Really? When was this? I've never heard that

On Speak for Yourself. Idk of this was in Philly or KC. They were talked nf about what flaws the Steelers exposed on KC

Thanks, didn't know that. Attitude is the best thing Rob could bring outside of knowing the playbook better than anyone except his brother. Doesn't happen unless the players have tuned Sutton out IMO

Looks like Peters tunes him out a couple weeks ago

would have had to have been KC. He wasn't fired from Dallas until after the 2012 season

yeah I agree.

Damn who knows how this defense would be with Rob Tyan as DC

Early on when Reid was first hired I would say not a good fit. He's loud and obnoxious and likes talking to the Media which Reid doesn't like with his coaches unless it is scheduled durning the week when he has to make them available for one interview for the coordinators. He's not his brother that's for sure. But this is a unique situation in that the timing in the next month they have time if they make the move to settle things and let the assistants coach and Rob take over the play calls. Being that there is a couple guys out there that know this exact scheme so well is the only way this is even possible but I just don't know what Reid will do.

Rob Ryan?

I'll just pretend you never said it, I prefer to remember you as you were :D

Bailey would be terrible inside in a 43. But it might not be a bad idea. Houston really looks slow standing up. Jones should be a beast 3tech. If things keep going like this, it's one of those things where you almost have to look at how you can blow it up without getting like 7 new starters.

You could put Roaches inside as well

Sure looks like it. That DPI was as egregious as one I have ever seen, he almost clotheslined the WR while he could have turned and attempted a play on a not so difficult ball. Would he try that with Belichick coaching him?

He's overated. He's obnoxious and a douche. Marcus Peters would love his ass I know that! But if I am Reid and I know i'm probably going to shit can sutton after the season unless he drastically adjusts, I'd do it and hire him as a consultant just to put the heat on Sutton. Pettine would be a better fit with Reid and Gibbs would be the most logical choice if he makes a move. But Rob would be interesting for sure

I'm that frustrated. I don't think firing a coordinator is the way to go during the season especially with a team sitting here at 5-2. I don't panic like this and am normally a voice of reason. But if I try to put myself in Reids shoes I'd be at my wits end.

If he can put some discipline and swag back into this unit, count me IN

Something was up tonight...Raiders had a 2nd and 20 and Sutton sat back and watched Carr complete a 40 yard pass? if there was ever a moment...on a final drive to blitz, that was it.

Everything about this game smells....

What are you trying to say?

That call was just plain incompetence!

Why is Houston continually in coverage! Sutton...

It's the unknowns that we have to wait on. I got to imagine Reid is just fuming over this. He wouldn't admit it publically of course. That's not him to call out players or coaches. But Sutton needs his ass chewed and to realize that they aren't going to be able to find a starting CB to replace Mitchell through trade or whatever. They can't expect Murray to just become Berry and play TE's so well man to man. Same with Sorenson. Bailey and Jones could use a breather a few more snaps a game with Nacho and Jenkins rotating. Passongo needs some ****ing snaps. He's raw yes. But he isn't going to get better with maybe 5 snaps on D so far this year while being active every one of them. The plan with him was most likely having him as the emergency OLB until Tamba or Dadi come back. In the mean time why not get him some reps as an inside rusher or wide 9 rush end in situations where he wouldn't have coverage responsibility? The best time to do that is if they are up 2 scores but they haven't had that much so I can see not trusting him yet. Gaines needs benched/cut but until Nelson is healthy Bob has to adjust. I would say Pettine would be someone who would work best with Bob in a senior defensive assistant role and he did hangout and watch some practices like I mentioned. Either way Sutton needs some help cause he's obviously not adjusting.

On the bright side we will probably have Hali, Nelson, Morse and LDT back vs Donks 11 days from now. That means no more Gaines and maybe Hali has something left and for the o line that means no more Erving. Our run game should be back to where it was.

I'm saying Carr is terrible under pressure and Sutton knows this. He is good when passing from a clean pocket. KC's DBs are struggling...so why rush 3 and give him all day? It was as if KC was in prevent the entire game...

It was a completely backwards-ass way to call a game against this particular QB...hence giving up almost 500 yards. KC had throttled him in the past...

Reid is a company man, a NFL "lifer"...and Sutton has been around. Let's just say they know how things really work.

If Sutton were to be fired who would you want to be the DC? Honestly I would try Gibbs or Al Harris

the Sam in this scheme has coverage responsibilities depending on the call and offensive formation. The other OLB, the Rush, does as well. Especially when everyone else is in man coverage. You don't just let the back or TE run free. It's worse without a dominant CB accross from Peters and without Berry. Also with DJ on his last legs. He needs to play more zone. He doesn't have the players to run his D as aggressive as he wants with the amount of injuries, inexperience, flaws in the safties, etc.

I dont want him to be fired...I dont want him throwing games to keep his job either.

My take is Reid has been "green lighted"...so they are helping keep parity. Be nice to your masters for table scraps later...

all things i'm looking forward to. DJ's decline is a big problem. Ragland is little by little getting comfortable. KPL is as well and hopefully can make some plays in the pass game. Eligwe probably needs to be playing sooner than later as he is the future will on this D. I don;t think they bench DJ but they are going to have to rotate him a bunch to try and keep him fresh because he's hurting this D

way too big of jump for Harris at this time. 3-4 years down the road is a more likely goal once Thomas retires and Harris has been the main DB coach a few years

He led the team with Sorenson with 7 tackles tonight and had a pass deflection. Not really a decline

Doesn’t Gibbs have DC experience

Terrance Mitchell had a bunch of tackles, does that mean he had a great game too? DJ isn't completely shot but its noticable to anyone with their eyes open. He hasn't consistantly been a wrap up tackler ever but now it is hurting him more when he body tackles. He makes a few plays a game where I get excited that there's the old DJ! but he hasn't really put together complete games. Part of that is they can't get off the field and are constantly playing 70 ****ing snaps. He needs a break more often. KPL has to be ready and gain experience just like Ragland does. Eligwe it wouldn't hurt to get him some reps too if they are up a few scores ever.

Our second rounder has what like 0 snaps?

Gibbs was a LB at Oklahoma then coached there as a GA, LB coach, DC, then head coach. They ran the same 3-4 okie, the same 2gap 3-4 Crennell and the parcells/bellichek guys ran all those years. Gibbs was apart of that the years the Sooners ran it. He was hired by Parcells as a LB coach with Dallas. He ran a 4-3 with the Saints as Payton's DC. Was a DC at Georgia and another SEC/ACC school before going to Dallas I believe. He was Romeo's DC later in the 2012 season once Romeo gave up calling the D. He's fully capable. Whether he want's to call the D is another story.

2-3 on D. Otherwise he just plays FG/PAT block on special teams and has covered a few kickoffs i've seen. And I looked close at the last PAT of the game and I swear I didn't see him on the last one that won the game. ****ing rediculous with his height/long arms. Aside from Jones he has the most potential to block a FG.

Another reason why Dorsey was fired

I don't mind the pick. TK has great athletic ability and get's low like a DL needs too which is difficult for a guy his size. Problem is he is too light. 289 at the combine but he isn't that now. Speaking of the combine look at his on field workouts in LB drills. He was very fluid in his drops and flipping his hips. A freak and I like his future. But he's too light to play in the base D. I think I would like him inside as part of a rotation and lining up wide as well. This year is almost like a redshirt year. He needs a full offseason in an NFL weight room with the right diet. Maybe he was a luxury this team couldn't afford to take with their 2nd round pick. But I like his future. Once Tamba is activated I hope he moves back to DL full time

I'd guess after losing weight he gained before camp he probably is in the 275-280 range after sweating some off in the summer heat of camp. His first year is going to be tough as far as keeping on weight goes. Typical for all rookies

In other news Peters stood for the anthem

this team has no capable LBers to play the 43 and would get destroyed.

The 34 isnt the problem its this stupid nickel/dime package with the 6 defensive backs 50 percent of the game thats an issue.

Turnovers kept this defense out of trouble last year.

This year they aren't forcing as many, and it's showing.

When you actually look up and down the roster, how much defensive talent do we actually have? It may have finally caught up to us. Aside from peters, Houston, and Jones, do we have anyone that rates above "solid"? Sorenson is an overachiever, Gaines is horrible, Ragland is horrible, Logan is a downgrade from Poe, DJ is washed up, Murray is a massive downgrade from Berry, Mitchell is OK but we need Nelson in there.

Andy Reid has loaded his offense with toys. We've ignored the defense for way too long. While I wish we were more versatile on scheme, I think it's a little overblown to think that blitzing more will solve anything. The problem is talent.

I think we are way too reliant on it. I don't think it's stupid by any means.

Denver has 11 to decide which tool they use to stab us in the neck. They won't need more than a few minutes next Friday, but they have 11 days.

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Excellent take..

Why isn't Ramik Wilson playing? Defense fell off a cliff when they started inactivating him. I don't think it's the reason we stink on defense but something has happened

I doubt hali or Nelson are back

Once again you are late to the party. It's Bob Sutton scheme that sucks. Doesn't play his players to their strengths. Like putting Houston in coverage when the game is on the line. He dials up no pressure at all and makes every offfense look like world beaters. You throw in a competent d-cord and most of these problems you speak of magically disappear. I'm not buying the talent bullshit line.

I agree. We no longer have a top tier defense with Berry's injury and DJ's decline, but we shouldn't be a bottom feeder either.

Wrong sir. Scheme does not make up for lack of talent. Why is he dropping more into coverage? Because he gets no pass rush even when bringing 5. You want to bring more, and leave this terrible secondary in solo coverage? The coverage has been terrible, and the TACKLING has been worse. Eric Murray was in position to end the game on a 4th down hitch by Cook, and tackles HIGH, allowing Cook to push come backwards 5 yards for a first. You think Berry does that? Multiple times last night he rushed 4, and Houston/Jones/Ford did nothing. You are crazy if you think its scheme that cost us the game. Get some better talent out there in the secondary and lets see what happens.

Here here :thumb:

Wrong. If your getting beat up and down the field all day long giving up tons of yards you make adjustments and maybe say to your self some quarterbacks will eat your lunch if I give them all day to throw. If you want to protect weak corners you dial up pressure. You can't do that when your d-cord puts your best pass rusher in coverage.

This defense is buried in the silt.

And Sutton is a ****ing moron.

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This is why you need a QB like Mahomes for nights like this. Need 40 points? No problem. Sometimes you have to win a shootout. You can bag on the D all you want but they made two key stops late in the game and gave the MVP...cough...cough...two chances to ice the game. Fail. Mahomes is naturally aggressive and will keep attacking. Even some of Alex's passes to wide open receivers were not good passes. dudes had to reach. Wilson TD was not a good throw and should have been picked, ala Pitt TD last week.

I wish they would but it will not happen. Stuck with Smith and Sutton this whole season.

In the end, Alex tried to "not **** up" his way to a victory, as usual. Whenever you do see him do something to the contrary, like make a play in crunch time, you know in your gut that it is not normal and not probable t happen under playoff pressure. Same movie folks, same movie. The D got ****ed at the end on those calls.

You are such an idiot. Alex played great... 25/36, 342 yds, 3 TDs, 0 INTs... This loss was on the defense you moron... What do you want Alex to go 36/36, 400 yds, 4 TDs, 0 INTs.. Be a little realistic here. Raiders defensive players get paid millions for a reason..

The raiders offensive players get paid millions for a reason too. In fact, Carr is the highest paid player in the NFL. **** you. Did Alex or did Alex not get two chances to ICE a shootout? I will wait...........you idiotic, blind moron! You don't put the game on the defense when you have the so-called MVP and the defense had not been stellar all night, yet somehow that "D" got the ball back for us TWICE at crunch time and the MVP...cough...cough...couldn't seal the deal. That is what a franchise QB is for, to cover for other deficiencies. Stay bling, IDGAF.

I need Alex to come through when the opportunities are there. Failed last week and this week, bottom line. I can't wait until he is gone. This is going to end the way it always does and the Alex apologists will keep making excuse after excuse. Have fun with the inevitable heartbreak in the playoffs.

Starting this feel an awful lot like the 2003 Chiefs

They can't stop anyone unless they get a turnover.

2003 Chiefs don't get you the ball back twice late in the game on the road. Both teams gave up a lot of points and yards, that is modern day football sometimes. You have to will your team to victory and Alex doesn't have that in him.

Yup. And they've had their chances too.

If the D is so ****ing bad, then keep the ball, go up two scores and don't put the game in the hands of said defense.....which somehow gave you TWO ****ING CHANCES to ICE THE GAME!!! Oh, I'm not letting up.


Mr. FAKE ASS MVP. **** ANDY AND ALEX. It all comes down to that in this league.

I'll agree that Andy is a huge problem.

And now Alex has totally given up using his legs to get valuable first downs. He's been hit a few times in the last 2 games so now he will either run out of bounds to avoid a hit or check down to a back who is tightly covered for a 2 yard gain. He is regressing into his self preservation mode. A true MVP fights for those important first downs and finds a way to get them.

He has become a true pocket passer. Fans were screaming for this all the time "quit running!" "Keep your eyes down field, stop scrambling!"

Well, you got what you want. A quarterback who is always looking downfield and very rarely scrambles

This isn't a Bob Sutton problem. It's a player problem.

It's not Sutton's fault that DJ is done and can't move like he used to (God it hurts saying that).
It's not Sutton's fault that Justin Houston can't get pressure on a backup RT.
It's not Sutton's fault that Parker, Mitchell and Sorenson all were right there by Crabtree, knew it was going to be a deep pass, and still couldn't defend it.
It's not Sutton's fault that Peters is a ****ing moron that headlocks guys downfield to give up a 40+ yard DPI for a first and goal.
It's not Sutton's fault that our DB's are in position but not capable of defending a deep pass.

This is a player problem.

When the game is on the line and you need a first down to get within field goal range you have to do what it takes to get the job done. I'm not saying that he should run 15 times a game but he has to pick his spots and get those tough yards.

Yeah, that was the play right there that I was literally asking myself WTF was going on.

He's got Houston, Peters, and Jones on defense, and only Jones is playing well right now. Of course it looks bad.

Sutton has many failings and maybe should be fired, but this roster isn't half as talented as CP thinks it is.

The roster is not talented. Dorsey left is wreck full off preactice squad cast offs because he screwed are cap and couldn't do any better. Dorsey sucked.

If you don't put the chess pieces in the right place it's checkmate my friend.

Holy shit...

Our problem last night was not Alex Smith.

Eh, someone has to account for the QB run

So put Sorensen in that role, and let Houston rush.

That's ****ed.

Correct, a ****ing LB. Houston is paid to rush the QB.

How about it not be our $100 million dollar pass rusher.

I've got this game on DVR. I am happy to watch it again and track what Houston did on every play if that's what CP wants.

**** it. Light it up.

I deleted mine right after the game.

Changes have to be made to this defense. DJ is not the same DJ as old. He's probably a part time player at best. He doesn't need to be on the field as much as he has been. As soon as Nelson is back....Gaines has to go to the bench. Eligwe and KPass need to start seeing more snaps as well.

Our Safeties have no ball skills. What do you want Sutton to do about it?