We do have a lot of money coming off the books and there is more TV money coming in. He does have a 4.6 WAR or something like that level, correct?

Crasnick of ESPN says the Cardinals and Perolta are closing in on a deal.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...ing-in-on-deal

I guees I'd rather pay money than give up one of these Miller/Martinez/Rosenthal to get Hardy etc.

At least the Cardinals are not waiting around for these clubs trade demands to get realistic.

Anyone is going to be better than Kozma.

Ridiculous how a lack of quality at short has made the market for a player coming off a suspension for PEDs who is a career .268/.330/.425 hitter that averages 136 Ks per 162. That said, he's a big jump over Kozma.

Yes, but Drew is going to go higher and another left handed hitting infielder is not what we needed to upgrade SS, especially at Boras prices. It likely is going to be less than what we would have paid Andrus (plus we get to keep the prospects).

He should add more consistent offense than Freese, which means Wong only needs to hit better than Kosma for the infield to come out ahead. It will be interesting to see how the OF rotation shakes out if they decide to keep Adams.

Update I just got said that was the deal the Cards were close to closing.

According to this link deal around 52mil for 4years. I can live with that considering the alternatives.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10...2-million-deal

Now if only Garcia can comeback halfway decent maybe we can parlay him into something useful.

That's not a great deal, but it's not a terrible one either. Peralta has always been a surprisingly good defender, and his bat profiles very well in the 6 or 7 hole.

I can definitely live with that. Saved the draft pick, likely to get another one, and the upgrade between Peralta and Kozma offensively is bigger than going from Freese to Evan Longoria.

Will signing Peralta cost us a pick?

No. Peralta did not receive a QO. And since first round draft picks provide, on average, 4 WAR over the course of their careers, that's an additional savings of $20-28 million over the opportunity cost of signing Drew.

Have to wonder if Taveras is still in the Cardinals plans. I would think he would at minimum be an insurance policy against Craig being injured again. I wouldn't think Tavaras' ankle problems would carry over to the next year unless he needs surgery.

He is, but he's also a very young player who has some maturity issues, hasn't seen a ton of AAA pitching, and is coming off a significant injury, for which he had surgery.

Keeping him in Memphis past the Super Two deadline is not the worst thing in the world. Barring injury, he'll contribute next year.

In addition to what Hamas mentioned the savings in not losing the draft pick extend to keeping pool money and the extra flexibility that gives them. Lot of factors driving his price up but not a ton more money than I expected him to be getting in this market so I'm okay with it.

Cards sign Peralta to a 4 year deal worth $13 mil/yr. Avoid giving up a first round pick and any of our young pitching and should give us a WAR of 3 over four years. Not perfect but I'll take it.

Best we could do in this market. Look at where Mo went first in trades and what it would have cost us....

Hardy for one year = Miller
Aryba for one or two years = Miller
Tulo and his huge contract= Miller/Kelly/Craig/Seigriest
Profar/Andrus = Miller/Adams
Drew = Lose 1st round pick

If we use last years $116 payroll number, even with our arb raises and the due increase in our existing contracts we have $35 million left before we reach that number this year.

Peralta doesn't cost us a draft pick or our prized cost controlled talent. We have the cash to overpay at what the market demands. I don't think he can play SS longer than 2 years. At least it gives us 2 years to figure out a long term solution.

I'm fine with Peralta as well. His bat seemed to improve last season.

PED does that.

The Burjoles move means Taveras starts in AAA. Mo will save the cost controlled year.

We are the best team in the NL. We don't need to push Taveras.

But, we are going to have to move someone next year. We have a glut of RF in 2015 that are going to need playing time.

Read a chat on STL today with the beat reporter that said Craig told the Cardinals he is more comfortable in RF and would like to play there if at all possible.

Next steps:

1) Add Jeff Baker to the bench to provide a solid platoon partner for Wong/Carpenter/Adams as well as a great bat off the bench against late-inning situational lefties. This name is unfamiliar to most, but look him up. In almost 900 career plate appearances against lefties, he's proven to essentially be Allen Craig with more power. This guy is a perfect solution to our lefty concerns and he's so far under the radar that he should come cheap. I've been banging this drum since August - the guy is a perfect fit. He's played 2b, 3b, 1b and some outfield.

2) Add Michael Morse to the bench to provide all-purpose power to the bench as well as someone capable of playing IF and OF (has played major league innings at 3b, SS, 1b and OF)

3) Trade Jay for a C or 3b prospect.

At that point you have a bench of:

Morse
Baker
Descalso
Robinson
Cruz

That gives you power, speed, defense, positional flexibility and a couple of guys that could even start for prolonged periods of time in the event of injury. If he could swing that, the Cardinals would have an outstanding bench.

Even after the Peralta signing, their team payroll appears to be about $15 million below last season's. That's plenty of money to get Baker and Morse on 2 year deals (that shouldn't hamstring us when the young kids are no longer cost controlled and are looking at their arb years).

He was not tied to PED's in 2013, it was 2012.

I think it's pretty obvious jay is the odd man out.

When he played like shit.;)

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...-ped-penalties

Good Read and so true.

Lineup fun

Carp 3B
Bourjols CF
Holliday LF
Craig RF
Molina C
Adams 1B
Peralta SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Swap out Bourjols and Peralta in the order and I'm cool with it also. If Wong hits .280 with a 350 OB% he should hit 2b because of the speed.

If he gives you a .350 OB%, I'd be tempted to hit him leadoff and move Carpenter to either the 2 hole or the 5 hole.

If you want lineup fun, try one where Bourjos builds on the momentum he established before getting hurt last year and becomes a legit top of the order hitter and Wong plays to his minor league numbers:

Bourjos (R)
Wong (L)
Holliday (R)
Craig (R)
Carpenter (L)
Molina (R)
Adams (L)
Peralta (R)

And you could let Bourjos and Wong do some serious running at the top of the order.

Granted, I'm being damn wishful there, but that lineup is vile and would be nearly impossible to pitch to. Especially in interleague play after we pick up Morse to DH for us :D

Our new CFer:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UxbnZEnIrIQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

JIMP

We are the best lineup on paper in the NL. When we regress to a more normal hitting with runners in scoring position the new lineup will help make up the difference.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems carpenter is a prototypical 2 hitter.


I dunno that Wong or bourjos can lead off, but if they could is rather see carp in te 2 hole

Totally agree. His doubles power would be much better suited in the 2-spot in the line-up. If either Wong or Bourjos can put up the OBP to justify hitting leadoff, this team is going to be lethal.

His doubles power and contact skills are precisely why he's also perfectly suited to hit 5th or 6th. His bat control and contact skills make him a guy that would be without peer at getting that run in from 3b with less than two outs or the guy that turns a 1 run inning into a crooked number and a potential knockout blow.

Yes, he's great in the 2 hole, but if Wong and Bourjos both prove to be accomplished, top of the order style hitters, the lineup is better with Wong/Bourjos at the top and Carpenter in an RBI spot than it is with Carpenter batting 2 and Wong or Bourjos batting 8th ahead of the pitcher.

I made the mistake of reading some comments about the Peralta signing on the Post Dispatch website. What a bunch of holier than thou douchenozzles. They make it sound like they are going to burn all their Cards gear just because Mo signed a guy that served a PEDS suspension.

People that post on STLToday are a bunch of jackasses.

Reminds me of the Star website in the early 2000's.

I have never found a Cardinal site worth a shit. VEB has great analysis in their articles, but the comments section is full of intolerable twats.

There was some forum RamsFan directed me to, but I got banned after like 20 posts because I argued with someone. I've only perused the Dispatch comments section occasionally, but I've heard it's absolutely noxious.

I have a board I've posted at since the late 90s.

The registration process can be a little annoying because I think they only accept emails from certain domains (I think gmail works but I'm not sure Yahoo does, for instance). If anyone's interested, I can PM you the details and you can peruse to see if you want to post.

It's a bunch of pretty knowledgeable guys; less romper room than the PD and, IMO, far more baseball oriented.

There's nothing anything remotely resembling CP, though. This place probably peaked around 150 active members a decade or so ago. It's smaller now but the folks there really know their shit.

The board which I referred you to is completely different from CP. Any shit talking that's done here would be an instaban there.

It's still a pretty good board, though. Baseball talk is statistical and you don't have to go through any shit like you do at the STL Today forum. One downside, though, is that the social threads seem to be lacking as opposed to here.

97% of the posters on the STL Today forums are either complete morons or bipolar mother ****ers.

The 3% that aren't get their views drowned out by the majority. This applies to the Cardinals, Rams and Blues forum as well as Bernie Miklasz's forum.

I harbor no ill will, my son.

A couple of years ago I asked for some good Cardinal websites and tried to register at your site and never got past the email thing.

Hell the best Royals message board is right here. Sounds like between the Royals fans and Cards fans on here we could start a Missouri baseball message board and get some decent traffic.

PM Bob Dole?

ROFL That response never gets lame. Well played sir, well played.

This place (I've lurked for a while) and ShaggyBevo seem to be about the only places that have a decent, non schizophrenic Cardinals discussion.

Welcome to the conversation. It's going to be a great year to be a Cardinal fan,

I also think it was smart to front load the contract. The last year is "only" 10 mil when he will likely be showing at least some signs of decline. At that price he could be a key bench player if salary progressions continue upward.

Yeah it sure did him wonders in 2012 when he was getting the PEDs.

Chris Davis waves hello

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>BREAKING: Source says Yankees and Carlos Beltran have agreed to a three-year deal. More details to come.</p>&mdash; Mark Feinsand (@FeinsandNYDN) <a href="https://twitter.com/FeinsandNYDN/statuses/409151635265683456">December 7, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Cool, good for him. He gets paid to DH, and for 3rd straight year, Cards get 2 1st round picks. Well done, Mo.

We still get the same comp pick, right?

I don't believe the new CBA punishes the surrendering team if the acquiring team has a more highly rated FA acquisition, correct?

Well, I'd think so, but have to ask: is Peralta rated higher than Beltran, and what other reason would Beltran be offered arbitration?

Yeah, we still get the pick.

Per mlbtraderumors

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...s-beltran.html

Peralta was not offered.

Cano and Granderson were both given QO's that they turned down.

Had every FA who declined signed w/ another team, the Cardinals would have gotten the 43rd pick. As is, their comp pick is somewhere around 38-40.

<table class="stats_table" summary="" cellspacing="0"><thead><tr><th colspan="2" scope="col">Round 1</th> <th scope="col"> </th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td>1. Astros</td> <td>17. Orioles</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2. Marlins</td> <td><del>18. Yankees</del></td> </tr> <tr> <td>3. White Sox</td> <td>19. Royals</td> </tr> <tr> <td>4. Cubs</td> <td>20. Nationals</td> </tr> <tr> <td>5. Twins</td> <td>21. Reds</td> </tr> <tr> <td>6. Mariners</td> <td>22. Rangers</td> </tr> <tr> <td>7. Phillies</td> <td>23. Rays</td> </tr> <tr> <td>8. Rockies</td> <td>24. Indians</td> </tr> <tr> <td>9. Blue Jays</td> <td>25. Dodgers</td> </tr> <tr> <td>10. Mets</td> <td>26. Tigers</td> </tr> <tr> <td>11. Blue Jays*</td> <td>27. Pirates</td> </tr> <tr> <td>12. Brewers</td> <td>28. Athletics</td> </tr> <tr> <td>13. Padres</td> <td>29. Braves</td> </tr> <tr> <td>14. Giants</td> <td>30. Red Sox</td> </tr> <tr> <td>15. Angels</td> <td>31. Cardinals</td> </tr> <tr> <td>16. D-backs</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody> <thead> <tr> <th colspan="2" scope="col">Comp Round A**</th> <th scope="col"> </th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td colspan="2">32. Mariners (Morales)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">33. Yankees (Cano/Granderson/Kuroda)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">34. Yankees (Cano/Granderson/Kuroda)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">35. Yankees (Cano/Granderson/Kuroda)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">36. Royals (Santana)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">37. Reds (Choo)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">38. Rangers (Cruz)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">39. Indians (Jimenez)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">40. Braves (McCann)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">41. Red Sox (Drew/Ellsbury/Napoli)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">42. Red Sox (Drew/Ellsbury/Napoli)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">43. Red Sox (Drew/Ellsbury/Napoli)</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">44. Cardinals (Beltran)</td></tr></tbody></table>

Why do we get the 44 pick?

Since Napoli signed w/ Boston, pick 43 goes away.
Since Kuroda signed w/ NYY, pick 35 goes away
Since NYY signed McCann, pick 18 goes away.

Imagine that Jimenez, Drew, Cruz, Choo, Morales, Santana sign w/ teams outside the top ten. That would mean six more first round draft picks go away. If they re-sign w/ their original team, same thing happens.

Cardinals' comp pick should be around 35-37.

Coinflip best record w/ Red Sox. The comp picks are doled out in reverse order of finish.

So we turned john jay, David freese, and Pete kozma into Johnny penalty, peter bourjos, Matt carpenter and kolten Wong.


I think the offseason has been pretty successful this far. Like to see some pop added to he bench still

I believe the Cubs are on the verge of forfeiting their pick to the Phillies over a previous rule 5 pick that didn't spend enough time on the Cubs MLB squad.

I'm also curious why Boston picks 30 and stl 31, was that also a coin flip? I figure if anyone knows, it's Hamas.

2012 record for 1st round. Since they lost a million games, they pick first.

Forgot to mention that the Cards' first pick will be 30th at worst. The more players that sign w/ teams outside the top ten in the draft order, the higher our first is. It'd be pretty nice to pick 25 and 35.

Impressive sir. Still should bolster an already strong system with 2 picks 30-37.

Mo has done a fantastic job. Not only getting what we need on the cheap, now we can wait on a good trade and not look deperate.

Asking for Miller/Martinez for the SS's that were beeing offered was asine. I'm assuming they thought we would fold and make the deal. Now he can wait to make a deal on his terms.

That would be beautiful to have.

I'm starting to think our GM might be pretty damn good at what he does. A sith lord perhaps.

Yeah, or not make a deal at all.

Honestly, he's just coolly rational. It's a really nice trait to have.

The Cardinals are one of the few franchises that appear to have a VP of common sense. It looks like the Yakuza whacked whoever it was in Seattle.

I'd like to see a SS of the future. Ready in two years. We only bought some time.

Sometimes you just have to kick the can down the road.

Imagine if the US would have tried to establish a beach head in Normandy in January 1942.

The ss position league wide right now is pretty dearth.

I agree with the move Mo made. What teams were demanding was outrageous. Better to not have a SS of the future. Still need to get one. While we are at it, get a hot shot high school Catcher to take over for Molina in 4 years.

Cards sign Mark Ellis to a 1 year deal.

I like it

Yep, perfect fit for whats available in the market. RH bat off the bench and insurance if case Wong falls on his face.

Mo is batting 100% this off season.

Not looking good there. Oscar Mercado is probably the best and he was a second round pick last year, is just 18. He could be a ways away. Juan Herrera came from the Indians but hasn't played above low A ball. Greg Garcia is the closest to being ready, and may make the club in spring, but that would be as a backup.

Nicely done. He's still a plus defender, and although he's a touch below average with the bat overall, he hits LHP very well (+112 wRC), so he can platoon with Wong.

Descalso now offers the team little-to-nothing. Kozma would be a better defensive replacement at short, Ellis at second, and although he may defend at third a touch better than Carpenter, you don't want to take that bat out for someone who is so putrid against LHP.

I don't see how you keep descalso now. His bat isn't really that much improved over kozma, and kozma is a much better defender and base runner

Agreed, Where does Descalso play? Backup 3rd when you can't hit LHP?

Whats his place on the team? He's just taking up a spot now.

I'd like to see us add a little pop off the bench now, but that's a bit nitpicky.

I'd prefer to keep kozma, let him pinch run, be a defensive upgrade at short etc.

He doesn't have a spot. With Garcia being on the 40 man, they might as well outright him.

I don't think that is nitpicky. That's a substantial weakness. Gaby Sanchez would be a perfect target. He straight up murders LHP .333/.448/.539 (179 wRC). You can platoon him with Adams at first, but that puts some stress on Craig, as it offers him fewer chances to rest his legs while keeping his bat in the lineup.

Still, I think that's the move.

Do you try and deal jay now? With bourjos injury concerns I'm not sure you do.

I don't see why not. Shane Robinson can do all the 4th OF things Jay can, and do them better.