Agreed. There's just such a disconnect with athletes and the outside world in terms of making money for a living (i realize it's a scoreboard to a lot of them just trying to prove their worth by making more than their peers). How many mansions do you need? Hell just place 35 million in the bank and live off the interest.

The players want a bigger share of the revenue coming in. And revenue is at an all time high while the cap only goes up 10-20% each year.

It's the player's bodies that get ruined. It's their 10-15 surgeries during a career. I don't blame them.

On what planet?

It takes about 6 months before you can even start really moving on it and doing serious rehab. That puts you at training camp. Another 3 months just to get to about 75% and maybe play. That puts you into November. It can take another 6 months to get to 100%, meaning he won't be at 100% for any segment of the season so whatever he does play won't be optimal.

This is something that comes up that never makes ****ing sense to me.

"He has to get that money while he can."

WHAT MONEY? HOW MUCH?

Anyone on the planet should be able to live out their life with 5 million in the bank if they just aren't out buying dumb shit on the daily like Iverson did.

So I wish people would STFU about this when these dudes make enough in one season to last for them and their grandkids lives.

Seriously. Who knows how much Pat even makes from just endorsements alone. Kelsey is worth over 100 million. Pat has to already have that.

So why is this even a discussion in here? I've never understood these convos.

Dude I'm friends with LOTS of former NFL players and work with them at times, and this shit is not true. None of it. Sure there's guys here or there with lasting injuries but this shit has been blown so out of proportion it's insane.

And even if you needed 10 surgeries why do you need 50 million dollars?

The only correct response to this is, Patrick Mahomes has no peers currently in the NFL playing QB.

5 million? Won't go as far as you think.

I love Chris Jones to death, didn’t mind if the Chiefs let him go earlier in the year but he’s made it a lot harder now.

I still think you make the tough decision to keep Sneed and let Jones go. Spags will figure out how to get pressure with different guys.

Besides, aren’t we all looking forward to opposing fans telling us the chiefs are done because we lost Chris Jones only only to keep winning titles in different ways?

I was against giving into Joles but whatever. We need to keep both of them.

My thoughts on Jones over in the draft forum:

I think you can bring them both back without mortgaging TOO much. It'll take a little compromise from Jones (and if he's wanting 4 years of 'real' money, it's not going to happen). But if he's willing to accept some fake money at the back of the deal, you can bring them both back without really blasting the cap.

And then you can use restructures as Taylor/Mahomes are willing to clear another $40 million as needed to look into adding more weapons/OT help.

It's not a brutally difficult path forward to keep this roster largely intact and even boost it in some key areas. It's not my normal path, but pursuing a 3-peat aint a normal scenario.

Just do the Denver move and promise him a ton of money to be a consultant after he retires.

The cap floor is tied to revenue. It isn't how much the cap goes UP that determines what the overwhelming majority of players get, it's the floor that does it.

The cap controls the salaries at the high end; the few dozen guys every year that can really push the market. But there are literally thousands of NFL players and for most of them, the spending floor determines how much they'll be able to make.

And if the NFLPA thinks they're not getting a fair share of the revenue split, then they should stop trading capital in negotiations for fewer practice days and lighter drug testing.

I think you're overstating the complaints of the NFLPA here.

This post is insane on multiple levels. To first off pretend that these guys don't pay a physical price later in life is just factually inaccurate. People that work on the line at Ford pay a price for the wear and tear on their bodies...these players sure as shit do.

And in regards to the money part, why shouldn't they be paid handsomely? The money is there...it's the biggest money making machine in all of entertainment. If not the players, who should those dollars go to? And who are you to say how much money someone needs? Many of these players are earning money for not only themselves, but entire family trees present and future. They are worth exactly what someone will pay them and they'd be stupid not to maximize those earnings in the very short window they have to acquire that wealth.

If a player has made 9 figures and is on the tail end of their career I suppose I can understand taking a little less to stay somewhere they prefer, but thats a small number of guys in this league.

Do you just tag Jones if his agents still want to be smarmy little ****s and be done with it? Veach was willing to give him 2 more years at 27.5 million each almost fully guaranteed. The tag number is in that ballpark, and easily affordable if they really are going to restructure Mahomes. This is of course assuming we sign Sneed to a LTD.

I'm speaking from actual experience you chode. I literally work with several former players and they all still train and lift and do athletic shit at high levels. They aren't the ****ing walking wounded.

Second, the whole "they are paying for their family family" blah blah, dude STFU. No family linage needs 100 million dollars to "get by". And second, all the players I talk to have been smart with their money and don't feel like their NFL careers were meant to setup their great grandkids for prosperity.

You're just repeating a bunch of nonsense most of you who just jerk off online to this stuff do. Stay in your lane and pipe down.

I'm not trying to shit on anyone's parade but you just have to look at the mathematics and reality of the situation in some way and realize it's just not overly feasible to keep both Sneed and Jones. You can only back-end so much money in reality on a deal. You can only ignore so much when it comes to the other FAs you have to sign/re-sign.

I posted already that you can get 28.7 by fullying pushing Mahomes' 35.9m roster bonus into signing bonus (1/5th will still end up on this year's cap). If you keep Jones, you just ate up the bulk of that. So basically, call that Jones + 2024 In-Season Operating Cash.

Everything else you do from that point is reliant upon the cap space you already know that you have, which is approximately 24m + 12m for cutting MVS. Now, maybe you can manage something with Omenihu and pick up around 5m there. You aren't gaining much in probably much of anything else you do and then there are things you just don't want to do like pushing money with Thuney or Kelce.

Now, a segment of the money you have is going to sign your draft class. Right now our rookie pool is 8.3m with a top-51 valuation somewhere around 2.8m So let's just call a minimum of 3m is going to be added to our cap liabilities so now you are at about 33m in space.

You have 5 ERFAs and you usually keep those because they are cheap. So take off 4.5m for those guys. You're at 28.5m.

You have 19 other UFA/RFA players. Every UFA pretty much costs 1.1m or more. If you are counting our draft picks to take over some of those spots, then you need to sign 13 players, at least. That automatically has you down to 14m in remaining cap IF you were only signing vet min guys to fill those 13 holes. Now, we all know you aren't going to spend only vet min on every single one.

So, how are you finding a way to fit one of the best CBs in the league in there? The truth is, you're probably not. Sneed would have to take a massive first-year discount on his contract and backload the deal. Essentially he'd be making his signing bonus this year. What do you think his odds are of upping that if he hits the market? I bet they are more than good.

You aren't franchising Sneed either. That hit is 18.4m.

It's keep Jones or keep Sneed and maybe bolster some other spots a bit more. You have to pick your poison. It's really that simple.

I don't know, Chris Jones has to pay for two everywhere he goes.

It's not as much as Sneed being ok doing it as it is Clark being open to writing a big check.

You feel the same way about all of those billionaires and CEOs making millions as well?

No dragging it out with Chris Jones this offseason would be my hope.

Either he is willing to work with the Chiefs to stay or if he is intent on getting $30+ million AAV then the Chiefs can move on.

I guess I missed the post where people were saying CEO's are underpaid and need to get their $ now while they can.

I've never seen anyone defend CEO salaries like they do NFL players. But much like NFL players its all about what the market will pay.

I have no idea what you do for a living but I would venture to guess your "small sample size" is no different than the number of examples of the guys who've blown their brains out due to CTE or those who are now selling cars at the local Toyota dealership trading on their old fame/name.

The fact you are assuming how much money ANYONE needs is idiotic and no amount of puffing out your chest or claiming "you know guys" changes that.

Your argument essentially boils down to you thinking that you know better what someone else needs than they do themselves. I know a couple countries you could move to that share that philosophy.

Oh there's no way it'll drag out.

With the money he's seeking, he'll have to get it in the first few days of FA or it'll dry up. Teams don't leave that kind of cap space just lying around into June.

There's going to be a fairly fast resolution here, IMO.

How fast? This week?

I feel like if you are in your 20s you would need at least 10M. If you are under the assumption you would never make any money ever again.

Wouldn't you want to get what you're worth while you can? Especially in an industry when one freak injury (see Dre Greenlaw) could impact that?

First 72 hours of FA would be my guess.

So no, not THAT fast...

As much as they can while they can. It doesn't matter what you or I think is a satisfactory amount. It's like trying to negotiate your next salary... are you okay having the employer dictate the offer or are you going to try to negotiate the offer? Are you not going to negotiate perks?

If an employer comes at me with 70k and I know the job is worth 100k, I'm pushing for that 100k or more. And then somewhere you will settle. Once that's settled, I'm pushing for the perks. I'm not waiting 5 years for 3 weeks vacation. I want 3 weeks negotiated in at the start. I'm not paying for my hotels, the company is. I don't want to pay for my vehicle, the company can. I'm pushing for those things because if they want you bad enough they'll find a way to make it work. And maybe you come to a concession on some of it.

And when I walk away with a company truck to use, company-paid hotels and meals when I have to work onsite, remote the rest, unlimited PTO, and a 85k salary now we're talking, right? And now I want some guarantee of more than cost of living raises, so I'm negotiating that for a set number of years. So I ask for 5% plus COL for the first 3 years. And I've done this, and it's worth it.

And so when you look at these NFL players, are they not doing the same thing? In their case they want more guaranteed money, they want more up front. Why? Because who knows what the next bag will be or if there will be one. Get it while they can get it. It's alot harder to go back to the table after the deal is done.

The difference might not be living but how well you're living. I can do alot more with 85k and no vehicle payment than i can with 70k and a vehicle payment. They can do alot more with 15 million than they can with 5. It's all relative.

The only way keeping Jones works is IF KC adds some significant void years (say it's a $30M signing bonus with 2 void years; you could then structure something like 24 - $23M; 25 - $28M; 26 - $28M and with the signing bonus give him 3/$91M).

That COULD be done. And with a max Mahomes restructure and cutting Omenihu and Valdes-Scantling, extending Reid, and giving Sneed 4/$82M, you're still in decent operating shape for 2024.

With those moves and tendering the ERFA, signing Tranquill to a 2-year deal in his price range, and not doing anything else other than the Mahomes roster bonus restructure, I'm at about $33M in space. That would be enough to sign the rookies, clearly, and also make a 1-2 medium moves in FA (a Curtis Samuel type at WR, for example).

It would put you in VERY rough shape in 2025.

I would take the opposite route with Omenihu. I would extend him instead of cut him. Get his cap hit down this next year and add a couple of years onto his deal. He flourished in this defense and I'd want him back when he's healthy.

So by your logic: From a homeless persons perspective - they should be more than satisfied making a VERY COMFORTABLE lifestyle salary of, $100k/year because that's all they should ever "need"?

There's levels to this shit. Your lifestyle isn't their lifestyle. So what, they may want to buy a $3m car or wear a $250K chain and buy multiple mansions. I'm sure you have unnecessarily expensive guilty pleasures as well that less fortunate people think is overkill.

Just because, "you know a guy(s)" doesn't mean anyone else's perspective/perceptions isn't valid.

When I modeled a Chris Jones contract for estimative purposes in throwing together mocks, I put two void years into it. It's really hard to share so I attached an image of my spreadsheet...

In any event, its 3/84 + 1.0m/yr 10+ sack bonus and 1.0m/yr Super Bowl appearance bonus. Those would likely be seen as "likely to be earned" at this juncture so they are added to the cap number.

10 million?

How can a person make it on only 300-500k in interest per year? Ramen?

I see what you did there.

Yeah, I like him a bunch. I'm all for extending hm if Jones walks. But if they're keeping Jones, Omenihu seems like more of a luxury than a need to me.

We also have to operate from the perspective that 45-50 percent of what players are paid is gone to taxes, paying their agents and other representation, etc.

Safest is to assume that players only pocket/receive 1/2 of what their salary is.

By the same token, we don't know or consider what they're pulling in from endorsements, etc...

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Jones has only pocketed half his $90 million in career earnings. That's $45 million. Is there any reason at all to say he hasn't cleared another several million in various endorsement opportunities over his career? It's not going to be Mahomes money as a DL, but he's gotta be at $50 million in take-home over the course of his career.

I mean we have inverted yield curves on CDs that will turn out 5% over 9-12 months. There's no reason why he couldn't be pulling down $2+ million/yr in interest on the res.

Jones shouldn't be hurting. Ever. But ultimately he's a guy who clearly sees his contract as a proxy for respect. As I said in the summer - dude's pride is driving the bus. Or at least it was.

We'll see if anything has changed in that regard but I don't see any reason to presume it has.

Keep going, I'm almost there... :whackit:

https://media1.giphy.com/media/Zd1BU...&rid=giphy.gif

I would be curious as to what endorsement deals he will get this offseason. If you remember, Kelce was never on TV prior to last season’s SB win. Suddenly he was everywhere (even pre Taylor). Jones is well spoken and should be more appealing now after the SB win, especially with his impact during this run. He is far more well known to average Joe America.

In general, 10 million plenty of money and easy to live off of for a 20 year old and still have the full bag for retirement.

Hell, if a person has 1.5-2 million they could live very well in most of the country and still have the bag in the end.

I’d give jones 28 mil a year, 4 year deal. 90 mil guaranteed with 3 mil in incentives each year. 1 mil each for all pro, 10 plus sacks and Super Bowl win

Spags's D is at its best when he has flexible players that can be moved around, and that's what Omenihu is. He performed very well and I think he is a piece Spags would prioritize.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;You&#39;re the greatest to ever do it.&quot;<br><br>This moment between <a href="https://twitter.com/tkelce?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@tkelce</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/StoneColdJones?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@StoneColdJones</a> after <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SBLVIII?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SBLVIII</a>. ❤️ <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLFilms?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFLFilms</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/insidetheNFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@insidetheNFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/lBaRNqz3nE">pic.twitter.com/lBaRNqz3nE</a></p>&mdash; NFL (@NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1757430760238117264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 13, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The difference is that when Chris Jones gets $100M they don't layoff the hot dog vendors making minimum wage.

So, how could this look?

1. Restructure Patrick Mahomes ($36M) +$28.8M
2. Extend Justin Reid (4 years, $49.4M) +$6M
3. Cut Marquez Valdes-Scantling + $12M
4. ERFA Tender Herring, Caliendo, Cochrane, Nazi Johnson -$3.87M
5. Extend Drue Tranquill (2 years, $10.2M) -$4.6M
6. Extend Charles Omenihu (3 years, $29.9M) +$3M

Using the OTC calculator, that puts the Chiefs at $52.375M of cap space with 49 players under contract.

So, let’s experiment with a Jones AND Sneed re-up.

1. Extend Chris Jones (5 years, $150M, with $40M signing bonus, cap hits of 18.1, 26.1, 28.1 in first 3 years to get him to 3/88 and add some incentives to get to 3/90 )
2. Extend L’Jarious Sneed (4 years, $80.9M with $24M signing bonus, cap hits of 13.125, 19.2, 22.2, 25.3)

With that done, the Chiefs are sitting with 50 players under contract for 2024 with about $36.5M in cap space. The 2025 outlook is tough, though – 27 players under contract with only about $20M of effective cap space.

You’d be able to create a lot of space in 25 with a Mahomes restructure, but this plan probably leaves you committing to – at most – 1 of Bolton, Humphrey, and Trey Smith. Or cutting Joe Thuney and eating $10M of dead cap to gain $16M in space.

NFL players aren't generally creating thousands of jobs. Unless you can start to name all of them that I'm unaware of.

NFL players have a small window to get paid...a CEO can get paid basically till the day he dies if he chooses.

That's a weird comparison.

What exactly is the point you're trying to make?

This is exactly the sort of thing I'd have been adamantly opposed to had we NOT won this year and completely in support of because we have.

It's a chance at a 3-peat, fellas. Oh it makes 2025 a real shit-show. At worst it will make 2026 a problem. But this is a chance that, what, a half dozen teams in NFL history have had?

It is against every fiber of my being but I really think it's how we should approach it.

I think he's trying to say a CEO creates jobs so he's more deserving of being rich than an NFL player is.

Ok name the guys. I'll wait. Junior Seau shot himself in the chest. Outside of him name the guys that killed themselves, compared to how many guys that have played in the league and what that percentage is. Especially just compared to the general population.

Seoncd, you don't know my sample size. Last year I spent a whole weekend working with over 60 players out in Texas. You don't know shit about me dickhead. You're some blowhard that literally knows nothing about this.

Furthermore, you missed my point. I don't care what the players get. If they want to chase the money that's fine. But the idiotic comments about how they have to get tens of millions now to setup generational wealth or somehow their grandchildren will live in poverty is some shit that poster children for mental poverty would say.

And anyone saying 5 million isn't enough to finish your life on doesn't know shit about money. Period. And I clear 2 million a year.

In that scenario, you:

Cut Thuney. June 1st if you need too.
Let Smith walk.
Bring back Bolton and Humphrey unless they want to break the bank.

You also have to assume that Kelce is going to retire at some point. That could be after 2024 which would take his cap hit off the books.

Joe Thuney is a really expensive guard you should be able to move off that by then.

Bottom line, we are going to lose a lot of quality back ups and or core players.

I think it comes down to...

Is Chiefs ownership prepared to hand out $40M in a signing bonus to Patrick Mahomes this year? And then do it again in 25? And again in 26? And again in 27? And in 2028, spend big cash on his "last" contract?

I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to do that.

Veach needs to nail the LT position long term this offseason given the uncertainty at all 3 IOL positions we'll be facing soon.

Well Clark has been way more into spending money than Lamar was.

I was just talking to my wife during Clark's speech after the game regarding how PM has elevated KC on a national, if not global, landscape.

It's no stretch to argue that Patrick Mahomes is a BILLION dollar windfall for the Hunt family (and KC writ large).

I don't think they Hunts are hurting for cash or prospective creditors. The money is there and Hunt's typically been willing to spend it. I don't imagine this would be much different.

Surely some players will take a little less money to threepeat

I mean yea something else to think about is all the extra playoff revenue, Mahomes, Kelce even the Swift hype, the Chiefs are likely so much more profitable than ever before.

How much, of say, a 1B stadium renovation will they be looking at as well

This is true but at worst we've drafted a blue chip caliber caliber player and strong contributing player each draft the last 4 years.

Sneed, Gay
Bolton, Creed
McDuffie (or Karlaftis) and whichever of the many strong contributors you fancy
Rice, Conner

If Veach keeps hitting like this the cap won't be a major problem

Shooting themselves in the head was hyperbole. If you believe players don't suffer from CTE, advanced/earlier arthritis, mental health issues due to the nature of their jobs than I don't know what to tell you :shrug: But there's a boatload of evidence out there if you want to google. All or most of which could have a detrimental affect on both future earnings potential or cost of living.

I stated, quite clearly, I DON'T KNOW YOUR SAMPLE SIZE. You've apparently talked to 60 former players...congrats! That probably 0.01% of retired players in the Super Bowl era. Don't think that hits like you thought it did.

If your point is that it's possible to live on $5M for the rest of your life, then ok I guess. A lot of people could make that work. Does that mean these guys shouldn't try to maximize their earnings? Help their extended family and set up their kids? Live with luxuries and not want to worry about ever working again? They're the absolute best in the world at a job that maybe 1 in a million is talented enough to have. And here you are bitching that they shouldn't reap the benefit or try to leverage their talent and hard work into as much of a reward as they possibly can in the small timeframe that window is open. All while crossing their fingers they don't get an injury that knocks them out of the league 5 years earlier than they were hoping.

Again...no idea what you do. Don't give a shit. Hopefully its not in finance. High five for making so much money though. That's really cool and helped your argument.

Think about this...

If we bring back Jones, Sneed, then get one legit WR in FA, that's enough to run it back, 3peat. That's not even counting the draft in April. Amazing! LMAO

LMAO

Well, of course $5MM is plenty to retire on for +98% of the people in this Country. Hell, the average retirement balance for Americans at age 65 is ~$500K.

That said, when you are accustomed to their lifestyle and don't want to surrender that entirely, $5MM isn't going to get it done. I'm guessing a fair number of those guys that are chasing big dollars could end up with $5MM or less due to their inability to manage their finances - especially after their careers come to an end. But, you don't have a chance unless you've bundled a pretty big sum over a short time span for NFL players (generally well <10 years). So, I completely understand their thinking of trying to maximize their value while they can.

Jones is literally on the cusp of being in the HOF, that a lone may push him to take a smaller than he could get on open FA to come back.

I think odds are he is going to get in but if he's part of another championship team he could be 1st ballot.

How is he not already in? He’s dominating. And won three super bowls. Dude is in when he hangs it up. Just like Pat, Kelce, and Buttkicker

You don't think that the economic impact that the Chiefs have in KC... facilitated by the on field success of Mahomes, Kelce, etc. doesn't create jobs?

He's in... I'm not sure he's a first ballot. Kinda depends on the class.

theoretically say you let cj go. does that money spent elsewhere make up for the impact cj brings? does it ensure 2-3 clutch plays in key moments of the biggest games of the season? i don't think it does.

just pay the man his money and be done with it. the guy has had a mahomes level impact on defense. it's what he does, when he does it, and the stage he does it on that i don't think you can ever replicate.

I love Jones but we just don't have the luxury of breaking the bank for an aging player.

We need a LT and 2 wide recievers on offense. I believe Sneed is more important to our D and is younger.

We just won 2 super bowls in our reloading and down year. Yes we want the 3 peat but I want to have enough fire power to win every year. Mahomes has literally won a Super Bowl 50% of the seasons he has played with us being smart with the cap.

But you're not gonna win one every year.

You have a chance to do something that's never been done. Not in the history of the league.

Go do that.

Say you play it safe, reload and end up winning a couple more down the line. Great. No one will remember that.

You win 3? Yeah.

I'm not as sure as you.

Pro-Football-reference has a nice chart of HOF odds. Jones now sits at 57.15 while the average HOF DT gets 102 total points. They factor in everything and atm the players above him that are under the 102 are guys like Suh(84.58), Fletcher Cox(78.38), Geno Atkins(76.33), Haloti Ngata(64.53), Heyward(62.95), Wilfork(60.35) and a few others.

Could and should all those guys get in? Maybe

Could Jones keep playing for several years to add on to his stats/career numbers? Sure

The problem is his stats are not really that mind blowing and those now 3 SBs help him a lot. Looks like his overall tackles hurt him the most and he will need to keep the sacks and SBs coming to make up for that!

I agree that if being selected into the Hall of Fame is important to him than he needs to ask himself how much monetary wise is the HOF to him? I'm sure a LOT of retired boarder line HOF guys would pay a lot to make it in.

$32M and much lower odds of making the Hall
VS
$28M and much higher odds of making the Hall

Same, and I agree that the tackle stats are very unimpressive. But, what they don't measure is how absolutely disruptive he is to the other teams gameplan, and how his pressure disrupts what the other team can and can't do. He's a real MF'r to scheme around.

At 75 career sacks, he's almost certainly going to hit 100 over the next 3 seasons. A 3-time champion (the lone throughput of the 2020s dynastic Chiefs) with 100 sacks from the interior line who's been very media friendly his entire career? That will sail into the HoF.

Winning a Super Bowl takes a lot of luck. Especially in the injury department.

We are already a dynasty. We are going to be remembered. I would take Mahomes winning 8 Super Bowls over a 3 peat.

You're arguing to argue and missed every point I've made.

I've been working with former NFL players for some time.
Most of them still train hard and have no debilitating injuries (this doesn't mean some don't, so don't make a strawman argument)
My sample size is large enough over a decade that I do know what I'm talking about

I am all for players getting their money, but the idea that it's their one big payout is ridiculous. Once a guy gets into the NFL he has every opportunity to do something with that to capitalize on it either during his time as an active player, or post career.

No one NEEDS 50+ million to live off of. And the argument that they have to support multiple generations is absurd when no one else does that or is responsible for the next generation of family

I am VERY AWARE of CTE and worked with a large company for years looking at various nutritional and supplemental approaches to help reduce CTE conditions.

If guys want to chase a bag I support it. I don't support the silly arguments as to why they should.

Hall of Fame monitor seems pretty flawed in my view. Mahomes was listed at 93 at the end of the regular season. They only increased it to 95 after leading the team on a legendary run to win a 3rd championship. He is still listed below the stat padding chokers Matt Ryan and Phil Rivers. The list does not pass the smell test.