I would almost bet at the time they drafted Tyreek it was for specifically to return punts and kickoffs.

He only had 14 punt returns in 6 years. Not much but it’s experience.

Moore shouldn't be returning punts long term. The only reason he's doing it this year is because he's not playing much on offense, so they want to utilize him somehow.

Also Toney is here for 2 more years after this year at bare minimum and if he's what they hope he can be as a WR, then he's not going to be a returner very long either.

Almost like they drafted Tyreek Hill and Mecole Hardman with this in mind LMAO

Yep they drafted him to be a returner.

Doubt it was strictly that. They had him doing WR and RB stuff in minicamp. They drafted him as being a playmaker.


And there's a difference between what was needed from our return teams back then and what we need now. You needed to be aggressive on returns back then because our offense needed that boost. Now we just need a guy to catch the punt and be smart about it.

Does Hardman not WANT to do it?

There is no reason to field a punt if you are up by 21

Complete and absolute bust

He’s maybe the 9th or 10th option on offense. Every other WR, every TE, and every RB are higher in the pecking order catching the ball than this worthless piece of trash.

So far. His crisp routes against lesser competition tricked us

I wonder what he scored on his wonderlic? He looks sooooooo dumb.

Calling anyone a bust 8 games into their career is foolish. Calling a WR on an Andy Reid team a bust 8 games into their career is asinine.

I would agree. Now that being said he has not looked very explosive. I do not see blazing speed nor exceptional quickness in and out of his cuts.

Hardman had the speed and Tyreke had both from day one.

Noah tore it up his first TC then couldn't catch a pass with any consistency. This year looks much better. Grasshopper needs time

Really hoping him and Toney have huge years next season.

Noah was drafted in the 5th round, that kind of progression is perfectly acceptable.

Nobody gives a flying **** what you deem 'acceptable'.

Just put that loser on ignore. He’s either dumb, trolling or a pathetic never happy loser.

Imagine being so pissed off and grouchy about throughout this era of Chiefs football. His life must really REALLY suck

He can't be any dumber than you

I forgive you because I know that you are really angry at Sky and not me.

While Moores production is disappointing it is not unexpected. Next year is when he can be evaluated properly.

Skyy looked good in camp, but then struggled with punts and ran a wrong route, causing an interception. I hope he gets another chance this year, I want to see him get more reps.

I get your point but try to convince Taub of that after having Hester in Chicago.;)

Hardman out, Juju misses over half the game, and he still can’t get anything going? It’s not going to happen. It would take a Chargers like injury situation at WR for him to get some action, and even then Mahomes is probably just going to force the ball to all of the TEs and RBs over Skyy.

I get it, you don't rate him. Look, most people here would've taken Pickens and not traded back. But I think the time to call this is waaaay past this point.

If you're saying it just won't happen this year. Yeah, maybe you're right, he's probably behind a number of guys for snaps. But who knows. Right now he seems to be struggling to gain Mahomes and the coaches trust in terms of plays where he's the no.1 read - I mean I'm guessing obviously. And obviously the PR stuff has been a disaster. But when I've tried to watch him he seems to have had games where he's had decent separation but just not been targeted.

Maybe his ceiling and floor will be a little lower than I anticipated, but we'll know more at the end of the season, and a LOT more at this point next year.

He's a very sweet person though.

It takes 3 years to get up to speed in this scheme.

Or two weeks if you're a legit talent, I guess.

Toney BLOWING past Moore on the depth chart and immediately making plays in this offense should go ahead and put the 'Andy Reid won't play young skill position players' myth to bed.

Moore simply hasn't forced the issue and made himself a part of the offense. In 2 weeks Toney damn sure has.

It wasn't ever Andy Reid - Moore simple isn't the talent so many of you claimed.

Yeah, I dunno. I wasn't the biggest Moore fan, but hell, even I thought he'd be getting more looks at this point.

Seems it's just a redshirt kind of year I guess.

49ers interception did him in.

At least he's still getting kick return touches

Well, don’t care for the player at all, but seems like if he was ever going to get some action this would be the week. His skill set supposedly compares to what Juju does. Toney is more of a likeness to Hardman and was the likely clear replacement for his touches. Regardless of whether Hardman is back this week or not, Juju will be out. They have a week to gameplan for LA, theoretically this should be the week to get Moore involved. If it doesn’t happen this week I don’t see it happening at all.

Moore dominated at the collegiate level against lesser competition. Few of those guys are going to drop right in at the NFL level unless they are plus route runners. We've seen examples so far this season that show Moore is not yet one.

He isn't going to get separation and be a YAC monster at the NFL level without that... he's not playing in the MAC anymore. I don't have anything to back this up, but he seems to be a guy who will make plays with quickness and agility but isn't possessed with the kind of straight line speed that Hill had. (Not that anyone is, but I mean the sort of speed that allows him to run away from someone vs making moves)

I'm sure the team regarded Moore as a raw talent that will need to grow up, and still does.

Came from the same conference as Eric Fisher, the former #1 overall pick that struggled playing RIGHT tackle before he ever saw the field on the left.

Anybody writing off Moore at this point is just a pessimistic moron.

So maybe the lesson is don’t spend high draft picks on players from that conference? That’s a piss poor excuse. Fisher worked out only because that draft was historically bad and there wasn’t really anyone else worth taking. There were PLENTY of better options available than Moore, both at WR and other positions. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if a player is that raw don’t use a high draft pick on him. DJ had it right in the draft forum thread on Moore.

If that's the case, they made a doubly bad call, IMO.

Miss on a guy because you think he's going to be more game ready than he was and that's one thing. But to take a guy expecting him to have a steep learning curve when he also doesn't demonstrate premier athletic tools? Well lord, what makes that guy a 2nd round talent?

Which was ultimately the point I made from the beginning - it's not that he's a lousy player or someone who has no chance to produce at this level. It's that he simply wasn't a 2nd round caliber prospect. Nor was Cook, IMO. We didn't get our money's worth from those picks.

Both guys are solid prospects who could have good, productive careers. But neither one of them should've been top 100 picks and certainly not a top 60 pick in Moore's case.

{shrug} Onward and upward. We'll get what we get from him. I just found it interesting that Andy Reid's Impossible Scheme doesn't seem to be holding Toney back much...

My tentative opinion of Moore is a slightly more moderate version of this I think.

I definitely agree that the one quantity which will most cause someone to be overdrafted is speed on film. Hardman, etc

Moore just has a thin margin for how he can find success in the NFL. He doesn’t have Toney’s tools to adjust mid-route and make jaw dropping plays by posterizing his opponent. Instead, I think Moore’s routes need to be precise, consistent, and rather “boring” for him to find success. Mahomes needs to always be able to count on where he’s going to be, and him drifting a yard or two any direction can cause a lot of problems since Moore doesn’t have the tools or size to posterize a defender nearby.

As to why Toub is so hellbent on making a guy with his tools into a returner when he’s never done it before, to that I have no idea.

I'm actually fine using a high draft pick on a raw player. But if you're gonna do that, you need premium upside from that player.

Moore doesn't have it. This is a guy who's peak is as a complementary player and who, ideally, is more of a 3rd WR on a strong offense.

You don't take THAT kind of player if he's raw, no. And frankly, I think that's where the Chiefs truly missed. I don't think they ever expected him to be this raw. Nor do I think his supporters expected it. They're simply rationalizing a pick that hasn't worked out thus far.

The issue I have is just that he was a 2nd rounder. We seem to do really well hitting on non impactful position type guys in the 2nd/3rd ish rounds, but damn we need to hit on some skill guys.

As we talked all thru the trade deadline about pass rushers, LT's etc. Yeah, sure they can be found in those spots. But so far, it doesn't seem this regime has really hit on any.

skyy's gonna end up being the next DAT isn't he?

There's, what, 34 places between where Toney was picked and where Moore was. That's probably what we're seeing, the difference between an elite talent and a 2nd round one.

I agree that anyone thinking he'd immediately be a standalone WR1 was probably optimistic, and some of us maybe saw more in him than he's shown. But man, as a late 2nd pick I'm still hopeful.

He's obviously not going to be a difference maker this year, and next year we'll have to see how crowded the room is. But I think he can be better than you're expecting albeit worse than I was. I mean, we both thought Christian Watson was average and he looked pretty good the last game.

The Chiefs do have a long history of drafting skill position guys who only turn into gadget players. (and probably only ever projected to be gadget players)

I would have gone elsewhere too. But again writing him off now is just foolish. There are people in this thread that actually think the Moore we're seeing now is all we're ever going to see. That's asinine.

This isn’t the 2021 Chiefs. Demarcus Robinson and Byron Pringle are no higher on the depth chart than Skyy if they are on this team right now.

Juju and MVS are the top 2. That a given. Mecole is the seasoned vet who gets the nod as the gadget/speedster. Justin Watson is a vet that took time of his own to learn the league and is actually a very good complimentary receiver that Patrick talked up before camp.

And now they trade for an insanely talented former 1st rd pick that only fell to 20 bc he was in the same draft as Chase, Waddle and Smith.

This place has zero patience for any player. My God.

I get it though. I was sad watching my favorite player in the draft (Sam Williams) beat Aaron Rodgers up yesterday, but that doesn’t mean Skyy is a bust.

Some players take time and get better as they get more experience. Noah Gray is example numero uno.

I think the argument is....maybe don't take the guys that need that much time and experience in the 2nd round? I mean, "Noah Gray is example numero uno". Well yeah, he was a 5th round pick.

Especially one that profiles as more of a slot only type guy?

It's the difference between an elite talent and a 3rd round one.

2nd round talents do more than Skyy Moore is doing. Alec Pierce was a 2nd round talent, IMO.

We reached - shit happens. It was a wholly unforced error, IMO.

Yeah, he could still end up good, this year may just be an up to speed kind of year. That's ok for where we are at the WR spot at the moment.

And that would be a huge miss if so, because Skyy was drafted in the 2nd, rather than the 4th round.

Comparing Skyy to our last WR drafted in round 2, Hardman looked much better, in every way, at the same point in his career.

It's early yet, and Skyy still could turn into a good player, but thus far he sure looks unimpressive.

I truly see no basis for this argument at all.

I mean Byron Pringle and DeMarcus Robinson pushed themselves past Mecole Hardman on the depth chart. Pringle in particular.

Moore hasn't so much as kept his spot ahead of Justin Watson. He's certainly not ahead of Hardman whereas Pringle and Robinson were.

That's not something you hand-waive from a top 60 pick. This wasn't Noah Gray. Right now Moore has been the least productive WR taken in the first two rounds. He's been less producitve than guys like David Bell, Romeo Doubs and even Khalil Shakir who were taken after him (and Shakir has a tougher depth chart in front of him).

Be patient - fine. But to just continue to say "oh, well this should've been expected" is flat wrong. This is far less than you'd expect from a guy taken at 54. He's not forcing himself into the offense and his biggest contributions are typically mistakes.

That isn't par for the course for a 2nd round pick.

Can't disagree with this.

Hardman was also overdrafted, also in the shadow of the possibility of losing Hill.

Staylor can pipe in with his nonsense, but i’ll reiterate yet again that Gray was what, a 5th round pick? He’s exceeding expectations based on where he was drafted. Skyy Moore was a top 60 pick, comparing the two is apples to oranges.

It sucks to say this but Skyy looks to be another Conley or Albert Wilson type. A rotational receiver that will likely not crack the starting lineup as a regular.
Look at Pacheco. The guy is a rookie in Andy's system and is already the starter. He has been an impact player from day 1.
Hardman in his rookie year showed flashes and made impact plays. I just don't see it with Moore. Eye test tells me he will be a servicable backup.
Bert can't seem to hit on the WR talent. He overthinks the pick. Imagine Mclaurin and Pickens in this offense over Hardman and Moore.

Drop the mic. The end.

Hardman prolly only needed to beat out Dieter

I don’t think he’ll just never improve, clearly he’ll get better. But it’s about opportunity cost. We passed up the opportunity to likely draft one of a number of other players who would likely be better early on and also have a higher ceiling.

A lot of the talk on draft day was around Pickens' slide, and I know much of that was related to factors other than his on the field ability, and Pickens was taken a few picks ahead of Moore, but... seems like maybe there is some distance between the two players.

This is where I am also. I have the same feeling I had with drafting CEH. The opportunity cost of not drafting Taylor. With Skyy, it's not drafting Pickens. We'll see...

You literally said "If it doesn’t happen this week I don’t see it happening at all."

He's gotta play like Tyler lockett. That's probably his best case scenario.

But man with Juju out for half the game and MVS out for a drive or two, coaches didn't even seem to think about putting him in the game. That's kind of crazy.

I’m talking about this season. If he doesn’t show something this week it’s probably not happening.

I am still hopeful for Skyy but sure seems like he will take a year of seasoning. Yesterday he had 16 snaps compared to Toney's 28 snaps. Watson had 46 and noticed last week we are seeing more of him of late.

I’ll give him somewhat of a pass on that. Now that they have a week to gameplan, now is the time for him to make an impact.

Justin Houston didn't have a single sack until game 12 of his rookie season.

Gimme a break.

There is no hand waiving going. The facts are that this is arguably the deepest WR room in the league right now. And Justin Watson, the 5th WR on the depth chart, had a connection with Patrick from the get go. Patrick himself even said as much when he called Veach and asked about him.

Skyy is a rookie that’s made rookie mistakes. Pretty sure he doesn’t have Patrick’s trust like some veterans. The SF INT is a good example of him losing trust. But he’s not getting more reps. Christian Watson made countless **** up’s and lost his QB’s trust but gained it back last night with experience. We need to see if Skyy will do the same as he gets experience.

Even as a baseline the Chiefs drafted this guy based on team fit and future expectations. He wasn’t drafted to be Tyreek Hill. He was fighting for the 4th WR spot behind MVS, Juju and Hardman the day he stepped foot at camp.

And FFS people need to quit getting pissed at him for his ST’s mistakes. It’s in no way his fault. It’s Toub and Andy’s fault for putting him out there. The kid has zero experience as a returner and they just put him out there bc he had good hands in college. That’s the definition of asinine. And of course people hate the kid for it.

How am I wrong though? Defenders routinely rotate in and out of the lineup, I’d argue it’s easier as a defender to get on the field and make an impact in a limited role. Assuming Juju comes back healthy and everyone else stays in the field, do you honestly see Moore finding room to contribute all of a sudden this late in the season? Watson and Toney are going to continue to see an increase in usage. This week is likely the best chance for Moore to show something. Come late seasons playoff time I just don’t see Mahomes going to someone he doesn’t trust if he hasn’t shown anything by then.

Doesn’t mean Moore can’t start fresh next year, but that just goes back to it probably not being the best usage of drag resources in the 2nd round.

I don't think it's wrong for people to have higher expectations for a 2nd round player though either, fair or not.

What? He had zero snaps until Juju got hurt. Then he had 25% of the snaps (16) the rest of the game.

He even had a catch yesterday. He was the next WR to catch a pass right after Juju left the game. Did you watch the game?

Meh I know the Chiefs are cautious with injuries but I wouldn't be surprised to see JJSS play this week. Apparently he was fine after the game but definitely will have to go through the concussion protocol.

A-****ingmen. It was a stupid argument that we fought against all offseason and Toney came in and just blew that argument to shit.

Hopefully it ****ing dies to never be heard from again.

"There's no hand waiving..."

{proceeds to make excuses for a 2nd round pick playing worse than every other WR taken in the round...}

That 'deepest WR room in the league' was missing it's top 3 options for parts of the game and Moore did nothing. That 'connection' that Justin Watson, a complete JAG and league-wide afterthought, was there for the taking for Moore. That 4th WR spot he was fighting for has turned into the 6th WR spot by mid-season. That's not progress, fellas.

Hardman, who you have never said anything positive about, has kept far more space between himself and Moore than he did between himself and Pringle.

There's just always some justification for a second round pick to be contributing nothing to this offense. And when it's clearly harder now to make the "well the scheme is just so complicated" argument with Toney hitting the ground running, you cite some 'connection' between Mahomes and Watson instead.

Yes, that's absolutely hand-waiving. It's the definition of same. There's always a 'yeah but' with this kid.

Bottom line is that the Chiefs reached on a guy who wasn't ready to contribute and doesn't have the raw tools to present a long-term, high upside play. That's an iffy pick and it's okay to call it such.

Oh well....he sure made himself invisible during that time. Might as well have kept him at 0 snaps.

"But, but, but....Toney is actually talented..."

Yeah, that's kinda the point, laddies.

I don't think Pierce is going to be any better than Moore, at all. He's got the physical traits but he's also getting snaps...because the Colts WR room is full of stiffs. I honestly can't see any way Moore doesn't get more targets if he's up against Parris Campbell.

The guys who come in and blow the doors off in this offence are elite talents like Hill and Toney. We agree Moore aint that. But I think there's every chance he's better than Alec Pierce.

We are a half game past the midpoint of the season.

Not saying that it was a great pick or anything of the sort. But giving up on the season if he doesn't bust out against the Chargers is premature.

It never made sense to begin with. I get Andy's system can be hard to learn but if you show you can be a playmaker, he'll figure out how to get the ball in your hands.

He's getting lapped by Justin Watson.

We continue to ignore what's happening for hypothetical 'competition' when Moore's given no indication that he'd pass anyone on a depth chart right now.

I don't think it's wrong for people to wait and see what happens before they declare him a wasted pick.

At the same time, a pick's 'value' is 4 years. From that point on, he's just another contract on the books.

If you torch 1/4 of that value on a 2nd rounder who's presently sitting 6th on the depth chart, that means something.

Exactly! SHOW SOMETHING and you'll get touches.