 4.79 ain’t helping

Hill in this offense would be very interesting

Looks a lot like Damien Williams with a slightly higher top gear maybe? But Williams is pretty quick in his own right.

I like Hill well enough and if he were available on the 3rd day I'd spin the wheel and see if he can supplant Damien and save us some cap in 2020. But I don't think he adds much the squad doesn't already have.

I would like to pair him with Williams

I’m kinda over the “thunder and lighting” running back atuff

Give me guys who are good

Elijah Holyfield with a 4.79 40 is a bit concerning. I mean the Chiefs weren't too concerned with Kareem Hunt's 4.62 40 time but man that is slow.

Well, Cross Holyfield off the list.

I don’t like Snell at all, either. He doesn’t have good top-end speed and he isn’t a quick accelerator.

If KC is going to continue to be in the shotgun most of the time, it needs a back who has good stop-start. Shuttle time and first 20-yards split are important.

Watch the tape on snell... he can play. I’d love snell in the 4th. Productive in sec when he was the primary weapon for Kentucky. He’s not a burner but he’s 220 and can play. Don’t be fooled by men in spandex. Snell is the real deal.

I was watching combine stuff tonight and saw snell. Then watched his highlights. He seems like a good bruiser with balance. I’m on board with taking him in the 4th.

I watched Snell a lot in college. I don’t think he’s explosive enough for the NFL. He doesn’t have the acceleration or quickness to be effective out of the shotgun for the Chiefs, IMO. He could be effective in a situation where he’s just running downhill, I think, but I don’t see an every down guy.

Give me the kid from OU

I would still take a flyer on Holyfield with a 6th. Look at his tape. Does that look like a 4.79 to anybody? Emmitt Smith ran something in that range and I'd say he had a pretty productive career.

If I'm a GM this 40 time isn't making me lose any sleep. If anything it just dropped him lower for me to snag now. Same goes for Singletary.

Henderson ran a 4.49... quoted at 4.36 in this article? And on snell, how did snell out run so many sec defenders each week? Barring injury, snell will be a great back.

He didn’t succeed by outrunning SEC defenders. He was in a run-heavy scheme that fed him the ball consistently and used dual-threat QBs to open up running lanes. If you watch his highlights, there are no long runs in there and he pretty consistently is caught from behind in SEC action.

He has decent burst, and good power, but he’s a downhill runner who needs time to accelerate through a hole and get his pas squared.

I don’t think that’s a good fit for Chiefs offense. He doesn’t have the quick start-stop KC needs from its backs. Hunt didn’t have breakaway speed, but he was very quick and elusive at the LoS. Snell doesn’t have that elusiveness.

He may find a role somewhere but Duncan is right regarding how we run our offense.

You can't have Snell in this backfield with the amount of shotgun formation we run. He's just not sudden enough.

Alex Barnes put up some impressive power, explosion, and agility numbers for a 6' 226lb RB at the NFL combine. Media reacts to Alex Barnes combine performance here.

https://247sports.com/college/kansas...9/#129622749_8

Pretty excited about the numbers my guy Ryquell Armstead put out there. Still the guy I hope KC drafts day 3.

David Montgomery will make you forget Kareem hunt was born.

Was just doing some research on Miles Sanders. I think that might be my RB draft crush. I think he would be the perfect back for this offense. And he’s not a guy you are going to have to take super early while we address other needs

Honestly, Ozigbo seems like the guy Veach would covet. He's big. He's fast. He's good in pass pro. He's a good receiver, just not active enough when things break down for his QB but he can learn that. He doesn't have the elite contact balance, but he's okay there. He gets up to speed immediately, just insane burst.

Alot of good sized backs in this draft if he wants to take one. If I'm looking right around 220 or so you have Montgomery, Anderson, Armstead, Barnes, Jacobs, Mattison, Ollison, Scott, Snell, Ozigbo, and Crockett for sure.