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-   -   Chiefs The 4-3 Under and Current Personnel (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320889)

The Franchise 01-25-2019 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 14072041)
And then your pass rush is depleted. You really think we get better on D without both of those guys?

I don’t see any way they let both go when we’re this close.

Which is why I'd restructure Houston and keep him at SLB. Either draft a replacement for Ford at WDE or find one in FA. Ford is not going to be worth the franchise tag or a long term deal in this defense.

JakeF 01-25-2019 11:52 AM

You move Houston back to LB again and offensive will just start running RB/TEs at him over and over again. He's not fast enough to turn and run with anyone. Houston should be a DE now. He is strong enough to set the edge and quick enough to rush the passer.

ToxSocks 01-25-2019 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeF (Post 14072066)
You move Houston back to LB again and offensive will just start running RB/TEs at him over and over again. He's not fast enough to turn and run with anyone. Houston should be a DE now. He is strong enough to set the edge and quick enough to rush the passer.

I like him better at DE as well. He's our best player at sealing the edge, strong at the Point of attack and a good pass rusher/disrupter. Speaks can continue being a rotational guy unless we get a semi-surprise cut by releasing one of Ford or Houston. Find a SLB in F/A or the draft.

ToxSocks 01-25-2019 11:58 AM

My line would be Ford-Jones-Nnadi-Houston.

staylor26 01-25-2019 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeF (Post 14072066)
You move Houston back to LB again and offensive will just start running RB/TEs at him over and over again. He's not fast enough to turn and run with anyone. Houston should be a DE now. He is strong enough to set the edge and quick enough to rush the passer.

If Vernon can play SLB in this scheme than Houston can. His coverage responsibilities won’t be that much different than they have been.

Hydrae 01-25-2019 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkBox (Post 14071931)
A 3-4 is a more flexible defense to run and harder to defend against. I hope the Chiefs don't decide to switch to a 4-3 but like everyone except a few guys running the show it's not up to me. On top of that we're pretty set at nose tackle.

Think about a comment from Andy a couple months ago about the future of pass rushing being about getting pressure up the middle. This makes sense with how fast QBs are getting rid of the ball. The shortest distance to the QB is up the middle.

The two highest sack totals this year were Donald and Jones, both coming up the middle. With a 4-3 you have more guys in that middle so you would expect to get better pressure on the QB more consistently. Just not enough time on most plays for an outside guy to get home.

ToxSocks 01-25-2019 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydrae (Post 14072104)
Think about a comment from Andy a couple months ago about the future of pass rushing being about getting pressure up the middle. This makes sense with how fast QBs are getting rid of the ball. The shortest distance to the QB is up the middle.

The two highest sack totals this year were Donald and Jones, both coming up the middle. With a 4-3 you have more guys in that middle so you would expect to get better pressure on the QB more consistently. Just not enough time on most plays for an outside guy to get home.

The 43 also means you don't need to waste roster spots on "run down" guys. There's no need to carry a big NT or 5 techs that specialize in simply being a "big body".

saphojunkie 01-25-2019 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 14071858)
You don't put Dee Ford at DE. He's too small. You keep him at WLB and put Tanoh in at DE. I think the starting lineup going into training camp would be:

SDE - Allen Bailey/Breeland Speaks
SDT - Derrick Nnadi/Xavier Williams
WDT - Chris Jones/Justin Hamilton
WDE - Tanoh Kpassagnon
SLB - Justin Houston/Frank Zombo
MLB - (Sigh.) Anthony Hitchens/Reggie Ragland/Ben Niemann
WLB - Dee Ford/Dorian O'Daniel

I think the personnel are a good fit for a 4-3.

Bailey is gone. There is no reason to pay him what he's been getting, especially with this switch.

You can extend Houston three years, converting his entire 2019 salary into a signing bonus, which guarantees it, and with a reasonable yearly salary, bring his cap number way down, while still keeping him through Mahomes cheap years. I don't see why he wouldn't do that. It will beat what he can get on the open market, most likely, while also keeping him in house on a SB contender.

Dee Ford... I don't know if they honestly have a plan for him. It might just require getting in with his agent and seeing how the negotiation goes. For the right price, you keep him around as a pass rusher. Spagnuolo likes to get after the QB, and Ford is good at that.

I can see the lineup looking like this:

LEO: Ford/Kpass
NT: Nnadi/Williams
DT: Jones/Hamilton
SDE: Speaks/Houston
WILL: DoD/Nieman
MIKE: Hitchens
SAM: Houston

I am fairly certain you're going to see at least one addition to that group, and I wouldn't be shocked if Ford is gone and the money saved goes directly into the secondary.

Iowanian 01-25-2019 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkBox (Post 14071931)
A 3-4 is a more flexible defense to run and harder to defend against. I hope the Chiefs don't decide to switch to a 4-3 but like everyone except a few guys running the show it's not up to me. On top of that we're pretty set at nose tackle.

I think your comment about it being more difficult for offenses was true with the 34 was an outlier and less common defense. It also was easier a few years ago to find important pieces because less teams were looking for the same OLBs and NT for example.

running the 4-3 makes sense to me because it will be easier to find pieces. Most colleges run 4-3 so it will less reliance on "project guys" to make into your scheme.

The Franchise 01-25-2019 12:18 PM

With as much as this team runs out of the nickle and dime looks.....running a 3-4 puts you at a disadvantage because of the type of linemen that you have for your base defense.

JakeF 01-25-2019 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 14072096)
If Vernon can play SLB in this scheme than Houston can. His coverage responsibilities won’t be that much different than they have been.

Why would you put Houston at any other position when DE fits him so well? Houston provides a pass rush without blitzing, something that every Defense needs. Houston and Jones bring a constant pass rush with no need to expose passing lanes by blitzing someone from the backend.

I would like to say the same about Dee Ford but he isn't physical enough to set the edge and play the run.

ToxSocks 01-25-2019 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeF (Post 14072160)
Why would you put Houston at any other position when DE fits him so well? Houston provides a pass rush without blitzing, something that every Defense needs. Houston and Jones bring a constant pass rush with no need to expose passing lanes by blitzing someone from the backend.

I would like to say the same about Dee Ford but he isn't physical enough to set the edge and play the run.

I agree with all this.

tmax63 01-25-2019 12:35 PM

I disagree. I think you take off the coverage responsibilities from Ford and let him be a true DE he could do well. Only real problem I have with Ford is his injury history and him finally showing up, in a contract year. I think you end up keeping him or Houston but not both. DE's in FA aren't sexy pickups but good ones can be usually found.

The Franchise 01-25-2019 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 14072178)
I agree with all this.

I don't think they can keep Ford and Houston. If they put Houston at DE....then the other DE is going to be Speaks.

The Franchise 01-25-2019 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmax63 (Post 14072183)
I disagree. I think you take off the coverage responsibilities from Ford and let him be a true DE he could do well. Only real problem I have with Ford is his injury history and him finally showing up, in a contract year. I think you end up keeping him or Houston but not both. DE's in FA aren't sexy pickups but good ones can be usually found.

If you put Ford at DE.....teams are going to run over him.


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